Please hindus, don't say: "All Religions are the Same"

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by Vishwarupa, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    @asingh10 - your post reminded me of an email I had got about 2 months back. it was from the Agniveer team, and was about a book that Mr. Sanjeev and his team had written and launched, demolishing the pop-myths surrounding the 'life-and-death' issue of 'beef-eating'. I was at sea at that time and unfortunately couldn't check it and forgot about it later. thanks to your post I got reminded again. did you know about it?
     
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  2. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Quoting Islamist propoganda sites and flip flopping on FOS when it comes to Islam pretty much gives away his agenda.

    There are plenty of Hindu sources themselves he could have picked to prove the claim of Beef.

    But this guy chooses Islamic websites that are themed around proselytizing Hindus. Why do you think that is?
     
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  3. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    @asingh10 - and yes, regarding the Chishti....am surprised at what you've quoted about him. not aware of the truth. however, one thing I would say which would be apt to this thread, that in the normal Hindu I think it has been traditionally fostered (by co-community people and by experiences) that 'all religions are equal', and probably thus his reverence for all Yogis, saints and supposed saints. I write this because I've read one deceased gentleman's experiences of phenomena from the beyond, with Moinuddin Chishti. but I now contrast that with the experience of one more person, a Bengali exorcist of the 1900s, who used to claim that most of these 'sufis' have/had some decent-to-good command over the black arts, and thus could even 'operate' to varying extent after their bodily demise, the more crooked ones among them then 'captivating' the psyches of some visiting their shrines; I now suspect the Chishti to also be one of those albeit more adroit at his 'thing'. don't know.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
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  4. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    Jains in MP revere a lady Jain Muni (can't recall her name). she used to be a princess some 400-500 yrs ago, and it was during her wedding ceremony that she was aghast at the sight of a number of cattle and animals herded up to be slaughtered for the wedding-feast. upon being enquired by the bridegroom for her worry, she explained her predicament and pain to him, and said she wanted to renounce worldly affairs, and did so. the bridegroom became her disciple.
     
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  5. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

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    This is exactly what I meant!! :)
     
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  6. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Agniveer is wrong about beef. Here's a good article from shatavadhani :-

    http://indiafacts.org/the-hindu-view-on-food-and-drink/

    And keep in mind this is an "Right wing" source.

    Also apart from this story of Maharaja Rantideva who sacrificed 2000 cattle in his kitchen everyday to feed the poor in his kingdom.

    "And in days of yore, O Brahmana, two thousand animals used to be killed every day in the kitchen of king Rantideva; and in the same manner two thousand cows were killed every day; and, O best of regenerate beings, king Rantideva acquired unrivalled reputation by distributing food with meat every day."

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03207.htm


    Hindus don't need to be apologetic about this, everyone has evolved from a Hunter-Gatherer form of lifestyle. Point is Hindu beliefs evolved, one can read the arguments of Krishna on Indra worship in Govardhan episode. Krishna stops an Indra yajna that involved cattle slaughter. Also many stories in Harivamsha, Bhagvatam about cow reverence. Or even the Brahman Dhammika sutta of Buddha which explains why the ancient Sages of India protected the Cow and treated it like a family.

    https://suttacentral.net/en/snp2.7

    Any way like I said, there is more to this beef debate than just freedom-to-eat-whatever-i-want crap or "hindus ate beef once" argument that Islamists use. The Muslims were very cognizant of cow's sacredness to Hindus during that era when they were slaughtering and desecrating temples and gurdwaras with it, its irrelevant whether they were eating it themselves 3000 years ago. What else does a "Beef party" achieve but rubbing it into the faces of Hindus ? This desire for humiliating Hindus is central to Islamist demands, just watch Owaisi speeches. When we discuss beef, this fact needs to be kept in mind. Note the areas in India that are more touchy around cow slaughter and beef, its places in N.India that were brutalized by Muslims the most. Watch this video from Tarek Fatah, he explains it in simple terms :-

    https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/682282864122052608/pu/vid/318x180/tyjo0DetA6JHHn12.mp4
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
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  7. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    @asingh10 - I understand. thus my post about the Jain muni. though am open to either of the scenarios - truth to what's promulgated as quoted in the scriptures, or the very real chance of incorrect translations. anything. :p
     
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  8. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think the more we get them to talk, the more they tie themselves into knots. Coming out of the taqiya/deception mode and getting real about their agenda. Will wake up more Hindus than anything else. I welcome it.
     
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  9. Agnostic_Indian

    Agnostic_Indian Regular Member

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    That's all I was saying, hindus used to eat beef, then they changed it for changing needs.and like you said, it doesn't matter whether they eate it in the past or not, at present in secular india people should be free slaughter cows, not in public but in licenced slaughter houses. By supporting it i am not suppotting a illegitimate thing, tomorrow if you as a hindu ask what's right and rational, I will support that too. For example, common civil code, burqa ban/face cover ban , control on religious conversions, govt giving up control of temples etc. If I was a islamist I wouldn't be supporting common civil code and all those things i mentioned. But you cannont acknowledge that i am not a islamist becuse then you can't target me.

    Btw Some thing need to be wrong just becuse its seen in islamic website.



    I have defended my positing rationaly where ever i posted anything. I never denied bad sides of Christianity or islam, i accept resonable points and criticism about those religions as well, i my self have pointed out those things, but what you guys have it here is unresonable criticism and hate mongering. i have talked about people here, in this forum attributing " false tags ' to me on various occations depending up on what subject i was debating. If i was defending a unresonable allegation or remark against christians then i am called as a christian, same goes for every thing else. I was also called a hindu banya etc on other forums when i was defending hinduism or secularism etc. Here in this forum almost all of you belong to right wing hindu ideology, so naturally my posts are going to be against your opinions, if you were neutral and secular people then i would have agreed with your posts( but then i might not have bothered to post since it will be boring to agree on most things), if you were a pro islamic orthodox group I would have opposed your opinions and then you would have call me a hindu or christain or communist.
     
  10. Agnostic_Indian

    Agnostic_Indian Regular Member

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    Really? Clutching on straws :D
     
  11. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sure, I'm all for revoking the beef ban. Let people have the freedom to eat what they want but let us also have full freedom of speech and expose the Islamist motivation and history behind cow slaughter in India, make it public. Let us also freely talk about history of Islam and Islamic invasion of India. Let's not ban any books or censor movies because it 'offends' a community. Let us offer full protection to Taslima Nasreen's and Salman Rushdiees.

    You were opposed to criticism of Islam and implementing full FOS in India, just remember that everyone time you play this FOS/FOE card. It'll back fire on you.



    Why does a guy who keeps harping about logic/rationalism etc have to rely on a propoganda Islamic sites on Hinduism ? Islam-Hindu initiative site is specifically aimed at proselytizing Hindus.


    Sure we know how neutral you are to go around giving others certificates of secularism and neutrality and progressivism and what not.
     
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  12. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Says the guy who's a champion at using false equivalences to balance the narrative.

    Don't give yourself too much credit, you are too easy for me to clutch straws :D
     
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  13. Agnostic_Indian

    Agnostic_Indian Regular Member

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    I am all for people debating/publishing books about islamic invasions, criticising koran and prophets etc but with proper sources and in proper accadamic language, not in mad indian, satay type hate mongering language and style. I often read rationlaist books, they are critical about every religion including hinduism but many of those books are written in a bad taste and bad language..so while i agree with the substance in them, i could not digest the bad mouthing. I belive i have the right to not to belive in allah, jesus, vishnu etc, i also have the right to criticise them or the scriptures but I do not have the right to use abusive language against sombody elses god or prophet.


    I opposed full freedom of expression not be used of any islamic ajenda, you should know that not only islamists but every community can be targetted with uncontrolled FOE. there will be hate speeches, abusive languages etc. Remember uncontrolled FOE will give MF Hussain like guys to paint hindu godess in nude and vulgar manner..you don't want that to happen do you ? I certainly don't want that to happen.


    I just posted what came up on google search, a site being islamic doesn't automatically make things said there to be wrong.

    I am not issuing any certificate, your postisions are self evident from your posts.
     
  14. Agnostic_Indian

    Agnostic_Indian Regular Member

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    I can see that.......................
     
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  15. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Guy goes on and on about secularism/progressive/rationality but :-

    1. Repeatedly uses false equivalences and sophistry to make absurd claims like Hindu terror = Islamic terror. You'll never catch this guy speaking on Malda or the recent story in his own home state where a man's studio was burnt down for criticizing Islamic practices :-
    http://www.thenewsminute.com/articl...ld-studio-burnt-down-criticising-purdah-37201

    But ask him about Dadri and he will give you entire essay's on the subject.

    2. In this free speech thread, one can see how he keeps arguing against absolute FOS :-

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...jp-watches-silently.74585/page-4#post-1114219

    This is after he supports PK movie and cow slaughter despite both being offensive to Hindus. Why this selectiveness about FOS comes into question when Islam is on receiving end ?

    In the same thread he gets into an argument with mad_indian over islam, repeatedly told mad_indian that he was spreading "false things about islam ",says terrorists are misinterpreting quran, asks mods to take action against mad_indian for criticizing islam. :-

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...inions-demographics.74505/page-2#post-1112310

    Such keen interest to defend Islam by a self proclaimed "agnostic". You'll be hardpressed to see him defending Hindus/Hinduism anywhere. Infact, his standard "logical/illogical" trope against religion is exclusively for Hinduism only.

    3. Uses islamist propoganda sites that have obvious ulterior agendas against Hindus. "Islam-Hinduism initiative" and "Sunni tigers" talking about Beef in Hinduism. He could not come up with a Hindu source or even an atheist/agnostic source.


    4. You can see more of his tom foolery in the paris terror thread, where he was in doubt about paris being a religiously motivated attack :-

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/paris-terror-attack-13-11.73898/page-9#post-1101812

    Standard "terror has no religion" trope.


    He think people on this forum are foolish enough to think that these are isolated incidences and people can't add up things or smell the bias in his posting patterns. There are many more e.g. but I'll leave it for people to judge.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  16. Agnostic_Indian

    Agnostic_Indian Regular Member

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    I never said hindu terroirm = islamic terror, don't try to create a smoke screen, i very well know that and acknowledged the fact that hindu terrorism is very rare where as islamic trrrorism is very big. If i spoke about dadri here then it's becuse of the type of audience here, that's tue same reason I didn't post on malda thread..its obvious that you all condemn the incident, i agree and share your sentiments.we all agree on that. There used to be a poster from pakistan called Neo, i have had many dabtes with him on kashmir issue and other things on another forum, but here i never bothered to debate him, becuse here there is already a big pool of posters defending indian position against him.

    Yes i opposed uncontrolled freedom of expression. I dont see pk to be offensice, sensor bord has given the green signal too. I didnt find kamal hassan's viswaroopam too to be okey although islamic groups protested against it, what do you say about that ? Where is selected fos ?
    However i mentioned somthing really offensive, which is painting hindu godess in nude and vulgar mannner, that was offensive IMO.


    Cow is not holy for non hindus and non belivers and in a secular state others right to eat cannont be restricted based on someone elses beliefs.others have no obligation to follow hindu scriptures. And i thought you agreed with me on that if i support Salman Rushdiees and Taslima nasreens books and support criticising islam and koran etc. And i agreed with you on all those things ? Did i disappointed you by agreeing to thise things ?

    Lastly I dint complain against criticism against islam, mad indian was calling muhmmad a pedophile, so only i opposed it. There itself i mentioned my stand that abusing with illintention is not criticism.



    FOr the xxxth time, there is plenty of other sources and a sight being islamic doesn't automatically make things posted there to be wrong. So don't try to clutch on to straws.

    And here is my perfectly rational explenation for that.
    I said most probably it's a islamic terrorism. If my position was " ferror has no religion " then i would not have named the terrrorism as islamic terrorism, would i ?
    "I said most probably.... in this case it is 99 %..If french govt confirmed it then its 100%. "
    I had missed the post which said some terrorist grope claimed the responsibility, thats why my post said " most probably ". but given the hostility you have i don't expect you to belive that i missed that part, lets say I saw that comment and yet said most probably. Even then most probably is enough and apt term to use there. the terrorist claimed responsibility then it's 99 % sure that it's an islamic terrorism. Why leve the 1% chance ? Terrorists often take credit for ops that have not done, so only govt confirmation can make it 100% sure.
     
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  17. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    I don't mind MF Hussain paintings either. Charvaka used some really ugly language for ashwamedha and hindu rituals in his polemics yet it was a part of Madhavacharaya's Sarva Darshan Sangraha, and it was accorded same respect as other Hindu sects. Buddha, Jaina, Sikh, Shaiva, Vaishnava etc all have written negatively about each other. This kind of openness is a part of Indian traditions.

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...inions-demographics.74505/page-2#post-1112323

    Hindus have nothing to fear w.r.t absolute FOS, Khajuraho is out there for everyone to see. Ambedkars writings are out there for all to read. It is the Islamists who have a compulsive desire to hide their history, obfuscate facts, want to ban books, movies and silence people who speak about them. Many Christian and Islamists are so rabid that they want creationism to be taught in schools over evolution.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-parents-import-creationism-into-schools.html

    ^^ This is what happens when you follow an absolutist religion that is forever scared of that one thing which may prove them wrong, so they will go to any length to stop people from speaking out. If evolution is true (IT IS), then the story about Adam & Eve is false - this would lead to the entire theological core of Abrahamisms collapsing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
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  18. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian p = np :) Senior Member

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    A ocean is always better than small ponds.
     
  19. VOCvangoens

    VOCvangoens New Member

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    Are there examples in the diverse traditions of Hinduism of progressive attitudes towards women? I ask this question in response to widely-held notions in Western intellectual circles that Western attitudes are inherently superior to those of so-called "Third World", Medievalist societies and that any liberalism demonstrated in such societies is due solely to Western Influence.
     
  20. genius

    genius Regular Member

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    Is there anything like Hinduism? Or is it just a mishmash of various sects and beliefs? It explains why Hindus can't unite. There are vaishnavas, shaivas, animists, etc. But we artificially unite all of them into one religion called Hinduism.
     

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