Y20 Chinese Transport Aircraft

Discussion in 'China' started by badguy2000, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    As usual to me it seems a copy from Russian IL 76... It looks ugly too straight from the era of 1970's...
     
  2. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    One more video about the maiden flight, CPC seems to take a different attitude towards PR work in the project of Y20 this time. China Central Television reported the maiden flight at the very beginning, and now more images and videos are being published by the authority.

    国产大型运输机运-20首飞成功 新闻特写:中国大运 为你骄傲-高清观看-腾讯视频

    Good for the people who have been working in the project, their efforts and contributions should be known to the public and appreciated by the whole country.
     
  3. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Blame the Russians for designing an ugly precedent IL76.
     
  4. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    so it vindicate my observations... I never said IL76 looks ugly...
     
  5. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    According to you, Y20 is a copy of IL76, if the original isn't ugly, how could the copy be ugly unless there are differences between the two?
     
  6. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    Madam, I thought you to be cleverer among the Chinese here...You messed it up by copying from others !!
     
  7. cir

    cir Senior Member Senior Member

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  8. cir

    cir Senior Member Senior Member

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    CAC:J-20 and J-XX
    SAC:J-21 and J-XX
    XAC:Y-20 and H-20

    :thumb::cool2:
     
  9. aramsogo

    aramsogo Regular Member

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    The Indian aerospace product development matrix is much simpler ->

    HAL (circa 1983): LCA
    HAL (2013): LCA
    HAL (2033): LCA
    HAL (2???): LCA
     
  10. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    Very true!! No illegal copying & stealing from Russians and calling them as theirs...
     
  11. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    this thread is about Y-20 and how chinese copy il76 and c17.....tejas shouldnt be talked about........

    and how little you know about india.........not just LCA....there will be LCA mkII mkIII mkIV in the future..........not problem to beat j-20.......no need for t-50.....
     
  12. orangegardener

    orangegardener New Member

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    So many sour grapes from Indian members.
     
  13. satish007

    satish007 Senior Member Senior Member

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    We hire them before they die,good pay,and our young pick up very fast and will roll out the plane very very cheaply.
    Money matter,money call the shots.
    Btw,we also consulted some smart indan,they have operated IL76MD more than 30 years 0 incident and piloting c17. No country has that knowledge.
     
  14. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    then it is not a copy!

    Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
     
  15. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    We are never short of such things at DFI recently.

    Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
     
  16. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    HAL(2???):LCA=HAL (3013):LCA

    but this is not the problem of HAL guys.the name itself says late combat aircraft or last chance aircraft
    hence unless and untill the name is changed it will remain in development atleast in this century
     
  17. Apollyon

    Apollyon Führer Senior Member

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    When your spies from Boeing gifting you C-17 secrets (although got caught) and Ukranians at your helm to develop you your heavy lifter with Russian last generation Engines so CCP could carry on with their propaganda of "China Strong" while throwing common Chinese inside Labor Camps, very well done Sir.

    I hope all of you don't get thrown in Laogai camps for replying on a Indian Forum, Sir.
     
  18. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    When you have to resort to labour camps in a thread about heavy transport , then you know you are OT by a looooooong shot.

    Sour grape much? If so at least get the facts right. CHina bought Dk-30s. Hardly the "last generation engines" ROFL.

    I dont know about the part of "China strong". But at least they are going forward with their own projects. Unlike the "indian best satelittes" threads.:taunt:
     
  19. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Maiden test flight of the Y-20, China's first heavy military transport plane, a meaningful step in countrys' ability to project air power - China Real Time Report - WSJ

    By Andrew Erickson and Gabe Collins

    Escorted by a J-15 fighter and numbered “20001,” China’s domestically-produced Y-20 transport aircraft successfully completed its maiden flight on Jan. 26 at the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF)’s China Flight Test Establishment in Sha’anxi province, remaining airborne for an hour , according to state-run media reports. In an example of selective transparency to boost pride at home and credibility abroad, domestic media were rapidly notified of the Y-20’s test flight (see CCTV broadcast here and here) and Chinese military enthusiasts are energetically welcoming the news.


    CNTV
    A screenshot taken from the website of Chinese state broadcaster China Central Television shows China’s new military transport carrier, the Y-20, on its maiden test flight.
    “First we heard about the test flight of the J-31 stealth fighter jet, then the landing and takeoff of the J-15 on our aircraft carrier, and now we embrace the birth of the Y-20,” the state-run English-language China Daily quoted Qu Renming, a white-collar worker in Beijing, as saying. “The only concern for military fans is when can the Y-20 use our domestically developed engine and enter into service.”

    The Y-20’s first flight suggests that China is on the way to joining the U.S., Russia and Ukraine as the fourth nation to independently develop and fly a heavy military transport aircraft. Its development represents a meaningful step toward China being able to develop a more robust ability to project aerial power, both in the form of air transport and aerial refueling. It also offers a large airframe that could eventually provide a foundation for building airborne early warning aircraft and large air tankers capable of supporting long-range strike fighters. Finally, the Y-20 transport could eventually be exported to friendly nations, and perhaps beyond if AVIC can build and sell it for less than the cost of competitors such as the Russian IL-76. The PLAAF currently operates 20 IL-76s, and has reportedly ordered 30 more.

    Aircraft Design and Construction Advances

    The Y-20 is the third example of a new trend in which AVIC has moved beyond cloning and copying and can now successfully meld aspects of multiple foreign airframes (and technical advice) with domestic designs and improved, domestically-manufactured systems. The J-20 and J-31 were the first two Chinese-made aircraft to make this leap, and now the Y-20 has done so as well.

    The Y-20 differs clearly from other heavy transport aircraft like Russia’s Il-76, America’s C-5 and C-17, and Europe’s A400M in fuselage shape, wheels and flap actuators. PLA experts quoted in a story appearing on the English-language website of the People’s Daily claim that the Y-20 outperforms Russia’s Il-76 and say it boasts “Chinese characteristics in supercritical airfoils, integrated avionics, cabin equipment, composite materials and their processing.” The experts say the plane has three aircrew, a 15-meter height and 47-meter fuselage length, a 66-ton maximum load capacity and a maximum takeoff weight of just over 200 tons. Its capacious cargo hold can “carry the vast majority of combat and support vehicles of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA),” including the PLA’s heaviest tank, the 58-ton Type-99A2. It can transport them even to underdeveloped “airstrips” thanks to its “strong adaptability to [substandard] take-off and landing fields.” This suggests the PLA has carefully noted the ability of the U.S. C-17 to land on rough dirt airstrips and serve forward combat bases in Afghanistan.

    Interestingly, two researchers at China Aerodynamics Research and Development Center asserted in 2007 that a “large transport aircraft” with approximately these specifications would have “performance superior to [that of the] IL-76.” Coupled with Xinhua’s 2008 announcement that one-third of China’s initial 60 billion yuan ($9.6 billion) investment in its state-prioritized large aircraft program would be for military transport aircraft, and a CCTV-7 report that the Y-20 would be unveiled by the end of 2009, this suggests that the Y-20’s development was long-planned. Certainly it is a long-term program.

    “If everything goes well, the Y-20 will have to undergo a minimum-three-year-long flight test and a minimum-five-year-long comprehensive test period,” the PLA experts cited on the People’s Daily website state. “Therefore, 2017 is the earliest date by which the PLA Air Force will have home-made large transport aircraft.” This would suggest that the 2017-20 period will see the PLA potentially taking simultaneous large-scale deliveries of the Y-20, as well as fighter jets like the J-20, and possibly the J-31, the J-15 and J-16.



    Driving Additional Jet Engine Investment

    The Y-20’s capabilities are reportedly close to those of Russia’s Il-476, with one important exception: The Y-20’s Russian D-30KP2 engines lack the thrust and efficiency of the Il-476’s PS-90A76 turbofans. In a sign that even China’s aviation Achilles’ heel – engines – is now receiving major resources, China is developing a high-thrust turbofan called the WS-20 to fill this role as part of a major aeroengine resource and technology push. While progress will likely take time, reports suggest China could invest up to 300 billion yuan ($49 billion) in jet engine development by 2035. Acquisition of foreign technology and breakthroughs in recruiting foreign experts could help accelerate China’s jet engine development.

    Financial considerations and a belief that Chinese jet engine makers are behind the Russian technical curve will likely motivate Russia to permit transfers of additional jet engines over the next 2-3 years despite the significant risk AVIC will reverse engineer key portions, if not the entire powerplant. Meanwhile, Ukrainian engineers are already readily available, and their Russian counterparts may become increasingly so as Russia moves its aviation contractor headquarters from prime city real estate near aging engineers’ apartments to Zhukovsky Airfield, which lies 45 km from downtown Moscow and is a long commute even under the best of circumstances given the capital’s congested roads.

    Future Directions

    The last two years have yielded a growing body of evidence that China is enjoying significant success in simultaneously managing multiple advanced aircraft programs. At present, no other nation can—or does—allocate so many personnel and financial resources so rapidly toward achieving national strategic goals.

    That said, the Chinese aerospace sector also has a number of key weaknesses that will be exposed if continuing budget increases fail to yield commensurate technical breakthroughs in critical unproven areas, including aeroengines, electronics and avionics.

    So far, by exploiting open source study, commercial joint ventures with tech transfer and industrial espionage, China has been able to leapfrog and save costs and time as it closes its technical gap with advanced aerospace power such as the U.S., Russia and certain European countries.

    Yet the closer China comes in capability to other advanced aviation powers, the less of a follower’s advantage it will have, raising questions about how much Chinese aerospace expenditures will need to rise in order to have a chance of creating a comprehensive global aerospace power, as opposed to one that makes snazzy airframes, but struggles with critical subsystems such as the engines and electronics. To boot, getting the hardware right is only part of the challenge, since being able to employ it effectively will require millions of man-hours invested in maintenance, training and learning how to integrate platforms with each other to operate in a way that the whole is more powerful than the sum of the parts.

    In short, the Y-20 is a point of national pride and a substantial breakthrough for China’s large aircraft programs, but to begin thinking of it as a true military advancement, we need to see a Y-20 undertake a long flight with heavy cargo, then turn around and do the same thing on a return flight. Proof of an aircraft’s reliability and effectiveness lies in real objectives successfully achieved under real world conditions. A long and interesting road lies ahead for the Y-20.
     
    huaxia rox likes this.
  20. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    How can it match the IL-476 when it still runs on IL-76 engines? The major difference of the 476 over the 76 are the engines! :rofl:
     

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