You can continue living in lalaland if you wish, but in reality, India was ruled for 200 years by a tiny European country. Even India's independence was an accident, which happened because after WWII, Britain no longer had the military might or the financial muscle to run her colonies.
As for France and Russia, India is a customer for their military hardware...nothing more nothing less. So stop living in lalaland and face up to reality.As for France and Russia, India is a customer for their military hardware...nothing more nothing less. India would not last even a single month in a war with either country. A country which after 60 years is still the world's largest weapons importer....who's only achievement is having the largest number of poor people in the world....is in this state because its people and its leaders are devoid of vision, pride, willpower and patriotism.
Indians should realize this reality, and only dream of achieving things which are within their capability (aukat) instead of comparing themselves to great powers like China, Russia or the US.
True, today, for France and the Russian Federation, but not true for the erstwhile USSR.
Moreover, I think India could devastate France, with or without nukes. There is no way France can defeat India.
Known_Unknown is an Indian. He is the person who supported "Sanskrit" as national language in long discussion and on FDI debate with me he ended with Subhratri. May be he is sarcastic or trolling for a change.
I'm going to speculate he is Indian.
Hornets nest? You shook the entire jungle !!
This thread was badly needed! This is far more useful than Chinese/Paki/Islam bashing that we see here, and honestly, one cannot be blamed if he gets bored of this bash-fest.
Seriously? Dude cmon, you know as much as I do that in a war with Pakistan, India only has about 4 to 5 weeks of fighting reserves. And I mean ammunition, spare parts, fuel and other logistics necessary for war. What makes you think we can take on France and Russia in a full fledged war if we can't even beat Pakistan?
You could be wrong, but I won't challenge you on that.
Did you know that during WWII, the Russians took 30 million casualties and still won the war? At the end of the war, the Red Army was larger in manpower and materials than all of the Allied armies COMBINED!
There is no country in this world that can match the resolve of the Russians. Other civilisation shave displayed similar surviving potential, but in the days gone by. This is a glaring example and could not have been possible without (1) Communism and (2) Stalin (call me names any one of you readers, if you want, I don't really care)!
In terms of PPP. It will takes decades or a century for India to match the per capita income, and hence the prosperity of Germans.
PPP is good when it comes to basic items, like rice, wheat, potatoes, but when it comes to cars, missiles, aeroplanes, the prices are more or less the same all over the world. India must aim to match the West in terms of PCI as per exchange rate and
not taking PPP into account.
Russia could barely contain Georgia and did worse in Chechnya. Neither country is capable of facing us.
You rarely make mistakes when commenting on military matters, but I am sorry, you are grossly misinformed. Russia is more than capable of facing India, even if you take away all the nukes that Russia and India have from the equation. It would take the thread off topic, but the way Russia handled Chechnya, is exemplary. India has a lot to learn and is way way behind. Poor example, I'm afraid!
India does not have the wherewithal to block the Malacca Straits. China has over 50 submarines that can sink the Indian Navy if they tried to block Malacca. In addition, China can attack India all across the LoAC. Indian formations all along the Chinese border are defensive in nature and are not meant for offensive action inside Tibet. Logistics is a nightmare on the Indian side of the border, while on the Chinese side, they can easily transport troops and supplies over the Tibetan plateau using their much superior infrastructure.
Besides, what do you think the Gwadar port is for?
You are correct, but have forgotten, than it will be easier to IAF to bomd Tibetan Plateau than for PLAAF to bomb India.
No, you are mistaken. Libya hardly qualifies as a full scale war. France merely sent a couple of squadrons of jets to hit the Libyan forces.
I think you are forgetting the NTC. They did a lot of the ground fighting. Mere air power
does not win a war.
Russia *won* the Georgian conflict, and Chechnya is much more stable than Kashmir.
Very true.
Besides, both these countries don't even have to send troops all the way to India. In the event of a full scale war, either country could vaporize all the major Indian cities using their nuke mounted ICBM's, since India has no missiles that would reach Paris or Moscow.
You could be right, but then how are you so sure?
India is a paper tiger, it's time to acknowledge reality.
I don't think the world saw India that way in 1972, but whatever suits your opinion.
India is a third world hand-me-down country, incapable of indigenous design, development or production. And so will it remain for the forseable future until it eventually breaks up.
Partially agree.
I believe racial homogenization is better than ideological homogenization. Ideologies wither away and die, but a racially homogenous nation becomes and stays a great power through its belief in the greatness of its people, regardless of the ideology guiding them. For example, the Russians were a great power under the Tsars, under the Communists and now under Putin. The same can be said of China (Qing Dynasty, Mao, market oriented current CCP leaders) and the French (Imperial France, Napoleon, Charles De Gaulle).
You talk about racial homogeneity and then cite Russia as an example? The Russian Federation, today, is twice as ethnically diverse as India is. The Soviet Union and pre-communist Russian Empire were thrice as ethnically diverse as India. You have chosen the wrong point to argue on bud!
Here, educate yourself:
The Empire That Was Russia: The Prokudin-Gorskii Photographic Record Recreated (A Library of Congress Exhibition)
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/ethnic.html
Coming to Germany, what about the contribution of the German Jews to the field of science? Their contribution has had far more impact on the 'real' Germans, if we look at WWII only.
ndia was once a great power under Ashoka and the Guptas, but that was a merely flash in the pan. A couple hundred years of global importance amid millenia of enslavement by foreign powers and infighting.
You are underestimating India, but yuo have made some valid points here.
Since someone here said earlier that history repeats itself, the only event we have to look forward to is either the disintegration of the Indian Union or it's enslavement by a foreign power.
And may I speculate that you are an Indian?
???!!!!!!
This statement is fantastically, absurdly ignorant and totally wrong. If you cannot see why, then sorry, I cannot continue this discussion.
Maybe you can look through the pages of history and try to find even *one single* great power which fought almost exclusively with imported armaments. I assure you, you will not find a single one.
I agree for most part.
Indians != Germans.
India's population is more than 12 times that of Germany, and hence by linear progression, even if Indians were as hardworking (productivity per capita) as Germans (which they aren't), as scientifically talented (developed all the super weapons of WWII) as the Germans (which they aren't), and as homogenous (one language, one culture, >95% one ethnicity, and hence fewer internal divisions) as the Germans (which they aren't), it would still take India more than 12x the "years" it took for Germany to recover from WWII.
A better comparison would be China. China was in a much worse state than India when it established its first government in 1949. India had a 2 year headstart over China, yet today China is at least 2 decades ahead of India in terms of infrastructure development, and at least a decade ahead in terms of GDP.
And this is what Indians need to realise instead of blindly defending their country.
Such partiotic pep talk is good to make oneself feel like it would matter if you or other civilians resisted an advancing Chinese army into India, but it really wouldn't matter one bit. Civilians don't have the training, weaponry, knowledge of tactics or organization to resist invading armies. It won't matter if the entire civilian population of Mumbai (16 million or so) or Delhi decided to resist an invading enemy army, all it would result in is a massive civilian massacre and total destruction of both cities with little damage to the enemy.
On the other hand, an armed civilian society like the US can offer *some* minor resistance to an invading army, but all the handguns and shotguns in the world will not stand up to a bloody artillery or tank assault.
Excellent point. I do not give any tupenny stuff about petriotism, or about people giving out certificates of patriotism. I'd rather identify our own fault and you have done an excellent job. We needed a thread like this in a long long time.
Partially agree. Diversity is a curse, not a gift. Most countries developed and industrialized under autocratic rule. 'Unity in diversity' and 'world's biggest democracy' is just Kool Aid.
I second that.
^
The first post was trollish, but I agree with a lot of his assertions.
Why was the Mauryan Empire a 'great power' ?
1. It followed a ruthless foreign policy (Arthashastra)
2. They had a common script and language throughout the Empire (Magadhi Brahmi and Prakrit)
3. They enforced a common culture via Buddhism Evangelism.
India presently has too many nations within our nation.
I second that.
[HR][/HR]
For the comments below, guys, I'm sure y'all could have done better than that, but you're entitled to your opinions:
Sounds more like a
Paki who is extremely frustrated by the decline/destruction of Pakistan and increasing power of India and wants to vent out on internet
Maybe he is Pakistani, maybe Chinese, maybe German, maybe Indian - just counter his points.
I am sure you are a Pakistani or chine nationalist
Maybe he is Pakistani, maybe Chinese, maybe German, maybe Indian - just counter his points.
Give that german some peace man. After all, he is a human too and will be obviously angry with India for not selecting its plane
. I mean who can handle such a selection from a Third world country like India:taunt1::taunt1:
Maybe he is Pakistani, maybe Chinese, maybe German, maybe Indian - just counter his points.