Where is India, we need it, says ASEAN

[Ray]

Usa has major stakes in south korea and japan. They obviously have interest in asia region. More towards west though , towards central asia afganistan pakistan region, that just happens to be the shortest path for exporting oil from central asian oil fields.

Indeed.

The US has stakes/interest in not only South Korea or Japan, but all nations around China including India.

Strategic stake!

But China has imperialist and hegemonic stakes in Asia.

China is at loggerheads with almost all countries in Asia except the Middle East and Pakistan and Cambodia.

Even Myanmar is having issues over the dam.

The US has strategic interest in dominating the Indian Ocean too and the chokepoints!

 

[amoy]

U must be pretty delusional if you think the Asian countries give priority to China over US. There is a reason why this thread is about Indian involvement. If India is involved in alliance with US, it effectively nullifies the negatives of distrust of US among Asian nations as it is well known that India follows independent foreign policy.

Are Asian countries really in the dilemma of choosing either China or the US? Does S. Korea have to side with one against the other? Or Do Laos or Thailand or Myanmar have to make the pick??

It's no more than overhyping that Asian countries are facing a question of who takes priority over the other. At the end of the day most of them would just carry on with the US as a balancer for security, and meantime China as an inescapable neighbor, stakeholder, partner or rival, whatever u name it in the region. Yin and Yang are seemingly contradictory but interdependent. And India, phewwww, does it have the political and economic might to pitch in?

Most of time u hear, Japan or Philippines, or Vietnam screaming aloud about Big Bully China as if their concerns were all the globe pivoted around. But, who cares on the earth? Most other Asian countries would as usual feel those spats irrelevant and stand on the sidelines. They don't have to fight others' "wars". They only mind their own "business".

That may sound disheartening to some but hey isn't it what realpolitik about? Look around, and tell who really gives a damn about Israel attacking Gaza or Hamas firing rockets??

So, stay cool , and enjoy co-existing / convertable Yin-Yang

 

[Ray]

Are Asian countries really in the dilemma of choosing either China or the US? Does S. Korea have to side with one against the other? Or Do Laos or Thailand or Myanmar have to make the pick??

It's no more than overhyping that Asian countries are facing a question of who takes priority over the other. At the end of the day most of them would just carry on with the US as a balancer for security, and meantime China as an inescapable neighbor, stakeholder, partner or rival, whatever u name it in the region. Yin and Yang are seemingly contradictory but interdependent. And India, phewwww, does it have the political and economic might to pitch in?

Most of time u hear, Japan or Philippines, or Vietnam screaming aloud about Big Bully China as if their concerns were all the globe pivoted around. But, who cares on the earth? Most other Asian countries would as usual feel those spats irrelevant and stand on the sidelines. They don't have to fight others' "wars". They only mind their own "business".

That may sound disheartening to some but hey isn't it what realpolitik about? Look around, and tell who really gives a damn about Israel attacking Gaza or Hamas firing rockets??

So, stay cool , and enjoy co-existing / convertable Yin-Yang

I don't think any Asian country is going to pick and choose.

But if there is the issue of a choice, then it would surely be the US.

China has spooked all with her hegemonic desire and claiming everything that their eyes can see.

That scares most countries since they do not know when China's 'evil eye' (metaphoric) would be cast in their direction.

That is the worry!

Look around, and tell who really gives a damn about Israel attacking Gaza or Hamas firing rockets??

That is true.

Most of the world is tired of the zeal of the Islamic fundamentalist who, like China, is on the quest for world domination.

Nobody likes to be dominated.

Partnership, yes. Domination, no!

Grabbing everything in sight as yours, no!

Heaven, Water, Fire and Earth has to be shared and not stolen by force or by ideology, religious or otherwise.

This is what cause the imbalance between Yang and Yin.

 

[no smoking]

As always, you miss the point my friend. How many countries you need in alliance against China to contain China? Give me a number. I will fit some. If China doesn't mind forming alliances which doesn't make a difference, they can you explain why China protests every other day against the meetings between countries? Why is China shit scared like a paranoid little kid on a rollercoaster ride?

The point is not how many countries you need to form such an alliance or whether Chinese minds. Instead, the question you should ask is who wants to join. So far, you haven't give any solid reason to indicate why countries like SK, Thailand, Lao should join in.

Why is every other country in your neighbourhood feeling the anti-China wave? You do realize that the second largest economy is still trying to mess with the first largest economy.. don't you? If you understand that, you can also understand why the remaining big economies will gang up against the second largest economy with the active co-operation of the first largest. China can indeed compete with US in terms of economy, but then again Chinese holdings are in US bonds which effectively nullifies your strategic advantage whatsoever you have.

Why every other country in neighbourhood feeling the anti-China wave? The same reason that every other country in india neighbourhood hates feel anti-india wave: no body likes a big guy sitting besides you.
Can you give me some examples that other economies are forming a group againsting Chinese economy, especially in Asia.

U must be pretty delusional if you think the Asian countries give priority to China over US. There is a reason why this thread is about Indian involvement. If India is involved in alliance with US, it effectively nullifies the negatives of distrust of US among Asian nations as it is well known that India follows independent foreign policy.

That is your illusion, my friend. Asian countries don't give priority to any country except themselves. They open doors for anybody who can bring benefits to them. One more competitor means they have a chance to get a better offer.

Why do you think an alliance against China is a risk to only non-Chinese members? Don't forget that China will be screwed too.

Yes, China will be screwed. But with whole homeland turning into ash, this victory would mean nothing to most of asian countries. The point is what they can get from such a victory.
As a nuclear power, no one can occupy an inch of Chinese land except those disputed islands which would be rewards for Japan or vietname. But what reward is for others?
I know that no indian likes China, but you have to put your emotion aside from analysis. Remember, we are not discussing the motion of india or Japan here.
Chinese military threat is still a remote possibility as much as the threat from Japan for most of asian countries while Chinese economic coorpation brings huge amount of money to them. Now, you ask them to throw everything away to join such an alliance, you have to answer a question: WHAT CAN THEY GET!

 

[cir]

India needs first to work harder to secure more mentions by the US presidential candidates during their policy debates。

As for how the East Asians，especially the South Koreans and the Japanese， view India，one only needs to watch their TV soap operas to get a good idea。

It is a recurring theme of those TV shows that getting posted to India is akin to DEATH sentence。

Indians are living in delusion if they think that they are much liked in this part of Asia。

They are not much liked by ASEAN people either。

Face the reality and grow up。

 

[cir]

Where is India indeed？

China to invest more in Thailand

Published: 21/11/2012

BANGKOK - The Chinese government is interested in buying Thai agricultural produce, especially rice, and expanding investment in Thailand, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said after a meeting with visiting Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao on Wednesday.

Ms Yingluck said China plans to expand its investment in Thailand by 15% per year and is keen on opening a new airline route between the two countries.

The government would like to invite China to invest in Thailand's highspeed train network project, water management and the Dawei deep-sea port in Myanmar, she said.

Meanwhile, Thailand is interested in investing in rubber and the automotive industry in China, she said.

Premier Minister Wen said China and Thailand will become economic partners in many important projects, such as mass transportation, irrigation, agriculture and economic cooperation along the Mekong River.

China will continue to promote Chinese language learning in Thailand, he added.

Premier Wen flew into Bangkok Tuesday for an overnight visit on what will be his last foreign trip before the new Chinese leadership takes over.

His two-day visit came after United States President Barack Obama arrived in Bangkok on Sunday to discuss security and trade and investment with the Thai government.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/322379/pm-china-to-invest-more-in-thailand

 

[SpArK]

Where is India indeed？

China to invest more in Thailand

Published: 21/11/2012

BANGKOK - The Chinese government is interested in buying Thai agricultural produce, especially rice, and expanding investment in Thailand, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said after a meeting with visiting Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao on Wednesday.


China to invest more in Thailand | Bangkok Post: breakingnews

Let us also dump few...Africa is too far.


Thailand, India dumping 15-yr-old rice in Africa - Trade - Thailand Business News

 

[roma]

.If you really want to promote india's role in Asia, you really can't expect any significant payment from them for your help because they generaly accept offers from USA or China for free or almost free.

it is interesting to see a country that was once the "sick man of asia " ( china ) talk so rich and assume that others cant do the same in terms of pulling themselves out of the dung heap ( as china once was wallowing in ) ? in fact most ASEAN countries are far better off then china was in the past and for china to assume only they can do it smacks of racism to say the least

so how should we deal with the racist ?

lets see:- .(1) ..... :... india should use this opportunity for demand of military hardware especially naval , to gear up our manufacturing capability

(2) ... the usa japan are "able " to pick up the fianancial tab and so they need not contribute mass manpower but rather some specialist areas and training ..

(3) those who cannot pay in terms of cash ( eg phillippines ) can jolly well contribute in terms of manpower

(4) - yes ! - it's that simple !

 

[Bangalorean]

India needs first to work harder to secure more mentions by the US presidential candidates during their policy debates。

As for how the East Asians，especially the South Koreans and the Japanese， view India，one only needs to watch their TV soap operas to get a good idea。

It is a recurring theme of those TV shows that getting posted to India is akin to DEATH sentence。

Indians are living in delusion if they think that they are much liked in this part of Asia。

They are not much liked by ASEAN people either。

Face the reality and grow up。

I know a little more than you about this.

In East Asia, everyone dislikes everyone else. The South Koreans hate the Japanese and Chinese, the Chinese hate the Japanese and South Koreans, the Taiwanese have political problems with China, and dislike Japan totally. Japanese don't like Chinese and Koreans, and look down upon them. Hong Kongese people look down upon people from mainland China, and detest the Japanese. Everyone hates North Korea - both Japan and South Korea hate the NoKo establishment. Chinese find them crazy and idiotic too.

I am a frequent traveler to East Asia, and it has happened very often that East Asians speak bad about their neighbouring countries to a foreigner (me) - it happens all too frequently.

So, no matter what they think about India, no matter how much fun they make of India, there is really no hate or dislike for India. If you ask a South Korean "which nation is better from Korea's POV, India or China or Japan?", almost every Korean to the last man, will say India. Also, in East Asian nations, the Indians who go there are usually highly educated professionals and business travelers. You don't find labourers and illegal immigrants from India there.

It is you who needs to wake up. You are the one who is living in delusion.

 

[roma]

You mean like SEATO?

Southeast Asia Treaty Organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hello there Ewald - yes indeed SEATO - ... in fact there used to be ANZUS in collaboration with SEATO ...

seato was formed in the early days when the threat from ( mainly vietnamese) communism was rife and was the brainchild of the Tengku Abdul Rahman , then PM of Malaya before Malaysia was formed ...... the dissolution of ASEAN is not to be construed as a failure of the countries to come together but rather that it's original mission and flavour was no longer relevant in that form

times change, motivations change , geopolitics change .....today we have a much more accurate reading of the dragon and the threats from it .....unless the individual countries of asean want to commit SUICIDE , they should learn to come together ...... it may be up to the USA as the commonly respected senior member to lead the coalition and be the main organiser but the contributions can and should be shared in the manner ive described in another post just above

best regards,
R

 

[roma]

I know a little more than you about this.

In East Asia, everyone dislikes everyone else. The South Koreans hate the Japanese and Chinese, the Chinese hate the Japanese and South Koreans, the Taiwanese have political problems with China, and dislike Japan totally. Japanese don't like Chinese and Koreans, and look down upon them. Hong Kongese people look down upon people from mainland China, and detest the Japanese. Everyone hates North Korea - both Japan and South Korea hate the NoKo establishment. Chinese find them crazy and idiotic too.

I am a frequent traveler to East Asia, and it has happened very often that East Asians speak bad about their neighbouring countries to a foreigner (me) - it happens all too frequently.

So, no matter what they think about India, no matter how much fun they make of India, there is really no hate or dislike for India. If you ask a South Korean "which nation is better from Korea's POV, India or China or Japan?", almost every Korean to the last man, will say India. Also, in East Asian nations, the Indians who go there are usually highly educated professionals and business travelers. You don't find labourers and illegal immigrants from India there.

It is you who needs to wake up. You are the one who is living in delusion.

Sir - as you actually frequently visit east asia , your input is most valuable .- no exaggeration there

would appreciate hearing from you much more on these aspects - a window into east asia !

 

[roma]

Chinese military threat is still a remote possibility as much as the threat from Japan for most of asian countries while Chinese economic coorpation brings huge amount of money to them. ....

???????

youre scenario is from the 1980's - that might have been true , part of it , the china part , at THAT time .... even then it is not accurate
the only places which still see japan as a threat are the EMOTIONAL chinese history textbooks which being hiistory ( i suppose ) are living in the past

most south east asian countries especially singapore malaysia had been begging for japanese investments since the 1960s let alone today ...naaahh they had long ago gotten rid of the image that japan was a military threat since the 1970s and even as an economic threat that idea had been abandoned in the 1990's
as i said japan is a threat only in chinese text books

you told the other member not to be emotional - tell the same to your textbooks !

anyone with a reasonably good head on their shoulders realises that the big threat is china not the smaller limited Japan

hereon for a longtime henceforth you, dragon are the BAD GUY !

 

[Bangalorean]

Sir - as you actually frequently visit east asia , your input is most valuable .- no exaggeration there

would appreciate hearing from you much more on these aspects - a window into east asia !

I go there every month. I spend about 50% of my time in East Asia. But unfortunately I don't know any of their languages. I am being asked to learn - maybe I will take up the challenge if I feel it really enriches my career!! That way, I will also get to know much more about East Asian culture and thinking.

But it is certain that though they may not think very highly of India, there is no "hate" or "dislike" for India or Indians there. The most common sentiment among the educated Korean/Taiwanese towards India is just curiosity. And almost every Indian who goes there is a professional, and not an low-level immigrant, unlike what we see in many European countries.

The only "hate" and "dislike" that they have is for their fellow East Asians, they don't have any "dislike" for Indians, though admittedly, they don't think very highly of India as a nation. But then, that's just how it is anywhere in the world - the reality is that no one thinks highly of an economically underdeveloped nation. India's impression has started changing and improving (throughout the world, not just in East Asia) only in the last decade, after increasing economic development. It will continue to change as India grows more prosperous and powerful, as has already begun.

But it is laughable to see Chinese posters on DFI speaking about "the image of Indians in East Asia" - they have done this more than once. Koreans and Japanese have such a low opinion of Chinese, especially Chinese tourists, it is shocking. The stereotype among them is that Chinese have no manners, they don't have public sense of behaviour and sense of hygiene, they are great ones for spitting and littering - these are just some of the stereotypes about Chinese among the developed East Asian nations.

 

[roma]

some quotes from bagaloreans post above :-

And almost every Indian who goes there is a professional, and not an low-level immigrant, unlike what we see in many European countries.

me :- in europe they are distinguishing between indian and other south asian ...theyre beginning to see the difference and it will continue to change as the home country improves its economy

But it is laughable to see Chinese posters on DFI speaking about "the image of Indians in East Asia" -
me:- cmany , most ? chicoms here are 50 cts paid army - it's their job - so they have a case to prove -- like some "prosecuting attorney"

 

[Oblaks]

???????

youre scenario is from the 1980's - that might have been true , part of it , the china part , at THAT time .... even then it is not accurate
the only places which still see japan as a threat are the EMOTIONAL chinese history textbooks which being hiistory ( i suppose ) are living in the past

most south east asian countries especially singapore malaysia had been begging for japanese investments since the 1960s let alone today ...naaahh they had long ago gotten rid of the image that japan was a military threat since the 1970s and even as an economic threat that idea had been abandoned in the 1990's
as i said japan is a threat only in chinese text books

you told the other member not to be emotional - tell the same to your textbooks !

anyone with a reasonably good head on their shoulders realises that the big threat is china not the smaller limited Japan

hereon for a longtime henceforth you, dragon are the BAD GUY !

There was actually some chronicles which talk about china's long term plan for world conquest starting with controllibg the scs as part of their vengeance for the hindrud years of shame. Have to dig it up

 

[Bangalorean]

Though not strictly related to defence or geostrategy, this is really interesting:

Mahindra XUV500 - Asean Rally 2012

 

[no smoking]

So, no matter what they think about India, no matter how much fun they make of India, there is really no hate or dislike for India. If you ask a South Korean "which nation is better from Korea's POV, India or China or Japan?", almost every Korean to the last man, will say India. Also, in East Asian nations, the Indians who go there are usually highly educated professionals and business travelers. You don't find labourers and illegal immigrants from India there.

My friend, you maybe travel there frequently. But you definitly have zero understanding of East Asian Cultural.

To East Asian countries including China, india is still an "irrevalant" country, India's economic/military power is still far beyond reach for the majority public. More importantly, the mainstream of these countries don't engage on daily english communication. So, basically, the public has no feeling of india at all. In another words, they don't hate india, nor like india. Since India has nothing to do with them, why they should talk some indian shits in front of an indian?

By the way, in Eastern Asian, being the subject of frequent fun making is worse than being hated or feared. When people make fun of you a lot, it means you are not even worth a decent discussion.

 

[Bangalorean]

My friend, you maybe travel there frequently. But you definitly have zero understanding of East Asian Cultural.

To East Asian countries including China, india is still an "irrevalant" country, India's economic/military power is still far beyond reach for the majority public. More importantly, the mainstream of these countries don't engage on daily english communication. So, basically, the public has no feeling of india at all. In another words, they don't hate india, nor like india. Since India has nothing to do with them, why they should talk some indian shits in front of an indian?

By the way, in Eastern Asian, being the subject of frequent fun making is worse than being hated or feared. When people make fun of you a lot, it means you are not even worth a decent discussion.

That is what I said, that the feeling for India is neutral, not negative. And LOL, what do you mean "frequent fun making" It is hardly "frequent", really - as I said, the impression ranges from curiosity to indifference/neutrality. Even from the "fun" perspective, China and Chinese are ridiculed and mocked constantly, you know that? So, as per your thesis, Chinese are also not "worth a decent discussion".

Please stop pulling out these conclusions and assumptions from your Musharraf.

 

[ice berg]

That is what I said, that the feeling for India is neutral, not negative. And LOL, what do you mean "frequent fun making" It is hardly "frequent", really - as I said, the impression ranges from curiosity to indifference/neutrality. Even from the "fun" perspective, China and Chinese are ridiculed and mocked constantly, you know that? So, as per your thesis, Chinese are also not "worth a decent discussion".

Please stop pulling out these conclusions and assumptions from your Musharraf.

About time to use some grey cells.

If they can talk trash about the chinese behind their backs. Why in earth you think it will be different for the indians?

Let us stop the ridiculous discussion about who they are mocking. Time is better spend to improve yourself.

In a decade or two, I bet they wont laugh no more.

 

[Bangalorean]

About time to use some grey cells.

If they can talk trash about the chinese behind their backs. Why in earth you think it will be different for the indians?

Let us stop the ridiculous discussion about who they are mocking. Time is better spend to improve yourself.

In a decade or two, I bet they wont laugh no more.

Yeah, it is ridiculous to discuss who is being mocked, I agree. And I also agree that India is not highly regarded, as I have already said.

But you have to agree that the impression of China is much worse than of India, because China is not only mocked, but also despised and hated. You know what is the impression of Chinese tourists that they have, I don't need to tell you that. Indian visitors on the other hand, are professionals and businessmen - the cream of Indian society, usually.

And that was my point from the beginning. Chinese posters must stop making the point that "Oh, India has a much worse image among ASEAN nations, China has a much better image" - Chinese posters do that very often here.

Check this link from Yahoo Philippines: India counters China map claims in tit-for-tat move - Yahoo! News Philippines

Look at the comments. I am sure most of the people who are commenting don't know much about India, but the extreme hate for China is clear.

Let me reiterate - in most East Asian and SE Asian nations, the overwhelming sentiment for India is either curiosity or indifference, whereas for China, it is overwhelmingly hate, suspicion and mistrust. The Chinese posters must accept this fact instead of simply saying, "oh, they dislike you too"!