US Offers To Match India's Ally Russia

[Kunal Biswas]

Russia has many things to offer to civil lain sector, I hope for betterment in Energy and Aero- space sector ..

 

[brational]

These are the demand of the situation and market/cost dynamics.. India has been a part of Global supply chain for companies like Boeing, Airbus, GE etc due to quality and cost benefits. It is obvious that US will never push India to produce finished products. Till date US is refusing to honor Indian offset clause. Neither a single ToT happened till date on crucial technologies nor a single finished product came out from India with American help/cooperation. Amrika controls every ToT to India. They will try to implement various clauses on ToT for making stapler Pins for Indian Armed Forces.

Signing of MoU does not guarantee the implementation on Ground. Long way to go for US. The only requisite is US's action to bridge the Trust Deficit, which is not happening anytime soon. Yes, US will offer cooperation in Arjun Upgrade, Tejas etc but they will not help us in producing an AESA radar and they will force other nation to stop cooperating/supplying with us an AESA radar. This is the reality.

 

[Zebra]

These are the demand of the situation and market/cost dynamics.. India has been a part of Global supply chain for companies like Boeing, Airbus, GE etc due to quality and cost benefits. It is obvious that US will never push India to produce finished products.

Sir, that is what PM said make in India. It was for full finished products.

Till date US is refusing to honor Indian offset clause.

Offset is not free. At the end they charge for everything.

Better try to get something else instead of offset.

BTW, what is the reason to get diehard for offset...? Specially when it is not free.

Neither a single ToT happened till date on crucial technologies nor a single finished product came out from India with American help/cooperation. Amrika controls every ToT to India. They will try to implement various clauses on ToT for making stapler Pins for Indian Armed Forces.

India will never get ToT until India go on US side. And that is the reason I posted this thread here.

Now a million dollar question : what is that line, which US wants India to cross,

so that India can start getting all ToT which we wants.

On top of it, why the hell we wants those ToTs. Can't we live without it?

What Indians did with whatever ToT they got in past?

Signing of MoU does not guarantee the implementation on Ground. Long way to go for US. The only requisite is US's action to bridge the Trust Deficit, which is not happening anytime soon.

Did US wants India on their side...!

If yes, then India will get it. For sure.

Other wise we are better off as it is.

Yes, US will offer cooperation in Arjun Upgrade, Tejas etc but they will not help us in producing an AESA radar and they will force other nation to stop cooperating/supplying with us an AESA radar. This is the reality.

Sir, US can provide tech, someone can use it for what is was meant for. If someone use other places then it will get trouble. And if someone try to sell product made / used that tech then it will be great trouble.

Now back on your AESA matter. If anyone sell AESA which has US tech then US will ban it.

Similar way, if India make similar/ clone variant of BrahMos or even make a all different missile using BrahMos tech and sell it to other nation, then what will be Russian reaction...?

 

[Zebra]

^^

For ToT, joint R&D and joint production matter...................

U.S.-India Joint Declaration on Defense Cooperation | The White House

The White House

Office of the Press Secretary,
For Immediate Release,

September 27, 2013

India-United States defense cooperation and engagement has increased significantly over the past decade, in step with the overall deepening of India-U.S. relations. We continue to work toward achieving the full vision of expanded defense cooperation set forth in the 2005 New Framework Agreement.

In this context, India and the United States endorse the following general principles for fulfilling this vision:

* The United States and India share common security interests and place each other at the same level as their closest partners. This principle will apply with respect to defense technology transfer, trade, research, co-development and co-production for defense articles and services, including the most advanced and sophisticated technology. They will work to improve licensing processes, and, where applicable, follow expedited license approval processes to facilitate this cooperation. The United States and India are also committed to protecting each other's sensitive technology and information.

* The United States continues to fully support India's full membership in the four international export control regimes, which would further facilitate technology sharing.

* The two sides will continue their efforts to strengthen mutual understanding of their respective procurement systems and approval processes, and to address process-related difficulties in defense trade, technology transfer, and collaboration.

The two sides look forward to the identification of specific opportunities for cooperative and collaborative projects in advanced defense technologies and systems, within the next year. Such opportunities will be pursued by both sides in accordance with their national policies and procedures, in a manner that would reflect the full potential of the relationship.

 

[pmaitra]

I heard that India is planning to lease a second N-submarine from "ally" Russia. That "ally" part is borrowed from the thread title. We all know India is not allied with any bloc.

Anyway, when will the US match Russia's first N-submarine?

Ref: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ease-second-nuclear-submarine.html#post982954

 

[brational]

^^

For ToT, joint R&D and joint production matter...................

Funny! On paper, POK is part of India, op paper, US is fighting WOT and the latest on paper, US-India joint declaration on Defense Cooperation but in reality all are telling different things.
@Casper - really appreciate your efforts to prove your point but you need to consider the facts on ground (What you have in hand rather than the bird in the bush) like @pmaitra put his point - Leasing another Nuclear Sub. You do not need to prove anything if you remove the "Defense Cooperation" phrase from US-India relations. India-US economic relations are far better than that of India-Russia. India doesn't need to be an US ally only to have defense cooperation from US (I will call it 'Blackmailing" if US is denying defense cooperation on this ground). Dubious country with dubious policies.:shocked:

 

[Zebra]

Funny! On paper, POK is part of India, op paper, US is fighting WOT and the latest on paper, US-India joint declaration on Defense Cooperation but in reality all are telling different things.
@Casper - really appreciate your efforts to prove your point but you need to consider the facts on ground (What you have in hand rather than the bird in the bush) like @pmaitra put his point - Leasing another Nuclear Sub. You do not need to prove anything if you remove the "Defense Cooperation" phrase from US-India relations. India-US economic relations are far better than that of India-Russia. India doesn't need to be an US ally only to have defense cooperation from US (I will call it 'Blackmailing" if US is denying defense cooperation on this ground). Dubious country with dubious policies.:shocked:

Sir, for nuke sub lease from Russia matter......

I don't know but for me, at present, it is like........jab dulhan chele tab janiye.

Though, I do afraid for our 2nd leased n-sub.

Save this post.

 

[Zebra]

Sir, will you elaborate how US is good on India with some examples ?

My friend, this is the proper thread.

First of all India US strategic and defence tie is not all new topic. Both the govts are talking in this matter since 2000.

They end up making detailed framework for that matter. They meet time to time and made declarations. All those declarations are there on DFI somewhere.

It tells us how US India tie will help India.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, when you asked it, let me say in broader terms, how it will help India.

If India remains on US side then......

1) It will help India to achieve our targets, what we wants to get for India.

For example, food security. Best example how better relations with US, makes it easy and we end up having some favourable deal with WTO.

All the world intergovernmental organizations are under direct / indirect control of US. You say yes or no, but they work under US influence.

If India has US support then it gets easy to deal all of them.


2) It will help to maintain our strategic interests.


3) It will help to meet security challenges.

Imagine if ever India goes on all out war at both front, at a time.

Then how many total soldiers will be fighting in that war? Including Indian, Pakistani and Chinese.

To prepare for such huge war we need our own military-industrial complex.

At this moment we lack fund, tech, and trained men power for that type of development in India. If we manage to get US help and support then how crucial it will be for our security.

 

[Zebra]

A nice example how US tried to help India in 2006.

But few people always cried in the name of TOT whenever they talked about US.

..........Here is what is the problem with India

In Feb. 2006, the US experts stated that "Kaveri is truly a world-class engine." They were ready to assist.

"We are ready to join in partnership with the Defence Research and Development Organisation to make Kaveri work," General William J Begert of Pratt and Whitney, told PTI.

And here is the misplaced ego that caused all the effort and money to go waste.

In Feb. 2006, the US experts stated that "Kaveri is truly a world-class engine." They were ready to assist.

"We are ready to join in partnership with the Defence Research and Development Organisation to make Kaveri work," General William J Begert of Pratt and Whitney, told PTI.

http://www.india-defence.com/reports/1306

And now it the Project has been shelved!!!!

Misplaced ego and foolish jingoism!

 

[Agustya]

USA can help by not imposing sanctions when a x-MT test at Pokhran is conducted.

 

[Hari Sud]

The flak in Indo-US ties was deliberate and intentional. PM Manmohan Singh and any of his ministers, post 2008 had done nothing to upset a bunch of US State Department officials after Obama took over in 2008. It was the doing of sweet talking otherwise a crook, Hillary Clinton who wished to sabotage Indo-US nuclear deal. She initiated the cooling off of ties with India and then rest of the U.S. State Department took over.
The worst US Ambassdor to India in Nancy Powell showed up, even if Hillary was gone and then situation came to hilt with the arrest of Indian Diplomat in New York on flimsy charges.

No, there is no change in US State Department set up. It is same old bunch hell bent on sabotaging Obama visit. They took exceptions to Russian Putin visit to India including the leader of Crimean in New Delhi. Their advice to Obama is to curtail give aways while in New Delhi. Hence expectations should be lowered in India.

 

[Rowdy]

The flak in Indo-US ties was deliberate and intentional. PM Manmohan Singh and any of his ministers, post 2008 had done nothing to upset a bunch of US State Department officials after Obama took over in 2008. It was the doing of sweet talking otherwise a crook, Hillary Clinton who wished to sabotage Indo-US nuclear deal. She initiated the cooling off of ties with India and then rest of the U.S. State Department took over.
The worst US Ambassdor to India in Nancy Powell showed up, even if Hillary was gone and then situation came to hilt with the arrest of Indian Diplomat in New York on flimsy charges.

No, there is no change in US State Department set up. It is same old bunch hell bent on sabotaging Obama visit. They took exceptions to Russian Putin visit to India including the leader of Crimean in New Delhi. Their advice to Obama is to curtail give aways while in New Delhi. Hence expectations should be lowered in India.

If Hill-Dog wins the 2016 prez elections ... lol we need to keep ruskies close.

 

[pmaitra]

This thread was suspected to be a lot more noise than substance, and now more details are emerging, whereby, we are seeing all this talk about US matching Russia in weapons deals is merely a pipe-dream and political claptrap.

This report by Ajay Shukla explains a few areas where the US can never and will never match Russia, when it comes to sharing defense technology. It is about time we stopped dancing on our toes the moment someone dangles a carrot with no desire to give it to us.

 

[Mikesingh]

Looks like some serious brainstorming is going on in the US wrt to India.

I dont know if we have a collection of brains to brainstorm in India about our relations with the US at least in any officially appointed capacity. We guys over here do it.

India has to take up this opportunity for its own good. The US is offering high end technology and India should grasp it with both hands. India has to seriously think about taking the strategic ties to the next level. Russia has become unreliable. Hiking prices phenomenally as we heard recently about the price of ammo for the T90s and Russia is open to selling tech to China which will filter down to Pakistan.

We need the leftist mind in MoD to change or go.

Its clearly time for some serious effort to establish very strong relations with the US and lose the old baggage permanently.

Ok, but what's the guarantee that the US of A will not once again slap sanctions on India like it did after the 1974 and 1998 nuclear tests?

India would be vulnerable to blackmail if there's too much dependence on US weapon platforms.

The bottom line is, can India trust the U.S.?

 

[bengalraider]

The Problem with the Americans is that they are democratic like us, the problem with that is that democracies are inherently unpredictable.What that means is that domestic policies and public pressure from the American public will always play a part in Indo-American relations.One President might love us while a second might be ambivalent and a third might despise us, too many unknowns to commit to one basket I'd say.

 

[punjab47]

Line usa wants India to cross is christian conversion as it is only ideological center able to oppose mid eastern abrahamic bloc.

Then there be tot