Buddhism in India

[Flying Dagger]

No I think that in India Buddhism was mostly spread among the merchant class (Vaisya). Many of Buddha's disciples were merchants or traders. Whereas Hinduism was practiced by the common folk such as farmers. That may be the reason for the decline of Buddhism as a whole because there was no link to peg the faith with the ground level.

This was opposite to what happened in Sri Lanka, where Buddhism became the common man's religion. It withstood the hardships even after the destruction of the central authority.

Completely agree with you here... In India it was basically followed among merchant class and some elite rulers.

Another factor is there was nothing new to offer philosophically and when they started losing in shastrarthas a common practice among elites/ Brahmins to discuss each other understanding of world through their religion and it's literature.

That literally ended its expansion . Other dynamics like power politics etc always play a part. Gupta Vansh for me along with pratiharas Cholas Pandyas being hindu only solidify the status of Hindu Dharma back at top.

 

[HeinzGud]

There were lots of interventionist models thats why Buddhism prevailed in Lanka. Especially post 1800ad.

Such as???????

 

[HeinzGud]

Logically we are much more sound than any philosophy or ideology that exists anywhere.

Oh I highly doubt that

 

[HeinzGud]

When someone asked Buddha what happens to a person who got nirvana when he dies .. Does he exist or not .. Buddha said if you have been hit by a arrow and you are in pain , what ll you do ? Will you remove the arrow or contemplate who shut the arrow or what kind of metal arrow is made of ? Buddha maintained such non speculative attitude towards metaphysical question and focused more on removal of misery .

Classic evasive maneuver. Despite several slip ups he was able to side step critical problems like these by saying not to think of these sort of questions.

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

Such as???????

Know about the buultjens?

 

[Flying Dagger]

Oh I highly doubt that

For each it's own but by not solely depending on books as a final word for how to live and understand the world we pretty much open up ourselves for the natural spiritual process.

And that is I believe better than any other theory.

 

[LondonParisTokyo]

Such as???????

You don't even know your own history and are now attacking others' history?

 

[Varoon2]

The compelling explanation of the decline of Buddhism- that it was largely followed by merchants and monks, not the mass of people- needs to be propagated fairly widely. There are even reasonably educated people who think "the Buddhists were wiped out". And of course, Khalistanis and Pakistanis use that as an article of faith. There was no genocide or mass slaughter of Buddhists at any time in Indian history, not by Hindus. The single largest killing of Buddhists was by Khalji and his minions, at Nalanda.

 

[Varoon2]

Classic evasive maneuver. Despite several slip ups he was able to side step critical problems like these by saying not to think of these sort of questions.

Buddhism was a pretty enlightened, rational ethic/way of thinking/religion, particularly considering it originated in the 6th century BCE. It certainly did speak of equality, compassion and non-violence( to a high threshold) when most, if not all, of the higher cultures in the world at that time, and for many centuries after that, were advocating and indulging in conquest, blood lust and enslavement, all rationalised by theism!

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

When we say institutions it doesn't mean the practice of Brahmins being the guardian of literature need to be destroyed or the practice of allowing people to conduct and practice on their own need to be interfered.

Hindu Dharma is too complex for such things to work.

But today we need powerful centres who can manage temples, construction , running them at the same time and expand it.

then we need centres which can take up the job if old age shastrarthas with other religious figures.


and also a potent wing to take action.

In short a Trinity with three different functions.

we are only failing where we lack knowledge and brute force. Logically we are much more sound than any philosophy or ideology that exists anywhere.

Dharma prevails because of flow of new ideas like vast rivers. Yes that is very correct.

 

[HeinzGud]

Know about the buultjens?

yeah so?

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

yeah so?

That is why Buddhism prevailed in Lanka. Buddhism was reinvented on ridiculous identity of sinhalese-aryan in Lanka that was manufactured towards this goal.

 

[LurkerBaba]

This was opposite to what happened in Sri Lanka, where Buddhism became the common man's religion. It withstood the hardships even after the destruction of the central authority.

It wasn't. Not just Sri Lanka, even in Japan the common man practices a sketchy mixture of Shinto and Buddhism. The 100% "pure Buddhist" practice is a post-colonial phenomenon led by the likes of Anagarika Dharmapala. It was inspired by protestant Christianity. After all Anagarika was born a Christian.

There are parallels to it in India like the Arya Samaj (Hinduism) or Singh Sabha movement (Sikhism) which were modelled on Abrahamic religions

 

[HeinzGud]

It wasn't. Not just Sri Lanka, even in Japan the common man practices a sketchy mixture of Shinto and Buddhism. The 100% "pure Buddhist" practice is a post-colonial phenomenon led by the likes of Anagarika Dharmapala. It was inspired by protestant Christianity. After all Anagarika was born a Christian.

There are parallels to it in India like the Arya Samaj (Hinduism) or Singh Sabha movement (Sikhism) which were modelled on Abrahamic religions

Dharmapala was a racist bigot. Though he is the father of Buddhist revival.

But I agree with you.. even in Sri Lanka the concepts of earlier folk religions are present in Sinhalese Buddhism.

 

[HeinzGud]

That is why Buddhism prevailed in Lanka. Buddhism was reinvented on ridiculous identity of sinhalese-aryan in Lanka that was manufactured towards this goal.

It has been so for the past 1000 or so years of Chola conquest.

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

It has been so for the past 1000 or so years of Chola conquest.

You have admitted yourself the discussion is over now.

Dharmapala was a racist bigot. Though he is the father of Buddhist revival.

 

[asaffronladoftherisingsun]

But I agree with you.. even in Sri Lanka the concepts of earlier folk religions are present in Sinhalese Buddhism.

There would be of course and many as for example Bengali Brahaman Devta called Janardhan Vajrabahu sailed to Lanka and established independent rule there. There were many infact from mainland BHARATVARSH.

 

[gajapati.]

Classic evasive maneuver. Despite several slip ups he was able to side step critical problems like these by saying not to think of these sort of questions.

Buddha never said he ll disclose secrets of universe . He openly said my goal is to remove Dukha ( pain / suffering ) . The religion is not based on some heaven , God or secrets of universe . Buddha always refuse to answer following 10 questions -

(1) Is the universe eternal?

(2) Is the universe not eternal?

(3) Is the universe finite?

(4) Is the universe infinite?

(5) Are the soul and the body the same?

(6) Are the soul and the body not the same?

(7) Will the enlightened one be reborn after death?

(8) Will the enlightened one not be reborn after death?

(9) Will the enlightened one both be reborn and not be reborn after death?

(10) Will the enlightened one neither be reborn nor not be reborn after death?


In fact Buddha openly admitted his ignorance to his followers . He picked up a fallen leaf from ground and asked his followers do you see those 1000s of leaves in the forest ? If that is knowledge of universe i just hold the amount i am holding .

 

[gajapati.]

Buddha never said he ll disclose secrets of universe . He openly said my goal is to remove Dukha ( pain / suffering ) . The religion is not based on some heaven , God or secrets of universe . Buddha always refuse to answer following 10 questions -

(1) Is the universe eternal?

(2) Is the universe not eternal?

(3) Is the universe finite?

(4) Is the universe infinite?

(5) Are the soul and the body the same?

(6) Are the soul and the body not the same?

(7) Will the enlightened one be reborn after death?

(8) Will the enlightened one not be reborn after death?

(9) Will the enlightened one both be reborn and not be reborn after death?

(10) Will the enlightened one neither be reborn nor not be reborn after death?


In fact Buddha openly admitted his ignorance to his followers . He picked up a fallen leaf from ground and asked his followers do you see those 1000s of leaves in the forest ? If that is knowledge of universe i just hold the amount i am holding .

But Buddhism does not end with Budha . There were many other philosophers / enlightened masters like Nagarjuna who added their interpretation and learnings to Buddhism and attempt to answer their views on reality . Later some metaphysics also entered in some branches .

 

[HeinzGud]

Buddha never said he ll disclose secrets of universe . He openly said my goal is to remove Dukha ( pain / suffering ) . The religion is not based on some heaven , God or secrets of universe . Buddha always refuse to answer following 10 questions -

(1) Is the universe eternal?

(2) Is the universe not eternal?

(3) Is the universe finite?

(4) Is the universe infinite?

(5) Are the soul and the body the same?

(6) Are the soul and the body not the same?

(7) Will the enlightened one be reborn after death?

(8) Will the enlightened one not be reborn after death?

(9) Will the enlightened one both be reborn and not be reborn after death?

(10) Will the enlightened one neither be reborn nor not be reborn after death?


In fact Buddha openly admitted his ignorance to his followers . He picked up a fallen leaf from ground and asked his followers do you see those 1000s of leaves in the forest ? If that is knowledge of universe i just hold the amount i am holding .

That's because he didn't know. He was very good at keeping the unknown a mystery among his followers. But there were some slip ups. One time when asked about how sudden rain occurs he is reported saying that sudden rain occurs due to rain making gods are having sex in the clouds.

He was just another man trying to live a comfy life without responsibilities. He's no different from any other Sadhu of his time. All were bullshitters.