Rafael in $1b Indian anti-tank missile deal

p2prada

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All noble reasons, just watch out for the logistics. Between the logistics intensive HF radio network, Namica and Akash, it is going to be a pain. I would like to see IA buy something that actually decreases its footprint.
IAF and IA are playing mix and match as they have always done since "Royal" was removed from their names. We will standardize only after 2020 on particular products. For eg: IAF will standardize on PAKFA and AMCA after 2020. IA will standardize on FMBT and a new type of IFV that is currently on the drawing board along with some F-INSAS rifle or the other.

Currently having multiple logistics chain will force the enemy to have multiple countermeasures as well. This works in our favour since Pakistan isn't particularly rich enough to match us. If Al-Khalid countermeasures succeed against Nag, they will possibly fail against Spike since the seekers will use different frequencies and vice versa.
 

nitesh

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Spike range is 2-2.5km (correct me if i am wrong). Then it is in different class then Nag, how it is supposed to replace that?
 

Kunal Biswas

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When Spike is capable of destroying all modern armour, there is no difference in class.
Namica is a BMP-2 chassis with a deck mount that requires a reload vehicle because Nag is too heavy to upload by hand.
That is really going to increase your logistics footprint.
Its Simple, Bigger warhead better results, The carriers is capable of carrying 12 missiles with 8 in ready-to-fire mode. Unlike other in same category NAMICA carry more missiles in RTF mode, Its not know its reload manually or mechanically..

Logestic is not a big issue coz we already managing multi types of wepeonary with ease, In future more Indigenous system will dominate our military as its known import is not a option with newer thread we facing..

Import only make sense when crises is imminent..
 

Armand2REP

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IAF and IA are playing mix and match as they have always done since "Royal" was removed from their names. We will standardize only after 2020 on particular products. For eg: IAF will standardize on PAKFA and AMCA after 2020. IA will standardize on FMBT and a new type of IFV that is currently on the drawing board along with some F-INSAS rifle or the other.
MMRCA and T-90s are going to be around past 2040, kind of hard to standardise when you keep importing new equipment. Considering the large amount of T-90s purchased, that is going to be the dominant force of the IA for the next half century on a tank that is already obsolete according to the Supreme General of Russian Ground Forces.

Currently having multiple logistics chain will force the enemy to have multiple countermeasures as well. This works in our favour since Pakistan isn't particularly rich enough to match us. If Al-Khalid countermeasures succeed against Nag, they will possibly fail against Spike since the seekers will use different frequencies and vice versa.
There is truth to that in regards to missiles, but it doesn't apply much to the actual platforms which are the real headache of logistics.
 

Armand2REP

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Its Simple, Bigger warhead better results, The carriers is capable of carrying 12 missiles with 8 in ready-to-fire mode. Unlike other in same category NAMICA carry more missiles in RTF mode, Its not know its reload manually or mechanically..
That deck mount only holds four missiles. Where do you get 8? I was not talking about individual loads, I was talking about off-vehicle loads. There is a special vehicle with a crane that has to load the missiles into the rest position on Namica since they weigh as much as a Hellfire. Guys loading Spike can just pull it off the back of any vehicle and snap them into place.

Logestic is not a big issue coz we already managing multi types of wepeonary with ease, In future more Indigenous system will dominate our military as its known import is not a option with newer thread we facing..
Not a big isssue? It is the IAs biggest problem.

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/defence industry/Revolution-in-military-logistics.html

Import only make sense when crises is imminent..
The winner of any war is the one who wins the battle of logistics.
 

Kunal Biswas

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8 also check articles on it..

Namica don't use Crane, Its not known abt loading procedure on public media..

That article contain some truth, but i have posted what i know from my experience..

Correct..
 
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Vladimir79

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That deck mount only holds four missiles. Where do you get 8? I was not talking about individual loads, I was talking about off-vehicle loads. There is a special vehicle with a crane that has to load the missiles into the rest position on Namica since they weigh as much as a Hellfire. Guys loading Spike can just pull it off the back of any vehicle and snap them into place.



Not a big isssue? It is the IAs biggest problem.

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/defence industry/Revolution-in-military-logistics.html



The winner of any war is the one who wins the battle of logistics.
No mate, it holds 8. I agree reload will be difficult and logistics will be a pain. But Nag is domestic built (largely), kicks ass, and meets a strategic need of the army. They really don't have any choice but to buy it as it is one of the few successful programmes of their missile drive 20 years ago. To not buy it would mean DRDO missile projects has been one huge waste of time.
 

Kunal Biswas

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They really don't have any choice but to buy it as it is one of the few successful programmes of their missile drive 20 years ago. To not buy it would mean DRDO missile projects has been one huge waste of time.
I read criticism in your post.. :)

IA would not approve it if it was a fail..

Trisul is a good example, NAG is best ATGM at cheap, Needless to say best ATGM army is in use..
 

nrj

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Spike or Javelin? India Still Undecided on a Billion Dollar Missile Buy

The Indian Army is planning to equip its ground forces with thousands of anti-tank missiles to be built in India. The Indian military considers two options, both of them exclusive – the FGM-148 Javelin, proposed under a Government-to-Government (G2G) program via U.S. Foreign Military Sale (FMS), and the Spike MR, proposed by Israel's Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, being the only bidder in an international tender, which specified characteristics and specifications only the Israeli company could meet.


The Indian MOD is still undecided on which missile will replace its current Milan 2. The U.S. is offering the FGM-148 Javelin as part of a Foreign Military Sale program

The Indian Army plans to install the missiles on infantry combat vehicles currently carrying locally produced AT-5 or Milan missiles.

The Indian Ministry of Defense plans to order 321 launchers, and 8,356 missiles, plus 15 training simulators in a multi-phase arms package worth over one billion US$. Two options are currently on the table – the U.S. Javelin and the Israeli Spike MR.

The current decision by the Indian authorities clears the way for an official selection of Rafael as a preferred supplier of the missile but does not guarantee winning the order, since as a single supplier a company is most exposed to procedural and bureaucratic objections that are likely to delay the program, enabling competitors to gain pressure in hope for a wind change at the Indian MOD. Overall, a single supplier status is often approved for short term programs, justified by rapidly addressing urgent operational requirements. (An examplem is the recent French acquisition of Javelin missiles, to equip its units in Afghanistan.)


India Plans to buy thousands of Israeli Spike missile to equip its armored infantry fighting vehicles

Recent news reports (Defense News 24 June, 2010 and 24 March, 2011) claimed both companies have won the program. Both are premature, and, technically, both can be correct, as the Indians have not made their selection yet. Both programs are proceeding in parallel channels; each has its own advantages and obstacles. Eventually, only one channel will be selected – either the open bid contract or the G2G path. The later means the work share Indian companies will get would be minimal (unless Lockheed Martin and Raytheon will be authorized by the U.S. government to outsource Javelin work to India, a procedure that hasn't been approved yet). In addition to limited local production will not be possible, as the procurement would be made through the U.S. Army channels and, as such, is likely to be more expensive than the Israeli alternative. On the positive side, the G2G path is less susceptible to public scrutiny and bureaucratic obstacles, and therefore, could be available in short term.

The open selection means the process will be longer, yet offer much more Indian industrial involvement, technology transfer, and local production, in addition to the benefit of offset, as mandated by the Indian government.

Rafael being the only bidder in this tender, the Indian Army had to obtain a special permit to sign a deal on the basis of a tender with just one potential vendor. While technology transfer is a big issue in India, another reason for the absence of competitors was the Indian insistence on unique weapons performance – the Indians demanded that the missiles will enable "active-passive fire-and-forget guidance system", which only Rafael can offer. Off the shelf third generation (3G) missiles are employing passive sensors to lock on the target before launch, and perform 'fire and forget' engagement.At present, only the Spike can offer 'active passive 3G fire and forget' – the ability for the user to correct the missile's aiming in flight, as it closes in on the target, thus offering the 'active' element of the engagement.

While the Indian Army is currently interested in the medium range version of Spike, other requirements also include will longer range guided weapons which could offer the Spike an advantage in establishing a common logistics, training and support.

As industrial participation and technology transfer, if Rafael eventually wins the order, the Indians will get the first deliveries of missiles from Israel but Rafael is likely to shift production to India, as it successfully have done in other markets, some of the recent examples include Poland and Spain. In India, Rafael is likely to work with Bharat Dynamics Ltd., an Indian government-owned company specialized in missile development and production. In addition to missile assembly, India could produce most of the system, particularly if Rafael is successful in negotiating the joint venture it plans with Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL), in establishing a private, India based company to produce missile seekers for air/air and surface/air missiles. This JV could also address the Spike's EO seekers.

Source
 
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