who will win the fighter competition

[patriots]

Guys you all know about fighter jet competition...and hope this will happen soon.................

 

[Armand2REP]

France was just willing to go against an EU ruling on palm oil to sell 18 Rafale to Malaysia. Considering we are talking about important strategic nuclear deals with India among other defence related matters I think Macron will not let the biggest prize slip out of his fingers. This was planned all along to get concessions out of France as IAF wants more Rafale. Macron has shown he is willing to play ball even for small orders.

 

[nirranj]

Su35 considering we already build Su30 MKIs in India. So the initial setup costs will be low for mass production in India. Also it has been widely used by Russians in Syria. This should be the most economical addition to IAF.

 

[patriots]

Su35 considering we already build Su30 MKIs in India. So the initial setup costs will be low for mass production in India. Also it has been widely used by Russians in Syria. This should be the most economical addition to IAF.

su 35 come s in heavy category...we need medium weight ..jets ...

 

[Raweg]

Buy 2 squadrons of all except eurofighter coz they dont have any good offer

 

[Otmshank7]

France was just willing to go against an EU ruling on palm oil to sell 18 Rafale to Malaysia. Considering we are talking about important strategic nuclear deals with India among other defence related matters I think Macron will not let the biggest prize slip out of his fingers. This was planned all along to get concessions out of France as IAF wants more Rafale. Macron has shown he is willing to play ball even for small orders.

sorry off topic but

Do you think France and India could ever come close to reaching Russia+india's strategic relationship?

Aircraft carrier, missile and submarine tech in the coming years if a fighter deal goes peachy?

 

[Mikesingh]

Boeing to manufacture F/A-18 with HAL, MDS in India

Aerospace major Boeing on Thursday announced a partnership with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and Mahindra Defence Systems (MDS) to manufacture its carrier and land based F/A-18 Super Hornet multi-role fighter aircraft in India.

According to the firm, the future production with Indian partners will involve maximising indigenous content and producing the F/A-18 in India for its armed forces.

"Boeing is excited to team up with India's only company that manufactures combat fighters, HAL, and India's only company that manufactures small commercial airplanes, Mahindra," said Pratyush Kumar, President, Boeing India.

"This partnership brings the best of Indian public and private enterprises together in partnership with the world's largest aerospace company, Boeing, to accelerate a contemporary 21st century ecosystem for aerospace & defence manufacturing in India," he added.

//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/63731848.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


The advantages for manufacturing the F-18 Super Hornet in India are:

1. One type of fighter for both land and carrier based ops.
2. Standardisation of infra, spares, technical training etc.
3. Cost effective.
4. Incorporation of cutting edge tech. (The USAF is incorporating some stealth tech to reduce the RCS by more than 15% by 2019).

Boeing will add Block III capabilities onto the modified aircraft commencing 2019. That package will include conformal fuel tanks, Raytheon APG-63(V)3 radar, Block IV integrated defensive electronic countermeasures and a Block II integrated defensive electronic countermeasures system (IDECM). The Block III F/A-18 will also come equipped with Tactical Targeting Networking Technology (TTNT).

Boeing Image: Super Hornet Block III (background) and Super Hornet Block II

 

[Flame Thrower]

Let's hope for none of the above and wait for LCA MK2 to get ready.

This is April 2018. Within 6 months hangama for 2019 elections will start. I bet Modi will not conclude this deal before elections because opposition will call this as scam and use propaganda to portray Modi is corrupt.

Elections and other stuff will consume entire 2019.

By 2020 we might start hearing about the new purchase.

Structure for unified command might start to take shape by 2020. So rather than just convensing IAF, the vendors will have to deal with tried chiefs or at least the Indian Navy aviation wing.

If we can have first prototype by 2020 and convince that LCA mk2 can takeoff from carrier with meaningful payload then we can throw this tender into dustbin.

Guys I know that this is a very long shot, but not impossible.

Thus I rest my case

 

[Armand2REP]

sorry off topic but

Do you think France and India could ever come close to reaching Russia+india's strategic relationship?

Aircraft carrier, missile and submarine tech in the coming years if a fighter deal goes peachy?

GoI still operates as if Russia is a counter against China as it was during Soviet times. The reality is Russia is arming China to the teeth and will do nothing if war breaks out. Even as French missiles were flying over Russian bases in Tartus Putin did not protect Assad. As Turkey was dismembering the North of the country he did nothing. As his own contractors were slaughtered by the Americans he did nothing. If China attacks India, he will do nothing. GoI hasn't realised this yet but they need to, once they do they can either turn to the US or France. France is the independent choice, the US is the restrictive one with their overzealous export controls and threatening sanctions if you sneeze on them. France has everything India needs including nuke subs and nuke carriers, they just need to ask. GoI would do it if it was cheaper, they still think Russia is the place to get everything for less but as they are finding out Russia is not immune to defence inflation. To buy another MKI is over $77 million a unit now, a Talwar is $775 million, a T-90 Bishma is double the price, everything that was a great deal 10 years ago is now twice as expensive. The US can sell for slightly less because of their economies of scale but it comes with serious handicaps. France is the only country to get the latest tech while keeping your sovereignty in check.

 

[Tactical Frog]

sorry off topic but

Do you think France and India could ever come close to reaching Russia+india's strategic relationship?

Aircraft carrier, missile and submarine tech in the coming years if a fighter deal goes peachy?

Hell yes. #chooseFrance @Yusuf @bengalraider @SajeevJino @abingdonboy

 

[Rahul Singh]

If China attacks India, he will do nothing. GoI hasn't realised this yet but they need to .

What makes you think GOI has not realised it yet?

GOI is already dumping Russian like a hot potato without a bang. Earlier Russia was cheap so was its access to the Indian market. Both have changed already.

Hell, Russian representatives at recently concluded DEFXPO 2018 openly complaint that given Indo-Russia friendship, Russians should not be asked to sell through competitive bidding wrt to P-75I. Did we show any concern? Reportedly our DM did not even take a notice.

About the question why buy T-90 or Krivak or S 400 etc? Well, the short answer is we don't want Russians to turn hostile. Over 65% of our hardware is of Russian origin and we need spares and technical support to maintain them. Besides we need Russian on many forums in the world of diplomacy.

Bottomline is; we will never sever our relations with Russia and not we will sit on anyone's lap. We are going independent. And all those who want to make money for what we need in the process are most welcome.

once they do they can either turn to the US or France........France is the independent choice,

We are not thinking in specific terms only. The security against China is a byproduct of India becoming independent in defence R&D and manufacturing.

So we neither have to turn to US or France or any but us. Something which we have already started doing aggressively.

Hell yes. #chooseFrance @Yusuf @bengalraider @SajeevJino @abingdonboy

If only you are ready to give what we truely need.

 

[Otmshank7]

GoI still operates as if Russia is a counter against China as it was during Soviet times. The reality is Russia is arming China to the teeth and will do nothing if war breaks out. Even as French missiles were flying over Russian bases in Tartus Putin did not protect Assad. As Turkey was dismembering the North of the country he did nothing. As his own contractors were slaughtered by the Americans he did nothing. If China attacks India, he will do nothing. GoI hasn't realised this yet but they need to, once they do they can either turn to the US or France. France is the independent choice, the US is the restrictive one with their overzealous export controls and threatening sanctions if you sneeze on them. France has everything India needs including nuke subs and nuke carriers, they just need to ask. GoI would do it if it was cheaper, they still think Russia is the place to get everything for less but as they are finding out Russia is not immune to defence inflation. To buy another MKI is over $77 million a unit now, a Talwar is $775 million, a T-90 Bishma is double the price, everything that was a great deal 10 years ago is now twice as expensive. The US can sell for slightly less because of their economies of scale but it comes with serious handicaps. France is the only country to get the latest tech while keeping your sovereignty in check.

No offense but if India needs another country to protect its sovereignty then it should just surrender instead of being a Poland in waiting..we've already seen how well that type of thinking worked out with the British in the past.

I was more interested if France would allow access to technology similar to the level Russia has allowed india, not ask it to be some saving grace because that's not how Russia is viewed either.

Not to defend Russia or Putin but assad is still in power and Russia has contributed much more to syria than a few air strikes. They'really much more outside the nato or EU order than France is.

That said India needs to get the best from all channels be it France, Russia, Israel, Us, Japan etc

Do you really feel France would help India build a nuclear aircraft carrier or Sub in the near future if India agreed to its price?

 

[WolfPack86]

It is better that Kalyani defence build Rafale jets rather than Reliance defence limited.

 

[prohumanity]

I will not be surprised if GRIPEN-E is choosen because :
(1) E class is much improved version and fulfills India's requirement.
(2) Sweden is willing to give technology and is becoming a strategic partner of India in Make In India program.
(3) Sweden has maintained non alignment for decades..not a small achievement for a nation of 11 million people.
(4) Many other defense deals plus clean energy deals are on cards with Sweden . Adani group is already making deals with Swedish companies.
As for Rafael, the deal is probably over after India got 36 Rafaels. France is not ready to make Rafael in India. Watch P M Modi who is in Sweden today (on April 16,2018)

 

[WolfPack86]

Gripen E fighter aircraft is good fighter aircraft there is no about it but what if Trump blocks GE 414 engine deal.

 

[Babloo Singh]

In all probability here is what will happen to Rafael in this fighter jet competition.....

They fail to deliver Kaveri as promised = No further order, 2Sqn will be used by Strategic Forces Command

Kaveri Delivered as Promised = 2 More Sqn equipped with Kaveri Engine or 1 Sqn in current Config.

Kaveri Delivered + Help on 120Kn+ K10 = 2-4 Sqn more with Kaveri engine for IAF

Kaveri + K10 + Nuke Reactor + AMCA + GaN Help = 3 Sqn of Rafael M + 4 SQn for IAF + Project 75i...

In simple words it's for Rafael to loose the contest.... if France plays along no other fighter will come in play, we may have joint AMCA & Tejas Mk-II. We may see Tejas MK-II being jointly marketed too....

 

[scatterStorm]

In all probability here is what will happen to Rafael in this fighter jet competition.....

They fail to deliver Kaveri as promised = No further order, 2Sqn will be used by Strategic Forces Command

Kaveri Delivered as Promised = 2 More Sqn equipped with Kaveri Engine or 1 Sqn in current Config.

Kaveri Delivered + Help on 120Kn+ K10 = 2-4 Sqn more with Kaveri engine for IAF

Kaveri + K10 + Nuke Reactor + AMCA + GaN Help = 3 Sqn of Rafael M + 4 SQn for IAF + Project 75i...

In simple words it's for Rafael to loose the contest.... if France plays along no other fighter will come in play, we may have joint AMCA & Tejas Mk-II. We may see Tejas MK-II being jointly marketed too....

Since France will start upgrading Rafales to advance variant soon, they will need money. Hence yes the big possibility is Rafale again to bag the deal.

But IMHO F18 Super duper hornet type with ToT is a good deal. Considering that fighter offers ECM capabilities too. It can be used by both Airforce and Navy and with new CFT tech it's range will be significantly increase, without any external drop tanks it can load few more ammunitions. With this we may also be offered Technology of engines and stealth or Air refueling drones like the MQ25 as India is a market, or could be sold at cheaper price.

The most important thing is F18 Hornet are very reliable and durable jets, they are best know for there heavy duty landing gear and the entire airframe can take the beating like a badass.

The only problem is IAF knows that having multiple type of jets in there arsenal, manufacturing and logistics can be a pain. So they need something to gap fill until we have mainstream fighter class like SU30MKIs. With 3 types of planes to flown in future, namely:

1. Tejas M1 ... MK2 not happening, instead we may jump to AMCA.
2. AMCA (if HAL and ADA can pull this off with Kalyani)
3. SU30MKI upgrades to SU35S standard.

 

[Manish Khan]

From my perspective ,Su-35 may have a big advantage

 

[smestarz]

For? Boxing compettiion at Sub junior level?
How do you relate weight to performance ???

su 35 come s in heavy category...we need medium weight ..jets ...

 

[smestarz]

True but yet, Rafale is found wanting against even Su-30 MKI and so, against Su-35S,.Rafale would be cannon fodder. So its between cannon fodder like Rafale or Su-35S which can make a stalemate vs the Chinese Su-35S and well, since India would be ordering more. There are better chances for India getting on top

GoI still operates as if Russia is a counter against China as it was during Soviet times. The reality is Russia is arming China to the teeth and will do nothing if war breaks out. Even as French missiles were flying over Russian bases in Tartus Putin did not protect Assad. As Turkey was dismembering the North of the country he did nothing. As his own contractors were slaughtered by the Americans he did nothing. If China attacks India, he will do nothing. GoI hasn't realised this yet but they need to, once they do they can either turn to the US or France. France is the independent choice, the US is the restrictive one with their overzealous export controls and threatening sanctions if you sneeze on them. France has everything India needs including nuke subs and nuke carriers, they just need to ask. GoI would do it if it was cheaper, they still think Russia is the place to get everything for less but as they are finding out Russia is not immune to defence inflation. To buy another MKI is over $77 million a unit now, a Talwar is $775 million, a T-90 Bishma is double the price, everything that was a great deal 10 years ago is now twice as expensive. The US can sell for slightly less because of their economies of scale but it comes with serious handicaps. France is the only country to get the latest tech while keeping your sovereignty in check.