RFP issued for India navy amphibious vessels (LHD or LPD type)

[abingdonboy]

Makes sense this project will take approximately ten years to complete by then naval LCA will be ready for deployment on these ships. Juan Carlos class will be a very good choice..

N-LCA will never operate from anything other than a aircraft carrier, the IN is not interested in fixed wing aviation beyond their carriers.

 

[salute]

@Anupu
only if india buys few f 35 then these jets are gonna be on lpd's but india not gonna buy f 35 so only helicopters gonna be on lpd's.

 

[abingdonboy]

@Anupu
only if india buys few f 35 then these jets are gonna be on lpd's but india not gonna buy f 35 so only helicopters gonna be on lpd's.

Even with F-35s the IN's LHD would have to have special surface coating for the deck as the F-35B's engine is ENOURMOUSLY hot.

The In is never going to get F-35s and they aren't interested in fixed wing a/c on their LHD.

 

[salute]

Even with F-35s the IN's LHD would have to have special surface coating for the deck as the F-35B's engine is ENOURMOUSLY hot.

The In is never going to get F-35s and they aren't interested in fixed wing a/c on their LHD.

me not advocating f 35 either,

just saying only if they buys f 35 then its gonna be on lhd's.

 

[Superdefender]

Americans have made structural changes to the surface deck of their ships to resist the highly hot downward heat thrust of F-35B. I don't think that will happen in our LHDs. Guessing that only rotary wing choppers will operate from them.

 

[kstriya]

N-LCA will never operate from anything other than a aircraft carrier, the IN is not interested in fixed wing aviation beyond their carriers.

Juan Carlos class comes with a ski jump deck which will facilitate NLCA to be operated on LPD/LHD. Why do we need to buy costly F35 when we have a home-grown solution. And at the price of a squadron of F35 we can have a LHD with a NLCA squadron on it.

 

[SajeevJino]

Juan Carlos class comes with a ski jump deck which will facilitate NLCA to be operated on LPD/LHD. Why do we need to buy costly F35 when we have a home-grown solution. And at the price of a squadron of F35 we can have a LHD with a NLCA squadron on it.

are you doing the arresting gear and hanger works in the Juan carlos

 

[kstriya]

are you doing the arresting gear and hanger works in the Juan carlos

Do you think the ski jump deck on Juan Carlos class is for winter sports! if required a arrestor can be employed..

 

[Anupu]

Do you think the ski jump deck on Juan Carlos class is for winter sports! if required a arrestor can be employed..

It's for amphibious assault and I think it would make less sense to use space for anything but that, I mean some missions may demand a fixed wing CAS aircraft, but most will have rotary attack aircraft. I don't know can anyone there are reports of a larger LHD too. But I don't think it would be used as a pocket aircraft carrier in regular patrol or deployment.

 

[abingdonboy]

Do you think the ski jump deck on Juan Carlos class is for winter sports! if required a arrestor can be employed..

Juan Carlos class comes with a ski jump deck which will facilitate NLCA to be operated on LPD/LHD. Why do we need to buy costly F35 when we have a home-grown solution. And at the price of a squadron of F35 we can have a LHD with a NLCA squadron on it.

The Juan Carlos might have a ski ramp but they don't have arrestor gear and fitting them onto a ship is not a simple task but would require MASSIVE re-design work and would take up a lot of internal space thereby deminishing the ship's load carrying capacity. It might not even be possible.

 

[Zebra]

F-35 B.........................!

Heat-resistant coatings might be required on deck of LHD Juan Carlos.

On top of it, fuel for F-35 B.

 

[SajeevJino]

Do you think the ski jump deck on Juan Carlos class is for winter sports! if required a arrestor can be employed..

That's for Jump jets like F 35 B and AV 8B, not for LCA and MiG 29K

 

[Gessler]

Don't you all guys think it's funny when Navy asks for an LHD and everyone wants to give them a STOVL/STOBAR carrier instead ?

 

[Zebra]

Don't you all guys think it's funny when Navy asks for an LHD and everyone wants to give them a STOVL/STOBAR carrier instead ?

If I am not wrong, they are looking for LPD .

 

[kstriya]

If I am not wrong, they are looking for LPD .

Reposting
The Case for Pocket Aircraft Carriers for Indian Navy

Published November 4, 2015 | By admin


SOURCE: JOHANAN COLLINS / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG





Following the defeat of Imperial Germany during the First World War, the Triple Entity spearheaded by a vengeful France enforced humiliating limits on the number and size of the ships the German navy could operate. Any replacement ships that the German navy could induct had to displace less than 10,000 tons. When compared to the 35,000 ton leviathans that the great powers could build, this stung the Germans.

The German Navy worked around the Treaty of Versailles limitations by design three pocket battleships. These ships could outgun a heavy cruiser and outrun a battleship, in short they were faster than anything more powerful and more powerful than anything faster. They were the Deutschland class which consisted of the Deutschland, Admiral Scheer and Admiral Graf Spee. They displaced between 10,770 tons to 12,540 tons and had a heavy armament of six 11 inch main guns.

The Indian Navy plans to build and induct four Landing Helicopter Docks (LHD) as multirole vessels. These ships would have a length between 200 meters and 230 meters and a gross tonnage of 40,000 tons. This makes this class of vessels slightly smaller than INS Vikramaditya at 45,500 tons and the new INS Vikrant at 40,000 tons. These LHD’s are actually a lot larger than the old carriers INS Vikrant and INS Viraat. INS Vikrant weighed in at 19,500 tons with a length of 213 meters while INS Viraat weighed in at 28,700 tons with a length of 226.5 meters. The LHD’s will have a well dock for amphibious operations. These LHD’s are expected to have a carriage of combat vehicles on one or more decks and embark troops and tanks. This class of ships are expected to carry ten heavy helicopters in the range of 35 tons. The contenders for the contract are, France’s Mistral class, Spain’s Juan Carlos class, South Korea’s Dokodo class and Italy’s Multi-function Ship.





The concept of operating LHD’s has gained popularity over the globe. Japan, South Korea, China, Italy, England, Spain, France, Russia, Algeria, Australia and the USA all operate or are in the process of inducting LHD’s. The Australian Canberra class is based on Spain’s Juan Carlos Multifunction ship. This ship is a true multifunction ship. These ships are able to operate fixed winged aircraft like the Harrier and the F35B due to a presence of a sky jump. They are also capable of conducting amphibious operations by embarking and disembarking troops and tanks.

LHD’s by nature are useful but have a short offensive capability due to their main weapons being the helicopters they embark. In order to increase the offensive punch of Indian Navy, India should convert the LHD’s into pocket carriers like the Juan Carlos class. The Indian Navy should embark the LCA Tejas (Navy) on the LHD’s. The Tejas is a lightweight fighter of 15.5 tons which would make it one of the lightest shipborne fighters second only to the Harrier which weighs in at 14 tons. The Harrier is on the verge of being retired by all it user.

The only options for the Indian Naval “pocket aircraft carriers” apart from the LCA Navy would be the F35B and F35C which weigh in at 27.3 tons and 30 tons respectively. The LHD’s may be able to operate these aircraft but cost of acquiring them is prohibitive. The F35B costs 251 million USD for each aircraft, while the F35C costs 116 million USD for each aircraft. The cost of a squadron of 12 aircraft would cost 3.12 billion USD for the F35B, making the squadron more expensive than all four LHD’s which would cost 2.6 billion USD. A F35C squadron of 12 aircraft would cost 1.16 billion USD which would make the squadron cost come close to the cost of two LHD’s. The LCA Navy cost 31.1 million USD for each aircraft. The entire squadron would cost 373 million USD.

In order to safely operate fixed wing aircraft that are not STOVL or VSTOL aircraft carriers would need to have an angled flight deck. All current LHD designs are straight decked, which works perfectly fine for helicopters and Harriers which have traditionally flown off LHD’s. The LCA Navy is a STOBAR carrier and would need an angled flight deck for safe operations, much like traditional carriers being operated the world over. This would require a change in the design of the LHD’s to convert their straight deck flight decks to angled flight decks. This is possible as it has been done before by the US Navy for their Essex class carriers which were designed and built during the Second World War. A total of 14 ships were converted in the 1950’s.

From an operational view point the LHD’s are large targets with huge radar cross sections, which would act as a beacon to enemy radar. An enemy ship may be able to get close enough to fire a salvo of cruise missiles at the LHD, the protective ships will be able to retaliate and sink the enemy ship but there is still a chance that the enemy cruise missiles will hit the LHD. If the LHD has the LCA Navy embarked on it, the LCA will be able to discover the enemy ship before it gets into range because of its large flight radius when compared to shipborne helicopters. The LCA would also be able to attack the enemy ship with cruise missiles before the ship got into range.

The Indian Navy should redesign the LHD’s as true multifunctional vessels by making them pocket aircraft carriers before the shipyards start building the LHD’s and a rebuild would increase cost of the program. This would make the Indian Navy of the 2030’s a seven carrier navy and a true blue water navy and make the Indian Ocean India’s Ocean.

Going back to the days of the Second World War, the three pocket battleships punched way above their weight. They tied up considerable allied naval resources and forced the allies to use a lot of force to destroy them. In a similar way these pocket aircraft carriers would punch far above their weight and tie up considerable enemy forces in an event of a war

 

[Zebra]

Reposting
The Case for Pocket Aircraft Carriers for Indian Navy

Published November 4, 2015 | By admin


SOURCE: JOHANAN COLLINS / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG
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.
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I am a LHD supporter.

 

[kstriya]

I am a LHD supporter.

I am a LHD supporter too but we have limited budget so a multiple purpose vessel which can deploy a squadron i.e. 18 NLCA at time of war and also act like a LHD as its primary role. The JUAN Carlos class fulfils the requirement by design. As all future naval vessels will be built in India we can have Navatia as consultants to integrate the NLCA in the LHD.

This is purely wishful thinking hope fir naval commanders have better plan to have maximum value for money.

 

[Zebra]

I am a LHD supporter too but we have limited budget so a multiple purpose vessel which can deploy a squadron i.e. 18 NLCA at time of war and also act like a LHD as its primary role. The JUAN Carlos class fulfils the requirement by design. As all future naval vessels will be built in India we can have Navatia as consultants to integrate the NLCA in the LHD.

This is purely wishful thinking hope fir naval commanders have better plan to have maximum value for money.

Sir, please check post #134 and #141 of this thread. Unfortunately that beautiful video in post #134 is unavailable now.

And if they can accommodate NLCA on it, than it is the best.

 

[Gessler]

If I am not wrong, they are looking for LPD .

They actually classify it as "LPH" Landing Platform Helicopter.

In other words, LHD.

 

[kstriya]

They actually classify it as "LPH" Landing Platform Helicopter.

In other words, LHD.

LHD - Landing Helicopter Dock.................

......