The Indian army is fast losing its morale

sgarg

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And how you are planning to do that??Do you want two or more Colonels or Generals to command same formations...........is that what you are suggesting??
Every single organization is pyramidal. Which one is not?

There will always be cases when some people will not make it to a higher rank.

I think best solution is to absorb excess officers in other walks of life - industry, government etc.

The need to have larger number of junior officers is always there. Who will lead by example otherwise.
 

sgarg

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There you go again.

Comments without a modicum knowledge, if I may say.

Who says that the pyramidal structure is a creation of the Army itself?

Could you explain as to how 'senior' position can be created?

In the Police you can keep increasing the sinecure, but the Army is organised for a mission and you just cannot keep adding senior or junior positions just for the lark of it.

As it is, the rank structure has been diluted enough. and the organisation made flabby.

It must be realised that one cannot bifurcate the command responsibilities into various penny packets.

Just take the case of Jointmanship. There is no single authority (Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff) to command all three services and so each goes its own way, when to have the synergy one should have a single point of decision that gets all the Services including the Coast Guard to operate in a complementary manner so that there is economy of effort and a joint selection and maintenance of aim.
Every problem has a solution. I hope this one has too.

I see two problems in Indian army - 1. It takes too few in officer cadre; 2. It is not sufficiently broad-based, that is caste base is too narrow.

You are in a better position to propose solutions. Please do.
 

Ray

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Every problem has a solution. I hope this one has too.

I see two problems in Indian army - 1. It takes too few in officer cadre; 2. It is not sufficiently broad-based, that is caste base is too narrow.

You are in a better position to propose solutions. Please do.
The Indian Army takes as per the requirement considering all aspects to include promotion avenues and morale.

The problem arise is that there are too many mid stream 'drop outs' (premature retirement) given various factors to include better remunerations in the civil society. If those who do not wish to continue are prevented from quitting, then they will be disgruntled and their attitude would be detrimental to discipline and morale. Catch 22.

It might be added that today's officer is not the same as before. They are very career conscious and put their career prospect ahead of the organisational interest. This was not so before. Therefore, while ensuring that their military career is going on, they also study alongside acquiring degrees that will equip them for a civil job on retirement or when they are superseded and want to quit or when they see a better opportunity in the civil market.

There is no caste base in the Army since there is no caste quotas as in other Govt departments. So, I wonder what made you mention this since you claim to know the panacea for all the ills of the military.
 

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@Ray

That is a great article & it puts on all the facts which are totally true. My views will be more on the political situation towards our Army. I believe that the politics which has started right from 1947 by the congress have had their designs planned in undermining our Army. There is a socio-political issue in India as we know the common mans life & an army personnel's life holds no value for all the governments that have been in India. They only planned to wage a war when the parliament was attacked. In USA, Israel & Europe we never hear their media, ministers blaming & tarnishing the army. There are multiple cases of friendly fires or when the Blackwater killed civilians in Iraq, The Army image was never hampered in these countries.

The politics in India is of absolute dirt class. The Congress's policy of minority appeasement & keeping the Kashmir issue burning, hints at a much bigger agenda. We will never know as why the cross border terrorism has never ever been tackled seriously ? There have been blasts thru out our country, targeting civilians & army personnel & this keeps happening. Kashmir issue is THE only agenda for Pakistan & its survival of its politics.

I may sound like Robert Ludlum here based on my theory, but there is definitely something serious when the terrorism is kept alive & we are always on the defensive.
 
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mikhail

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The Indian Army takes as per the requirement considering all aspects to include promotion avenues and morale.

The problem arise is that there are too many mid stream 'drop outs' (premature retirement) given various factors to include better remunerations in the civil society. If those who do not wish to continue are prevented from quitting, then they will be disgruntled and their attitude would be detrimental to discipline and morale. Catch 22.

It might be added that today's officer is not the same as before. They are very career conscious and put their career prospect ahead of the organisational interest. This was not so before. Therefore, while ensuring that their military career is going on, they also study alongside acquiring degrees that will equip them for a civil job on retirement or when they are superseded and want to quit or when they see a better opportunity in the civil market.

There is no caste base in the Army since there is no caste quotas as in other Govt departments. So, I wonder what made you mention this since you claim to know the panacea for all the ills of the military.
Sir,personally i feel that the Army is a bit biased to Northern India when it comes to recruitment.Bengal has always been neglected by the Army as a whole despite having large number of educated unemployed men who could join the Army and serve the nation.Recruitment rallies are very few in numbers when compared to Northern and Western Part of this country.Heck we don't even have a Bengal Regiment anymore(the last being dissoved way back in 1917) when every other state barring a few new ones has a regimet of its own.I know you'll point out that it has been the policy of the Indian Army not to create any new regiment based on regionalism or casteism ever since our independence but this lack of a dedicated Regiment has been a major reason why Bengalis are under-represented in the Indian Army.
 

Ray

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Every single organization is pyramidal. Which one is not?

There will always be cases when some people will not make it to a higher rank.

I think best solution is to absorb excess officers in other walks of life - industry, government etc.

The need to have larger number of junior officers is always there. Who will lead by example otherwise.
Not such a narrow pyramid as the Military.

Excellent article by an IAS officer on "INDIAN ARMY"
24 September 2011 at 02:15
We need a permanent solution to this tussle over emoluments so that the armed forces need only confront the enemies of the nation, says T.R.Ramaswami IAS.

In the continuing debate on pay scales for the armed forces, there has to be a serious and transparent effort to ensure that the country is not faced with an unnecessary civil-military confrontation.That effort will have to come from the netas, who are the real and true bosses of the armed forces and not the civil bureaucracy. A solution may lie in what follows. This country requires the best armed forces, the best police and the best civil service. In fact that is what the British ensured.. By best one means that a person chooses which service he wants as per his desires/capabilities and not based on the vast differential in prospects in the various services.

How much differential is there?

Take Maharashtra, one of the most parsimonious with police ranks thus still retaining some merit -
The 1981 IPS batch have become 3-star generals, the 1987 are 2-star and the 1994 1-star.

In the army the corresponding years are 1972, 1975, 1979. ie a differential of 10-15 years. While the differential is more with the IAS, the variance with the IPS is all the more glaring because both are uniformed services and the grades are "visible" on the shoulders.


First some general aspects. Only the armed forces are a real profession, ie where you rise to the top only by joining at the bottom. We have had professors of economics become Finance Secretaries or even Governors of RBI. We have any number of MBBSs,engineers, MBAs, in the police force though what their qualifications lend to their jobs is a moot point. You can join at any level in the civil service, except Cabinet Secretary. A civil servant can move from Animal Husbandry to Civil Aviation to Fertilisers to Steel to yes, unfortunately, even to Defence. But the army never asks for Brigade Commanders or a Commandant of the Army War College or even Director General Military Intelligence, even from RAW or IB. Army officers can and have moved into organizations like IB and RAW but it is never the other way round. MBBS and Law graduates are only in the Medical or JAG Corps and do nothing beyond their narrow areas. Every Army Chief - in any army - has risen from being a commander of a platoon to company to battalion to brigade to division to corps to army.In fact the professionalism is so intense that no non-armoured corps officer ever commands an armoured formation , first and possibly only exception in world military history is General K. Sunderji.Perhaps it is this outstanding professionalism that irks the civil services.

Next, one must note the rigidity and steep pyramid of the army's rank structure. In the civil services any post is fungible with any grade based on political expediency and the desires of the service. For example I know of one case where one department downgraded one post in another state and up-graded one in Mumbai just to enable someone continue in Mumbai after promotion!

You can't fool around like this in the armed forces. A very good Brigadier cannot be made a Major-General and continue as brigade commander. There has to be a clear vacancy for a Major General and even then there may be others better than him.
Further the top five ranks in the army comprise only 10% of the officer strength. Contrast this with the civil services where entire batches become Joint Secretaries.

Even the meaning of the word "merit" is vastly different in the army and the civil services. Some years back an officer of the Maharashtra cadre claimed that he should be the Chief Secretary as he was first in the merit list.Which merit list? At the time of entry more than 35 years before! The fact is that this is how merit is decided in the IAS and IPS. Every time a batch gets promoted the inter-se merit is still retained as at the time of entry. In other words if you are first in a batch at the time of entry, then as long as you get promoted, you continue to remain first! This is like someone in the army claiming that he should become chief because he got the Sword of Honour at the IMA. Even a Param Vir Chakra does not count for promotion, assuming that you are still alive. In the armed forces, merit is a continuous process - each time a batch is promoted the merit list is redrawn according to your performance in all the previous assignments with additional weightage given not only to the last one but also to your suitability for the next one.Thus if you are a Brigade Commander and found fit to become a Major General, you may not get a division because others have been found better to head a division. That effectively puts an end to your promotion to Lt. General.The compensation package must therefore address all the above issues. In each service, anyone must get the same total compensation by the time he reaches the 'mode rank' of his service. "Mode" is a statistical term it is the value where the maximum number of variables fall.

In the IAS normally everyone reaches Director and in the IPS it is DIG. In the army, given the aforementioned rank and grade rigidities and pyramidical structure, the mode rank cannot exceed Colonel. Thus a Colonel's gross career earnings (not salary scales alone) must be at par with that of a Director. But remember that a Colonel retires at 54, but every babu from peon to Secretary at 60 regardless of performance.Further, it takes 18-20 years to become a Colonel whereas in that time an IAS officer reaches the next higher grade of Joint Secretary, which is considered equal to a Major General.These aspects and others - like postings in non-family stations - must be addressed while fixing the overall pay scales of Colonel and below. Thereafter a Brigadier will be made equal to a Joint Secretary, a Major-General to an Additional Secretary and a Lt. General to a Secretary. The Army Commanders deserve a new rank -Colonel General - and should be above a Secretary but below Cabinet Secretary. The equalization takes place at the level of Cabinet Secretary and Army Chief.

If this is financially a problem I have another solution. Without increasing the armed forces' scales, reduce the scales of the IAS and IPS till they too have 20% shortage.

Done?

Even India 's corruption index will go down.

If the above is accepted in principle, there is a good case to review the number of posts above Colonel. Senior ranks in the armed forces have become devalued with more and more posts being created.But the same pruning exercise is necessary in the IAS and more so inthe IPS, where Directors General in some states are re-writing police manuals eg one is doing Volume I and another Volume II!
Further the civil services have such facilities as "compulsory wait" ie basically a picnic at taxpayers cost. And if you are not promoted or posted where you don't want to go they seem able to take off on leave with much ease. In the army you will be court-martialled.
Also find out how many are on study leave. The country cannot afford this.

Let not someone say that the IAS and IPS exams are tougher and hence the quality of the officers better. An exam at the age of 24 has to be tougher than one at the age of 16. The taxpaying citizen is not interested in your essay/note writing capabilities or whether you know Cleopatra's grandfather.

As a citizen I always see the army being called to hold the pants of the civil services and the police and never the other way round. That's enough proof as to who is really more capable. Also recall the insensitive statements made by the IG Meerut in the Aarushi case and the Home Secretary after the blasts. Further, when the IAS and IPS hopefuls are sleeping, eating and studying, their school mates, who have joined the army, stand vigil on the borders to make it possible for them to do so. Remember that the armed forces can only fight for above the table pay. They can never compete with the civil services and definitely not with the police for the under the table variety.

Finally, there is one supreme national necessity. The political class, not the bureaucracy - which represents the real civil supremacy better become more savvy on matters relating to the armed forces. Till then they are at the mercy of the civil service, who frequently play their own little war games. At ministerial level there are some very specialized departments eg Finance, Railways,Security (Home), Foreign and Defence, where split second decisions are necessary. It is always possible to find netas savvy in finance, foreign relations and railways. Security has been addressed in getting a former IPS officer as NSA at the level of a MoS.Is it time that a professional is also brought into the Defence Ministry as MoS? The sooner the better. In fact this will be better than a CoDS because the armed forces will have someone not constrained by the Army Act or Article 33 of the Constitution.Of course the loudest howls will come from the babus. The netas must realize that a divide and rule policy cannot work where the country's security is concerned. Recall 1962?

Our army, already engaged in activities not core to their functions, including rescuing babies from borewells, should not have to engage in civil wars over their pay scales. I only hope our defence minister or anyone who would take a reasonable stand for defence forces ever gets to see this article.

It would definitely affect any person with an iota of integrity

reproduced for GK by me
regards

https://www.facebook.com/notes/indi...-ias-officer-on-indian-army/10150306825225949
I hope this helps.

It is written by an IAS officer and not the military trying to be 'mysterious'.
 

Ray

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@Ray

That is a great article & it puts on all the facts which are totally true. My views will be more on the political situation towards our Army. I believe that the politics which has started right from 1947 by the congress have had their designs planned in undermining our Army. There is a socio-political issue in India as we know the common mans life & an army personnel's life holds no value for all the governments that have been in India. They only planned to wage a war when the parliament was attacked. In USA, Israel & Europe we never hear their media, ministers blaming & tarnishing the army. There are multiple cases of friendly fires or when the Blackwater killed civilians in Iraq, The Army image was never hampered in these countries.

The politics in India is of absolute dirt class. The Congress's policy of minority appeasement & keeping the Kashmir issue burning, hints at a much bigger agenda. We will never know as why the cross border terrorism has never ever been tackled seriously ? There have been blasts thru out our country, targeting civilians & army personnel & this keeps happening. Kashmir issue is THE only agenda for Pakistan & its survival of its politics.

I may sound like Robert Ludlum here based on my theory, but there is definitely something serious when the terrorism is kept alive & we are always on the defensive.
Please read Post #26, the article by the IAS Officer.
 
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Ray

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Sir,personally i feel that the Army is a bit biased to Northern India when it comes to recruitment.Bengal has always been neglected by the Army as a whole despite having large number of educated unemployed men who could join the Army and serve the nation.Recruitment rallies are very few in numbers when compared to Northern and Western Part of this country.Heck we don't even have a Bengal Regiment anymore(the last being dissoved way back in 1917) when every other state barring a few new ones has a regimet of its own.I know you'll point out that it has been the policy of the Indian Army not to create any new regiment based on regionalism or casteism ever since our independence but this lack of a dedicated Regiment has been a major reason why Bengalis are under-represented in the Indian Army.
Actually, earlier there were no quotas for States. Quotas came in some times back.

Quota is State or area based and not community based.

North India is a very large entity, compared to Bengal. That apart, the quotas are filled by those who are physically fitter and so one should not be surprised that those who have domicile certificates of Bengal get recruited in the Bengal quota and so is it in other States.

There are community based Regiments, but they are from the British times and hence are being carried along. Even in those, there are people from different States. For instance in the Rajput Regiment, there are Bengalis. In Mahar Regiment there are Bengalis, Oriyas, Gujarati companies.

Community based unit rationale is thus:
Single-class or "pure" regiments were raised during the Raj based on the classification of certain communities as "martial races". After 1947, India, however, decided to continue with these caste or community-based units because "regimental history, ethos and loyalty" was considered to be the main driving force in combat effectiveness and operational performance.

"Soldiers from the same clan fight better from the same foxhole. These tradition-bound regiments have proved themselves in combat in all conflicts since 1947. They should not be dismantled," said a major-general.

This "battalion esprit de corps" was quite evident during the 1999 Kargil conflict. Quizzed why they had made those daredevil assaults against fortified positions held by Pakistani intruders, the common refrain among jawans was that the "paltan's izzat" (the battalion's honour) was at stake, more than loftier notions about fighting for the flag and the country.

The aim after Independence has been to raise "All India-All Class" regiments, like the Brigade of Guards, where jawans are recruited from all over the country irrespective of class and percentage. "The endeavour is to progressively move towards such regiments," said a Brigadier.

In between these two are the "mixed" and "fixed" class units like the Grenadiers or the Mahar Regiment. The 4 Grenadiers, for instance, has two companies of Jats, one company of Muslims and one company of Dogras. Similarly, Rajputana Rifles has an equal mix between Rajputs and Jats, while the Rajput Regiment mainly has Rajputs and Gujars with a sprinkling of Muslims and Bengalis.

"Jawans, with similar language and eating habits, have kinship, brotherhood...they form a cohesive fighting force. Even in mixed class regiments like Grenadiers, individual companies - the basic fighting units — are `pure'," said a Colonel.

The other "fighting arms" like the armoured corps and artillery also have several instances of "pure" units among them. Many artillery medium or field regiments, for instance, are "pure" ones recruiting only Gorkhas, Sikhs, Jats, Ahirs or Marathas into their respective folds. But "support" arms like ASC, EME, Ordnance, Signals and the like are resolutely "all-class" units.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...on-caste-or-religion/articleshow/18248941.cms
In the Services and Artillery there is no community based recruitment except for a few units in the Artillery, which is a legacy of the past.

Because of these community-based divisions, there may be instances where certain regiments, like the Grenadiers, could have a higher proportion of Muslims.
Communally divisive statements are meaningless to servicemen: Premvir Das | Business Standard News
 

Tony HMG

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That is a very effective article by the IAS officer.Thanks.
I personally see no end to the cross border terrorism, it might got to centuries unless the leadership acts for the people.
 

Ray

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Superseded Officers: Handle them with Compassion
Maj Gen Mrinal Suman
is India's foremost expert in defence procurement procedures and offsets. He heads Defence Technical Assessment and Advisory Services Group of CII.

It is the saddest sight in any social gathering to find all superseded officers huddled together in a corner. They appear more comfortable interacting with each other, stay in the background and avoid intermingling with others, especially the senior officers. Their deportment, appearance and bearing show a discernible lack of zest. They go through the paces of a social evening in a detached manner. Apparently, supersession hits very hard.

Search for recognition is one of the pursuits which all human beings indulge in and continuously strive for. Promotions and advancement in career are important aspects of their aspirations. It is more so in the army where rank fixes one's place in the army's hierarchy and is a conspicuous demonstration of an officer's success in profession. Therefore, supersession hurts immensely and transforms personality overnight – many outgoing officers lose their 'spark', withdraw into their shell and become introverts.

Despite creation of additional appointments at the top, the manpower structure of the Indian army continues to be like a steep pyramid. Against the authorised strength of 46,500 officers, vacancies for generals and brigadiers are only 379 and 1088 respectively. It implies that the percentage of appointments of brigadier and above is a mere 3.2 percent. Most of the officers do not advance beyond the rank of colonel.

All service officers come through highly competitive examinations. Applicant to Post Ratio (APR) is a standard index used to indicate the number of candidates aspiring for the available posts through respective examinations. APR for the National Defence Academy varies between 450 and 500. As only one out of 450-500 candidates secures entry into NDA, it means that every selected candidate is brilliant and possesses necessary potential.

All cadets go through identical training and achieve the laid down standards before getting commissioned into the army. It proves that all young officers possess the same calibreThe system is reasonably fair and most officers gain promotions due to their own competence. However, there are many who benefit from regimental, caste and school affiliations. Parochialism and protégé-syndrome also influence promotions. In some cases, highly capable officers become victim of unfortunate circumstances or hostile environment; and they have no control over quirks of destiny.

Supersession Hurts

Supersession in itself is quite distressing. The severity of shock becomes extremely painful in case of the officers who are confident of getting approved for the next rank. Being unprepared for such a prospect, the blow has a devastating effect on their persona. Perversity of the current system of annual performance appraisal is responsible for giving false hopes to the officers.

The annual performance report consists of two parts. The first part contains assessment of personal qualities and demonstrated performance. It is shown to the officer reported upon. The second part contains comments on his potential for promotion and is not shown to the assessed officer. at the start of their careers.

As the steep pyramid-like structure provides limited promotional avenues, many officers fail to make to higher ranks. Many brilliant officers suffer due to the shortage of vacancies and retire as colonels.

Lacking moral courage and with a view to keep their officers in good humour, many assessing officers grade their subordinates at 8 points and above (on a scale of 1 to 9 points) in the first part. Secure in the knowledge that the officers reported upon would never learn about the contents of the second part, unscrupulous assessing officers mark them as unfit for promotion.

As the shown part invariably borders on 'outstanding' grade, the officers reported upon become certain of getting promoted. The news of their non-approval comes as a bolt from the blue and they get shell-shocked. They fail to understand as to why they have been overlooked despite their outstanding reports. As is natural, they feel wronged and lose faith in the fairness of the system. With very few exit options, they do not know how to cope up with the heartbreak.

In a command oriented army, supersession impacts the psyche of the affected officers immensely and becomes a traumatic experience for them and their families. Many start suffering from acute persecution-complex and show signs of professional and social withdrawal.

Absurdity and Insensitivity of Organisational Response

Most unfairly, non-approval for promotion has come to carry an element of stigma of professional incompetence. It is forgotten that in a highly competitive environment, it is invariably a question of a few decimal points in the report that makes the difference in inter-se appraisal for the limited vacancies.

The organisation's handling of the superseded officers is both irrational and insensitive. Instead of reassuring the officers that they are valued members of the organisation, it does just the opposite. Rather than assuaging their feelings, it intensifies their sense of hurt through thoughtless treatment.

It presupposes that all superseded officers would lack motivation to excel. Even highly qualified and competent officers are posted to lesser appointments, thereby wasting their potential. Worse, it sends a wrong signal to the affected officers, showing organisation's lack of confidence in their commitment to deliver. They are treated as a liability which the organisation has to carry till their superannuation.
It is a very painful experience for the affected officers when they realise that their dedication to the organisation is considered suspect. Such an insulting treatment increases the hurt manifold – first a hopeful officer is denied promotion and then he is considered untrustworthy for important appointments.
( one of the major reasons why officers in the middle ranks put in their papers and quit)

In a hierarchical organisation like the army, social events cannot be totally free from rank consideration. However, blatant social discrimination or what is euphemistically called 'social apartheid' is highly appalling and hurtful. It makes superseded officers wary of mixing with those who have achieved higher ranks. Social inequities add to their discomfort.

When queried, a superseded officer was candid enough to share his feelings – "In a party, I was talking to a Brigadier, an old friend and a course-mate. The waiter offered scotch whiskey to him in a crystal glass and pulled the tray away when I tried to pick a glass stating that another waiter was bringing my whiskey. It was a terribly humiliating experience."

Another officer asked a very pointed question – "I know that I have been found unfit for the next rank, but why must it be rubbed-in at all times? Why make us feel like lesser officers? It hurts more when my wife is treated equally shabbily in social functions."

Finally

The government has taken a number of measures to mitigate the adverse effect of supersession on the financial remunerations and the retirement age. However, it is the treatment meted out to such officers by the army that needs correction.

Instead of boosting the self-confidence of the superseded officers by reposing faith in their competence and reassuring them that they are valued members of the organisation, the army does just the opposite. Rather than 'wasting them out' on inconsequential appointments, their potential must be utilised. (given the appointment structure and the QR, this becomes a huge problems to slot even if one wanted to do so)

To start with, the current system of showing demonstrated performance and hiding potential promotes must be replaced either by an open or a closed appraisal system. False hopes should not be raised as disappointment can be heart breaking.

Secondly, most superseded officers possess vast experience. They welcome assignments of responsibility and excel in them. Conscious of their self-respect, they put in extra effort to ensure that no fingers are ever raised at their commitment and dedication.

Finally, the army must understand the sensitivities of the superseded officers and their families. They should be handled with due care and empathy. As is the norm, there should be no rank-based discrimination in the messes. Social inequities are an anathema to army culture and it breeds a sense of alienation among the superseded officers. Instead of considering them as 'dead load', their skills should be exploited. The army can ill-afford to let the potential of half of its officers' strength remain untapped.

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/superseded-officers-handle-them-with-compassion/
The series of articles I have appended are available on the internet.

For a balanced and informed debate on issues, it is wise to 'research' before pontificating as Sir Oracles and know alls.

This forum as many others are read by many who are searching knowledge and thus glib and sweeping statements without looking at the issue holistically and giving the impression as one in the know, can mislead people into contrarian views from the reality of the issue.

Even I, with a vast experience in the Forces, am very careful to comment on issues of the military of which I have sparse knowledge without some research.

At the same time, in no way, am I asking folks to curb debates.

Please do, it is educative for all. For the one wanting further information and thus, knowledge, and for those who know, yet another viewpoint.

But let us not be glib and act all knowing.

And that also applies to me. That is why I append articles to indicate what is perceived to be the reality.

There is a famous saying of Tagore - What you see is not you. What you see is your shadow.

That is why I always take it that I, too, do not know all aspects of an issue and hence borrow from others better equipped and more articulate and so I reseach and append their articles and their views.
 
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sgarg

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@Ray, I shall try to summarise.

Point 1: Disparity between IAS, IPS and military service

There is a clear problem in IAS and IPS. The performance grading must be the dominating factor in promotions, which is clearly not happening. IAS and IPS are politicized as well as these services take advantage of politicians. The military is unaffected by these political factors and military continues with its own systems.

Here the need is to fix IAS and IPS, not military. Promotion based on performance is logical.

Point 2: Availability of promotional avenues

As you mentioned, Army is a steep pyramid. The promotions are slow and many officers never make it beyond middle ranks. Many officers leave early due to that.
From my civilian viewpoint, movement of army officers to civilian field is good. They transmit a culture of discipline and organization which is must in civilian field too. Opportunities for military officers MUST exist outside military world as it is a fact that a number of military officers have to leave due to unavailability of promotional aspects. This makes it necessary to increase intake in NDA as you have to factor in the attrition. This is how we planned in the software field. We always hired a number x per year which was a sum of y (annual requirement) + z (average attrition). If you consider military to be a "professional" service, then attrition should be a part of planning.

Point 3: Requirements of a soldier (physical, mental, value system etc.) - these have to be built into school systems. Schools have to produce the manpower the nation needs. If schools and society are unable to match certain requirements, then everybody, military included will have to compromise. Here one can learn from other countries, specially countries of East Asia as to how they recruit and manage their militaries.
 
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sgarg

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The Indian Army takes as per the requirement considering all aspects to include promotion avenues and morale.

The problem arise is that there are too many mid stream 'drop outs' (premature retirement) given various factors to include better remunerations in the civil society. If those who do not wish to continue are prevented from quitting, then they will be disgruntled and their attitude would be detrimental to discipline and morale. Catch 22.

It might be added that today's officer is not the same as before. They are very career conscious and put their career prospect ahead of the organisational interest. This was not so before. Therefore, while ensuring that their military career is going on, they also study alongside acquiring degrees that will equip them for a civil job on retirement or when they are superseded and want to quit or when they see a better opportunity in the civil market.

There is no caste base in the Army since there is no caste quotas as in other Govt departments. So, I wonder what made you mention this since you claim to know the panacea for all the ills of the military.
I do not claim to have a panacea for the army.

Army continues with a regimental system where each regiment recruits from a certain caste (or certain region). Certain regions / certain identities of citizens are heavily represented in the army while some others are practically left out.

The regimental system is good no doubt and has stood the test of time. At the same time, other sections of society (which were not favoured by the British for military service) also need to get a taste of military service.

Your point about NCC is good. But NCC has got diluted as there is no reward attached to NCC. Many countries have compulsory military service which comes with some rewards (as preference in government jobs, tuition credits in universities etc.). NCC is like a hobby, which becomes very tough for students who are in a hyper-competitive environment.

Anyway this is the news about NCC:

The Centre has decided to add 3.5 lakh more cadets to the NCC, taking the strength of the country's lone military youth movement to 18.5 lakh from the existing 15 lakh.

The decision was taken at the Central Advisory Committee meeting of the National Cadet Corps (NCC) chaired by Minister of State for Defence Jitendra Singh here recently.

"The meeting focused on issues which would galvanise the NCC further and reduce the waiting list of educational institutions, which as on date stands at 4,613 schools and 2,764 colleges within the country.

"Some of these institutions have applied for the NCC units nearly 25 years ago and their aspirations are yet to be met," said an NCC release on Thursday.
NCC strength to grow by 3.5 lakh cadets - The New Indian Express

This news show huge interest in military in country's youth.
 

sgarg

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Military discipline: recast officer cadre by Lt Gen Harwant Singh

Military discipline: recast officer cadre » Indian Defence Review

The possible structure of such a recast could be forty percent regular officers and sixty percent short service commissioned officers, with the latter group given assured absorption for all, into various Central Police Organizations, civil services etc, with some percentage given reserved seats on management and other professional courses with full pay during the period of training.
 

TrueSpirit1

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IAS and IPS are politicized as well as these services take advantage of politicians. The military is unaffected by these political factors and military continues with its own systems.
Stating that all military appointments are bereft of any political influence is being too naive. All promotions above Brig. level & recently, even below that rank, are affected in some or the other way.

Here the need is to fix IAS and IPS, not military. Promotion based on performance is logical.
Wrong. Pay-scales (irrespective of rank, & based on service tenure) & promotional avenues (e.g. creation of Col. General rank is one example) of military need to be brought at par with IAS. Reducing payscales of IAS/IPS cadre is simply not going to take-off the dream-alley.

This is how we planned in the software field. We always hired a number x per year which was a sum of y (annual requirement) + z (average attrition). If you consider military to be a "professional" service, then attrition should be a part of planning.
Again, extremely simplistic argument. Are you unable to fathom that simply increasing headcount (without an accompanied increase in formations to be commanded) increases the relative % of dissatisfied heads ? This would only exacerbate the situation instead of ameliorating it.

The article shared by Ray Sir had shared some feasible solutions.

Point 3: Requirements of a soldier (physical, mental, value system etc.) - these have to be built into school systems. Schools have to produce the manpower the nation needs. If schools and society are unable to match certain requirements, then everybody, military included will have to compromise.
Think Sainik schools/Military schools. Been there since 1960 & 1 of them existed even earlier. They are doing a ok job.

Here one can learn from other countries, specially countries of East Asia as to how they recruit and manage their militaries.
What makes you think that East Asian countries are managing their forces any better than we do ? Are they not politicized at all ? Do they handle 24 x 7 x 365 insurgencies, cross-border terrorism, full-time, all year-round disaster relief & peace-keeping duties in disturbed areas ?

Please put forth some arguments why our Armed forces need to learn for East Asian nations, & not vice-versa ? Last I heard, all the military powers in the world flock to our combat-training schools & maintain a schedule of regular wargames with our forces.

Most East Asian nation themselves use our facilities to train their pilots, airmen & infantry.
 
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TrueSpirit1

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TrueSpirit1

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@sgarg Another truism: The really bright ones (not just academically) prefer other careers over joining Armed forces. Forces are quite low in the pecking order for our youth, overall.

This buttresses the above point: Interest ≠ Ability

Is the youth mulling IA/IAF/IN as their primary career avenue actually deserves the forces, is worth mulling over. Not casting aspersion over anyone, but the quandary is: Forces prefer to recruit the best (at least they are supposed to & the recruitment system is geared towards that requirement). But, the best is simply not interested.

Do we have to fix the IAS/IPS for that ?

Nopes, fix the military services, to be able to realistically project themselves as a worthwhile career option (for THE BEST), on par with IAS/IPS.


But why am I stating the obvious ?
 
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sgarg

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@TrueSpirit1, one has to think out of the box if a solution is to be found.

We cannot keep thinking in the same mold year after year.

*************
I personally think Sainik School model is a mistake.

Military must come from general public. We need to see love of Army in every school.

Military and citizens are inseparable. If there is total war, then a large number of citizens will have to contribute to the war effort.

The ability - physical fitness, shooting skill etc. is needed in a lot of people. India's army is not big enough to protect India adequately. A large backup in citizens is a must.
 
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Kharavela

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@sgarg Another truism: The really bright ones (not just academically) prefer other careers over joining Armed forces. Forces are quite low in the pecking order for our youth, overall.

This buttresses the above point: Interest ≠ Ability

Is the youth mulling IA/IAF/IN as their primary career avenue actually deserves the forces, is worth mulling over. Not casting aspersion over anyone, but the quandary is: Forces prefer to recruit the best (at least they are supposed to & the recruitment system is geared towards that requirement). But, the best is simply not interested.

Do we have to fix the IAS/IPS for that ?

Nopes, fix the military services, to be able to realistically project themselves as a worthwhile career option (for THE BEST), on par with IAS/IPS.


But why am I stating the obvious ?
As far as I understand, this is because India does not respect & remember its #HEROES who have sacrificed their life for the nation. Still we do not have National War Memorial for our martyrs. We do not read them in our textbooks. Families of martyrs have to beg (literally) for their Rights. Bureaucracy look upon them with disdain. Except tokenism, even media doesn't invoke the valour of those Heroes whereas the same media invoke Gandhi & Nehru at regular intervals.
 
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sgarg

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@Kharavela, I agree. I think first thing we need is a fund for needy military families to cover mundane things like education of children etc. Financial support is a right of the family of every martyr.

I fully agree with setting up a national war memorial, as well as inclusion of stories based on modern war heroes in the history books.
 
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Ray

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General Michael Rose, who commanded UN forces in Bosnia, and who I had the privilege of hosting, is unusual among his peers in his frankness: 'No other group in society is required either to kill other human beings, or expressly sacrifice themselves for the nation.' Essentially, the soldier's job is to kill or threaten to kill and accept the risk of being killed or injured.

Given that the purpose of armed forces is not self-evidently benign and that the job of soldiers is a mortally dangerous one primarily requiring the killing of other people, who would freely choose to make this their career choice? Put another way: how do the social and political elite of nation states persuade enough people to fight their wars?

Given the fact that military service expects an attitude demands psychologically unusual human response that runs counter to societal norms, it requires conditioning of the mind to respond involuntarily to these stimuli where one is required either to kill other human beings, or expressly sacrifice themselves for the nation.

It is thus essential that one gets candidates who are young and who can be moulded to build up the character that responds to this requirement for the unusual human response in service of the nation - a response that no other group in society is required to so since it is a well known fact that once a person attains a certain age, ideas and character is well formed and no moulding of the mind is feasible to the extent required to acquire the unusual psychology essential for the military.

To that extent, in keeping with the 'catch them young' concept, Sainik Schools, Military Schools and the RIMC is doing a yeoman's service wherein not only are these schools giving them formal education but are also inculcating the character requirement for the military, and the format is 24 x 7.

The NCC is a part time involvement for the students. While NCC does build up certain qualities and of that there is no doubt, yet it cannot and does not produce the essentials necessary to build up the qualities to respond to the military requirement of mental, physical, and more importantly, psychological response.

If it could then there would be no requirement to have a Service Selection Board and instead anyone passing the UPSC should have been automatically suitable to be a candidate for a military training institution.

Men being recruited do not have to go through any type of SSB selection. It is adequate for them to be physically, medically fit and pass a very elementary written test. Also, it is a known fact that the men,be they officers or troopers, are 'softer' than the people who were recruited in the earlier times. Therefore, they are more prone to creature comforts and are susceptible to mood swings. These mood swings have an adverse effect and hence possibly the reason for suicides and fratricides., phenomena that were absent in the earlier times, even when the situation was way way worse than it is now.

Therefore, there is also a requirement to start the Boys Company of the old times as also continue to have younger recruitment of officers as was done in earlier times so that all ranks are mentally conditioned to develop characteristics that can take hardship, as also respond to the unusual human responses that is essential to those in the military.

Just a passing thought.

*********************

In so far as education is concerned, there is no requirement for any funds. The pay for all ranks is decent and they have the option of automatic admission to KVs, which are schools of standard.

The martyred families surely require a greater attention than what is said to being done.
 
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