China's 003 Aircraft Carrier (former 002)

Super Flanker

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US will only help out indirectly by making sure that the PLAN doesn't block any navigational routes or force the PLAN to take longer routes and provide IN with real time intelligence on the whereabouts of the PLAN forces and some weapon supplies.
We need to understand one thing here : Right now US considers China as it's greatest threat and will do anything to suppress it.

Now coming to US supporting India, in my Opinion, they will not support us Militarily in the sense that they will not send a large portion of their fleet. At the very least, we should expect intelligence and weopons aid supplies from US and the west, same what is being done for Ukraine.
 

houde10000

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For a Canadian, your wording seems rather 'interesting'. Are you sure you're a Canadian or are you using a VPN??
I am Canadian. I am happy with China quick rise, Canada won't be one side puppy, as China competes with US, Canadian resource such as fresh water, oil, timber, coal, mine... could sell a much higher price than today. I think Indian also benefit from the same competition, then why we have to intervene it.
 

Blademaster

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No one here is saying that we should ignore the threat, I said that regardless of the magnitude of the threat, we should ensure that we are well prepared to deal with it. To counter new modem threats, we need to invest our money in newer and modern Weopons systems.


Yes this is very well said. In the past I have emphasized upon countering PLAAF in somewhat same way as too, we need to have more air defense systems to form an entire layer of protection on the border against any Chinese misadventure.

Let's wait for Brahmos II (Which Will reportedly have near hypersonic speed). This is the Ashm that we ideally need to deter PLAN.
To make full use of Brahmos, we need more P-8Is. They are the only platform with the long range capability, standoff range, locating and targeting enemy ships, and carrying capability.
 

Blademaster

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We need to understand one thing here : Right now US considers China as it's greatest threat and will do anything to suppress it.

Now coming to US supporting India, in my Opinion, they will not support us Militarily in the sense that they will not send a large portion of their fleet. At the very least, we should expect intelligence and weopons aid supplies from US and the west, same what is being done for Ukraine.
You are basically saying my point in different words.
 

houde10000

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No one here is saying that we should ignore the threat, I said that regardless of the magnitude of the threat, we should ensure that we are well prepared to deal with it. To counter new modem threats, we need to invest our money in newer and modern Weopons systems.


Yes this is very well said. In the past I have emphasized upon countering PLAAF in somewhat same way as too, we need to have more air defense systems to form an entire layer of protection on the border against any Chinese misadventure.

Let's wait for Brahmos II (Which Will reportedly have near hypersonic speed). This is the Ashm that we ideally need to deter PLAN.
Currently, China military budget is 260 B$ over 18T$GDP, Indian is around 70B$ over 3.5T$GDP, there is a big gap, and the gap high potentially will keep enlarge in next decade. Should Indian spend the limited budget on infrastructure first or military first? Chinese military budget is only about 1.4% GDP, Indian has already over 2%, even just catch up with the same percentage, Chinese military budget can reach 360B$, and China has more efficient industry than Indian, I don't think Indian meritocrat is sagacious to antagonize China further as Chinese never count Indian as enemy.
 

Super Flanker

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You are basically saying my point in different words.
My point states that US will at most only provide weopons supplies and intelligence and will not directly intervene in any way as you had said in a post of yours which i had quoted that US would help indirectly.

PS : Maybe I misinterpreted that post of yours! :D
 

Super Flanker

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To make full use of Brahmos, we need more P-8Is. They are the only platform with the long range capability, standoff range, locating and targeting enemy ships, and carrying capability.
Don't stress upon P-8Is too much, P-8Is are mostly designed for Anti Submarine Warfare. What we need ideally is better coastal Radars which can track Chinese vessels from a far distance so that the data can be fed to a Brahmos battery located near the coast and the missile can be aimed at PLAN vessels.

Brahmos + Brahmos II + etc = countering PLAN ships effectively.
 

Blademaster

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Don't stress upon P-8Is too much, P-8Is are mostly designed for Anti Submarine Warfare. What we need ideally is better coastal Radars which can track Chinese vessels from a far distance so that the data can be fed to a Brahmos battery located near the coast and the missile can be aimed at PLAN vessels.

Brahmos + Brahmos II + etc = countering PLAN ships effectively.
Which platforms will carry the Brahmos at sea??
 

Super Flanker

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Which platforms will carry the Brahmos at sea??
All ships in the Indian Navy which can carry and fire brahmos like Talwar class frigates, Shivalik class frigates, Kolkata class destroyers, Visakhapatnam class destroyers etc.
 

Super Flanker

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P-8Is can also be configured for anti shipping roles too.
Yes P-8I can be used in Anti ship role using Harpoon Anti ship missiles but the thing is that P-8Is if send out too far into the sea and close to Chinese vessels will become an easy target to surface to air missiles. P-8I thus should be confined to operate close to the shore where it has support of Indian Assets like ships, aircrafts.

Also we need to build more offshore patrol vessels which have a lot of firepower. Look up project 22160 class patrol ships. You will get what I am trying to say.
 

Blademaster

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P-8is can be escorted and the good thing about the P-8is is that they have long range capabilities and combined with the 300-400km range of Brahmos, they can launch a salve at the perimeter of any PLAN naval group and PLAN would be hard pressed to stop the salvos.
 

Super Flanker

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P-8is can be escorted and the good thing about the P-8is is that they have long range capabilities and combined with the 300-400km range of Brahmos, they can launch a salve at the perimeter of any PLAN naval group and PLAN would be hard pressed to stop the salvos.
Are you trying to imply that we should use Brahmos on P-8I?

This is highly unlikely because US aka Uncle sam will not allow the integration of a Weopon like brahmos on its P-8Is. Not happening. As of now, for Anti-Ship role, P-8Is can carry Harpoon, we should stick to that.

IL-38s of IN can Carry brahmos though BTW but these are relatively old propeller based ASW aircrafts and not upto the technological level of the P-81.
 

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Uncle Sam doesn't have a choice whether we can put Brahmos on or not. If we can figure out how to do that, we will.

We want to be able to mount the Brahmos on P-8I because it gives IN a great standoff attack capability that PLAN cannot match.
 

houde10000

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Uncle Sam doesn't have a choice whether we can put Brahmos on or not. If we can figure out how to do that, we will.

We want to be able to mount the Brahmos on P-8I because it gives IN a great standoff attack capability that PLAN cannot match.
Anti-submarine aircraft mount anti-ship missile to attack PLAN surface fleet? are you serious? What INA's SUK30 use for? it can not carry Brahmos?
 

Blademaster

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Anti-submarine aircraft mount anti-ship missile to attack PLAN surface fleet? are you serious? What INA's SUK30 use for? it can not carry Brahmos?
If you can mount it to a Su-30, you can certainly mount the air version to the underbelly of P-8i or under the wings. Of course they would need to run wind tunnel testing but it would be awesome if it can be done.
 

Corvus Splendens

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If you can mount it to a Su-30, you can certainly mount the air version to the underbelly of P-8i or under the wings. Of course they would need to run wind tunnel testing but it would be awesome if it can be done.
Will the Americans agree to this in the first place ? much less help integrate the missile ?
 

IndianHawk

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I agree with what you say but we should not underestimate the PRC either. Remember, never underestimate your Opponent or else you will regret it.

If a full scale war does happen between India and China and both countries get their navy involved then I would say that it would be a fight only between PLAN and IN. Don't expect US/Japan or anyone else to come to your aid. We have already seen how trustworthy US is as a partner in Afghanistan, Ukraine etc.

Also Pakistan too would definitely get involved in the war so it would not be just PLAN vs IN but rather PA and PLAN vs IN. China can use Pakistan's major ports to deploy it's ships and mount an attack on India along with Pak Navy so that assumption that Chinese navy's ships are too far away from the Indian mainland IMO is wrong.

In a conflict, we will be on our own. I doubt US would help us militarily or any country for that matter.
Just like we can't underestimate plan . Plan can't underestimate us navy and Japan navy. They will always have to have enough ships on East to deal with us and Japan and those ships can't be send to fight india thousand of km away.

Pakistani sea ports are well within range of Indian missiles so they are far more insecure compared to open ocean.

And thirdly Chinese don't have logistics to move ammunition materials equipment and have almost no millitary support base in Indian Ocean without that infrastructure they can't sustain even a small operation against any major nation . As the experts say war is logistics.

US won't help india but it will happily sell arms and equipment on cheaper rates to watch Chinese navy sink . More harpoons more p8i on lease , information exchange. Submarine tracking. Just like they are sabotaging Russia in Ukraine they will do much much more to sabotage China .

Anyway chinese themselves are not planning any naval operation against India in coming decades . If they can't take Taiwan what hope is there that they can fight india 3-4000 km away.

And then there are nukes .
 

houde10000

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Just like we can't underestimate plan . Plan can't underestimate us navy and Japan navy. They will always have to have enough ships on East to deal with us and Japan and those ships can't be send to fight india thousand of km away.

Pakistani sea ports are well within range of Indian missiles so they are far more insecure compared to open ocean.

And thirdly Chinese don't have logistics to move ammunition materials equipment and have almost no millitary support base in Indian Ocean without that infrastructure they can't sustain even a small operation against any major nation . As the experts say war is logistics.

US won't help india but it will happily sell arms and equipment on cheaper rates to watch Chinese navy sink . More harpoons more p8i on lease , information exchange. Submarine tracking. Just like they are sabotaging Russia in Ukraine they will do much much more to sabotage China .

Anyway chinese themselves are not planning any naval operation against India in coming decades . If they can't take Taiwan what hope is there that they can fight india 3-4000 km away.

And then there are nukes .
Question for all Indian, please give an honest answer, thx.
India's Chinese military strategy is DEFESNSIVE or OFFENSIVE? You guys' post all look like India is on active attacking side, I really don't understand your logic, why India is willing to challenge China whenever "Anyway chinese themselves are not planning any naval operation against India in coming decades ." ?
 

IndianHawk

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Question for all Indian, please give an honest answer, thx.
India's Chinese military strategy is DEFESNSIVE or OFFENSIVE? You guys' post all look like India is on active attacking side, I really don't understand your logic, why India is willing to challenge China whenever "Anyway chinese themselves are not planning any naval operation against India in coming decades ." ?
I said chinese can't do naval operation against India. Land border conflict is already underway and galwan has seen blood drawn . So india and China are already in active military conflict. And that will affecte everything else. From trade to international cooperation to alliances.

Specifically talking about naval theatre chinese naval threat is not much for india so competition is more about influencing smaller nations for bases / logistics/ trade etc.
 

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