A-50E/I Phalcon vs Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C.

[p2prada]

Any chance Turk's could have secretly provided Paki's with Source Code of FCS and Flight System Software of F-16 so they could integrate Chinese and Brazilian weapons with their MLU F-16

Nope. No chance. The Turks would have paid a lot of money. They won't give it away to anybody. Anyway the US would be pissed and their F-35 plans may go for a toss.

Eriyie linking is possible but I don't ever think Chinese AWACS will be allowed to be linked
most likely linked only to thunder blunder.

Erieye link with F-16 is a 100% possibility. It may have been done years ago.

A Link 16 on ZDK-03 and JF-17 is a possibility, but I don't think the US will be the problem for them, rather integration would pose the biggest problem. Link 16 on ZDK-03 can be incorporated by the Italians as well. Turkey is simply a lot closer to PAF. It all depends on how comfortable China is in allowing Italy or Turkey to handle their systems.

I have no reason to see why the US won't allow it if Turkey or Italy is involved. Anyway the real advantage is if the JF-17 is integrated with Erieye rather than the F-16 being networked with ZDK-03. Saab won't create problems for such a deal. Heck, they may offer a different Link 16 equivalent system for the entire PAF. So, there may not be a US in the picture at all. Like I said, technology is the hurdle, not politics. In Pak's case, finances too.

During any war with Pak, the first question wouldn't be whether the Chinese and American systems are inter-networked, the first question would be on how long the AEWs would survive in a LRAAM environment. Afterall PAF is against an aircraft which was designed to shoot down bombers and AWACS belonging to NATO in a much more dangerous threat evironment. PAF is a much smaller name in front of NATO. PAF aircraft are far inferior to what NATO can bring too. At the same time, our aircraft are better than what even the Russians operate.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

These AWACS don't stand a chance against KH-31 or Novators or any
Python 5 LRAAM we may acquire in the future.

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3194

However there have also been industry rumors that the Indian Air Force is interested in acquiring the Israeli Python 5 missile, this however is yet to be confirmed from official sources. The Python 5 is currently the most capable short-range AAM in Israel's inventory. It has BVR (beyond visual range), LOAL (lock-on after launch), and all-aspect, all-direction (including backward) attack capability. The missile has an advanced electro-optical imaging seeker that scans the target area for hostile aircraft, then locks-on for terminal chase.

http://nosint.blogspot.com/2007/05/air-forces-air-to-air-missiles-lraam.html

Air Force's Air To Air Missiles - LRAAM, Python 5 - Industry Rumors

 

[sayareakd]

SAAB Awacs, blind spot would be exploited by IAF, that is for sure. Even if it has 20 escots i dont think they will save Awacs, we have trump card armed and ready.
Btw read that they will send the damaged Awac to SAAB.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

SAAB Awacs, blind spot would be exploited by IAF, that is for sure. Even if it has 20 escots i dont think they will save Awacs, we have trump card armed and ready.
Btw read that they will send the damaged Awac to SAAB.

This could also be used:

India places order for Electronic Warfare system with a Canadian company


Toronto: In a bid to strengthen its Electronic Warfare (EW) system, Bangalore-based Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) has placed an order with a Canadian company for supply of high tech electronic equipment.

DARE has placed the order, worth USD 3-4 million, to Montreal-based Ultra Electronics TCS to supply a shelter-based, mobile simulator system including an integrated antenna array and Ultra EAGLE 0.5 40 GHZ ELINT receiver.

"We are very pleased to announce this award and anticipate follow-on business, given the growing demand for both EW and tactical communications equipment in India.

"Ultra TCS's EW systems are ideal for markets requiring state-of-the-art, competitively priced equipment," said Iwan Jemczyk, President of Ultra Electronics TCS, said in a statement.

The complete system would be used in a test environment to evaluate aircraft EW radar capability and provide an opportunity for pilots to assess the equipment's functionality, specifically the effectiveness of countermeasure techniques.

The EW system would be integrated at Ultra TCS facility in Ottawa and then shipped to the DARE facility in Bangalore in late 2013.

Ultra Electronics, TCS, part of the Ultra Electronics group, is a global leader in tactical communication systems, including high-capacity radio communications and electronic warfare (EW) systems.

Ultra TCS supplies dependable, reliable and powerful communications equipment for tactical military and defence system applications.

 

[sayareakd]

how much time it will take for our fighter to reach 200 km and fire BVR at Awac ?

 

[p2prada]

These AWACS don't stand a chance against KH-31 or Novators or any
Python 5 LRAAM we may acquire in the future.

Air Force's Air To Air Missiles - LRAAM, Python 5 - Industry Rumors | India Defence

However there have also been industry rumors that the Indian Air Force is interested in acquiring the Israeli Python 5 missile, this however is yet to be confirmed from official sources. The Python 5 is currently the most capable short-range AAM in Israel's inventory. It has BVR (beyond visual range), LOAL (lock-on after launch), and all-aspect, all-direction (including backward) attack capability. The missile has an advanced electro-optical imaging seeker that scans the target area for hostile aircraft, then locks-on for terminal chase.

Naval Open Source INTelligence: Air Force's Air To Air Missiles - LRAAM, Python 5 - Industry Rumors

Air Force's Air To Air Missiles - LRAAM, Python 5 - Industry Rumors

The article is talking of the Python V as a separate development to the LRAAM. However neither of the deals are happening. This article is from 2007.

Python V is a WVR missile with a small range. There are two models of the Astra being developed, one for the LCA with a range of 70-80Km and a Astra 2 with a range of 110-140Km(depends) for MKI. The Brazil-SA LRAAM falls short of Astra if range is considered.

Russia is developing a 110Km RVV-SD and 200Km RVV-BD for IAF and export. This is apart from Novator's K-100 with a range of 300Km and 400Km(with additional boosters).

So, these are the only developments going on that we know about. A2A missiles for PAKFA would be different. Meteor with Rafales are obvious.

Other than that we have purchased RVV-AE(R-77), R-27, Mica and Derby for different platforms. So, we have exercised 10 different BVR options(counting K-100 and not counting the ones for PAKFA), ranging from 50Km, 110Km, 200Km and 400Km. Probably the highest considered by any air force in the world.

There is a possibility of seeing Aim-120s on Jaguars too, but that is more for WVR capability than BVR because of the lack of a radar. The MKIs and Phalcons radars are always available though.

If we like the Israeli Stunner based AAM then we will have, the most diverse BVR inventory the world has ever seen. Maybe 15 options if we consider 2 or 3 missiles for PAKFA too. Stunner is based on hit to kill unlike other AAMs.

SAAB Awacs, blind spot would be exploited by IAF, that is for sure. Even if it has 20 escots i dont think they will save Awacs, we have trump card armed and ready.
Btw read that they will send the damaged Awac to SAAB.

It is not such a large drawback as it is assumed. A full 360 degree capability is not necessary. Even Phalcons don't have to work at 360deg. All the extra power can be channeled to specific parts of the array for better capability.

 

[p2prada]

This could also be used:

India places order for Electronic Warfare system with a Canadian company

It is worthless in an operational PoV. It is only a simulator for DARE to test their electronic equipment. Has nothing to do with actual warfighting.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

It is worthless in an operational PoV. It is only a simulator for DARE to test their electronic equipment. Has nothing to do with actual warfighting.

"We are very pleased to announce this award and anticipate follow-on business,

There are more things that maybe bought or possible joint development of future systems.

 

[Drsomnath999]

1st of all thanks saya for ur effort.

but mate to be fair enough comparing phalcon with ericeye is like comparing apple with orange ,thats the reason i was not interested to make a thread on it as requested by u in chatbox .

Well fair comparsion would be to compare india's indigenoius EMB awacs with swiss ericeye .& good news is india has just recieved it's 1st indigenious awacs.
India receives its first EMB-145 AEW&C aircraft

CHEERS

 

[sayareakd]

@Doc, this thread is for our friends across the border.

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

What happened to two more A-50 & Phalcon radars which India was going to purchase from Russia & Israel respectively? Any latest news?

 

[farhan_9909]

so far 8 awacs were on order.7 still
1 destroyed

Onwards 2014-15 PAF might order even more and could be the kj-2000 aswell

Beside this New NESCOM electronics complex is being made which would have the capability to produce even the T/R modules of ZDK-03 radar.
Since ZDK-03 was a jv.We can manufacture the AESA variant of ZDK-03 at home.
And kickoff a long range ground radar aswell as a next generation Awacs radar development programs

 

[farhan_9909]

so far 8 awacs were on order.7 still
1 destroyed

Onwards 2014-15 PAF might order even more and could be the kj-2000 aswell

Beside this New NESCOM electronics complex is being made which would have the capability to produce even the T/R modules of ZDK-03 radar.
Since ZDK-03 was a jv.We can manufacture the AESA variant of ZDK-03 at home.
And kickoff a long range ground radar aswell as a next generation Awacs radar development programs

 

[gadeshi]

Beside this New NESCOM electronics complex is being made which would have the capability to produce even the T/R modules of ZDK-03 radar.
Since ZDK-03 was a jv.We can manufacture the AESA variant of ZDK-03 at home.
And kickoff a long range ground radar aswell as a next generation Awacs radar development programs

You cannot manufacture AESA at home - Pakistan doesn't have technologies and knowledge to produce TRMs, mission computers and radar software.
Civillian market processors and other electronics have much simplified and rather less sophisticated technologies than military-grade avionics.
Actually, the technologies are completely different - as in materials, as in fundamental principals as well. So, if you think that if you can produce civillian processor (but Pakistan cannot even this) then you can produce TRMs - you are an idiot.

 

[p2prada]

so far 8 awacs were on order.7 still
1 destroyed

Onwards 2014-15 PAF might order even more and could be the kj-2000 aswell

Beside this New NESCOM electronics complex is being made which would have the capability to produce even the T/R modules of ZDK-03 radar.
Since ZDK-03 was a jv.We can manufacture the AESA variant of ZDK-03 at home.
And kickoff a long range ground radar aswell as a next generation Awacs radar development programs

It is yet to be seen whether China will even transfer an AESA version of the ZDK-03, let alone transfer the ToT for it.

KJ-2000 can be a reality only if the Russians decide to make an AEW version of the IL-476, since China does not have spare IL-76 airframes.

 

[farhan_9909]

You cannot manufacture AESA at home - Pakistan doesn't have technologies and knowledge to produce TRMs, mission computers and radar software.
Civillian market processors and other electronics have much simplified and rather less sophisticated technologies than military-grade avionics.
Actually, the technologies are completely different - as in materials, as in fundamental principals as well. So, if you think that if you can produce civillian processor (but Pakistan cannot even this) then you can produce TRMs - you are an idiot.

In the past Many firms in pakistan including CAREpvt used to design the T/R modules and than was sent to private firm in china having the capability of manufacturing them for manufacturing.

over the course of time in 2007 under Nust project,Pakistan made a complete indigenous very short range ground based radar.similar to indian rajindra.a battle field radar..and you know the T/R modules were manufactured locally in pakistan by CAREpvt.

in 2010 The army/ranger bought battlefield radar for lyari operation for a domestic company..now i am into this whether they bought from the same nust developed or any other firm.i am into this.as soon as i find this out..i will post.

Nescom electronics complex is under construction and is being made with millions of dollars.
It would not only have the capability of designing and manufacturing smaller radar t/r modules but even radar of sword fish class...

Nescom electronics complex is almost completed and engineers selection process has already begin.

Other than this the klj-7 is not assembled in karf but rather manufactured

A good read

Adjust it yourself

http:// www . defence . pk /forums /pakistan-defence-industry/245992-radar-related-developments-pakistan.html

 

[farhan_9909]

It is yet to be seen whether China will even transfer an AESA version of the ZDK-03, let alone transfer the ToT for it.

KJ-2000 can be a reality only if the Russians decide to make an AEW version of the IL-476, since China does not have spare IL-76 airframes.

Funds are the reason.before getting more AESA variant of zdk-03 and Possibly a new ZDK-04.

we need to upgrade the zdk-03 to AESA.

But china does has a project of indigenous transport aircraft in the lines of c-17 in development

 

[p2prada]

Funds are the reason.before getting more AESA variant of zdk-03 and Possibly a new ZDK-04.

we need to upgrade the zdk-03 to AESA.

You can't upgrade the slotted array to an AESA. It is cheaper to buy a new aircraft instead.

Slotted array,

The size of the domes are different for both, which would mean major changes in CG. So you can't simply attach and reattach. That won't make sense either.

But china does has a project of indigenous transport aircraft in the lines of c-17 in development

Yes, the Y-20. But it had its first flight only recently. It will be years before an AEW version is ready, and PLAAF/PLAN will want its requirements filled first before it is ready for export. So you are looking at deliveries after 2020, that's when FGFA will show up with more capability than a regular AEW&C.

 

[gadeshi]

@farhan, Pakistani forums is not a valid info source, don't you think?
BTW, those ground-based radar is students-made PESA prototype according to your source
And at least 70% of enlisted projects have failed or suffering fundamental difficulties according to those forum.

Name at least one company/plant who produces vertical-integrated GaAs or GaN nano-structured monocrystals and capable of apply nano-sized layered covers on them.
Than I will believe that Pakistan can produce TRMs for AESA. Write anything you want on any forum, but these technologies are crucial for any AESA manufacturing. You cannot produce them or even make a prototypes without those technologies posession. Understood?

BTW, even Chinese don't posess it (at least none of them are in production status in quantity and quality both).

 

[Bornubus]

so you see that IL 76 has almost 10 times the capacity to lift then Saab. Now imagine what electronics and sensors are inside IL 76 to fry enemy AWACs electronics

But what about A2A Missile, Pakis have AIM 120C coupled with their AWACS.