PLAAF Offensive Combat readiness against India

sandeepdg

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all talks about air force partial or no talk about army

and yes no talk at all about navy what d u think would china would send its nvy to attack india particularly east india ie Kolkata and south india to attack vital militray installation. what d u people think is it possible after all china likes to surprise india

and yes its look like china had made all security arrangements for its defence in eastern sector .

while we were engaged with pakistan for last 60 its looks like china has made good of this 60 years to fortify its terrority. we were to stupid or where sleeping

china just waiting for indian to make a mistake then pounce like a tiger on its pray
That's because the aerial route of attack is most fastest and convenient mode to make a surprise strike. The PLA cannot negotiate the hostile terrain on its side without help form the PLAAF. The PLA navy will be slowest mode to make a surprise attack, hence that's not viable.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Tshering22

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2 new squadrons will be deployed in tezpur and chabua.
What baffles me is the map that shows PLAAF airbases and our eastern air bases. I am wondering why is it that we don't have ready IAF bases in Arunachal Pradesh? Especially when Dragon claims it so fiercely as their personal property. Arunachal is a reasonably big state and can have bases in its inner regions. A squadron of MKIs, one of Tejas's and a third of whatever MRCA we get should be present there. 54-60 fighter jets nearest to the border is absolutely essential. Arunachal is a considerable bet because it is a state... not a buffer zone where we can wait for enemies to come in and let them bleed throughout.

Having 2 forward bases in Arunchal minimum is extremely crucial if we have to get multirole fighters into action ASAP. In a likely event of conflict, PLAAF knows this and hence will possibly deploy its SAM batteries. We must think of this before they do. Akash serves the BEST purpose for mass blanketing of NE with SAM radars and batteries to let the enemy jets face a rain of SAMs and destroy their ability to land troops, send strike jets or bombers.

AKASH is the most important element needed right now in Arunachal apart from 2-3 air bases active because it is:

- Cheap to produce
- Indigenous and can be mass produced easily
- Modified for a longer range
- Will not have to waste money buying foreign maal.
- Simple yet sophisticated and state-of-art.

Akash's range is 30 KM which can easily be doubled with some slight modifications by DRDO if necessary (they don't do it for obvious babu reasons but that's off topic). 30 Km is a fine enough range to neutralize PLAAF bombers and fighters. If 6-8 batteries of SAMs are blanketed in Arunachal and here in Sikkim, the PLAAF threat becomes less, forcing PLA special forces to attempt to enter our ground and seize control of SAM control units to allow a potential air strike.

This is where the second most important defensive weapon is needed: Artillery. MBRLs in short. Pinaka meets the perfect requirement, especially since IA is soon to get the 120KM modified Pinaka version. This in conjunction to above is extremely important. Smerch will be useful but its use would be comparatively limited. With a GPS-guidance upgrade of Pinaka's both 40 KM and 120 KM versions as well as intentions to integrate their guidance via UAVs would further add teeth to Army's defensive capabilities of destroying convoys of PLA across the borders traveling on their recently made roads. This has to be in significantly large quantities to maximize the damage to the enemy (since the enemy is a quantity obsessed one as well, and we cannot integrate nuclear warheads to MBRLs to use the "Quality excuse" LOL).

The presence of artillery and its capability to destroy large columns of PLA vehicles entering the region will play a vital role in not just destroying enemy's manpower across the LAC but also be used to destroy roads and other transport infrastructure to slow down backup forces or even stop them.

Due to Arunachal's hostile terrain and lack of parallel infrastructure as the PLA have for roads and railways on the other side, the troops that enter Arunachal will be virtually cut off, making them an easy prey to our military. What would further make this too-good-to-be-true scene real is our ability to deny PLAAF any entry into our airspace using heavy SAM firepower.

By the time this much is done, it is very likely that invasion would stop and people would come to negotiations and discussions with UN grumbling about "peace and calm between neighbours" and other such bullshit.
 

Tshering22

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all talks about air force partial or no talk about army

and yes no talk at all about navy what d u think would china would send its nvy to attack india particularly east india ie Kolkata and south india to attack vital militray installation. what d u people think is it possible after all china likes to surprise india

and yes its look like china had made all security arrangements for its defence in eastern sector .

while we were engaged with pakistan for last 60 its looks like china has made good of this 60 years to fortify its terrority. we were to stupid or where sleeping

china just waiting for indian to make a mistake then pounce like a tiger on its pray
Anoop, do you seriously think that PLAN can do any damage to us in BoB or IOR? Its choke-point is Malacca straits where our Navy is strong. Mind you, the Navy is pretty particular about its operations and PLAN attempting to attack eastern India via sea would simply be toasted. PLAN's strength is paramount as long as it stays in South and East China Seas. Also just to remind you, Andaman hosts a tri-service base and has some of the finest fighters stationed there. That means any enemy ships that manage to break through our ship defenses (which is almost impossible for any navy), would be in for a rain of fire from sky. Though Viraat (for now immediate need) would remain in Western sector only to carefully check for any PN or "non-state actors" planning to take an adventure, most of the IN ships whether destroyers, frigates, corvettes or submarines would be joining eastern command.

This is the reason why a Naval engagement with PLAN is impractical.

Army is too obvious as I have made my point in just previous post, where Army and IAF have to work in conjunction. A carefully planned network of SAMs blanketing entire east not just Sikkim and Arunachal but Uttarakhand, Himachal and Ladakh would be crucial and Kashmir would be a sensitive zone that PLA and PLAAF would want to manipulate. Arunachal and Sikkim are virtually fortresses now and hence PLAAF and PLA's attention would be Himachal, Uttarakhand and our sensitive Kashmir. They already faced almost no resistance when they occupied east Ladakh and hence it is this time possibly going to be a theater.

PLA's moving in of CJ-10s in Aksai Chin would be a risk to our capital which would mean that we will need heavy artillery to destroy rail and road-mobile missile silos on the other side, while letting the IA soldiers do the work. SAMs would have to be in coordination with IAF's fighters to deny any access to PLAAF bombers and fighters. Remember that in case the war escalates to aerial level, PLAAF will go gung ho with quantity and send hundreds of its older MiG-variants camouflaging the superior J-11s, Su-27s, Su-30MKKs and J-10s. This means we need a helluva lot of SAMs available to cause serious damage.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Plaaf

A squadron of MKIs, one of Tejas's and a third of whatever MRCA we get should be present there. 54-60 fighter jets nearest to the border is absolutely essential. Arunachal is a considerable bet because it is a state... not a buffer zone where we can wait for enemies to come in and let them bleed throughout.

Its not a good Idea to put them that close to LAC, from the nearest base of PLAAF from Tibet its a 20mins or less, this makes SAM ambush difficult, Also it risks the precious fighter we have on the ground, Still their are 5-7 small and medium airstrip exist for helo and air-defense operations..





Their are +24 airstrips in northeast some of them are hardcore IAF fighter bases.





Akash serves the BEST purpose for mass blanketing of NE with SAM radars and batteries to let the enemy jets face a rain of SAMs and destroy their ability to land troops, send strike jets or bombers.
Forget Akash..
Akash is good only on flat terrain not over mountains..


As u can see the radar point the SAM towards the target, If that radar is switch off or damaged the missile is blind Or any thing comes between the radar and the target the missile is blind!


See this diagram of akash here, u will notice the RPF receiver but no seeker or any kind of radar of the missile itself..





Solution:

IA SA-6


The most important thing in SA-6 is the missiles itself..
The missile have its own radar which feed first from main radar on ground abt target location and specification and lock on itself on to it, Even if radar is switch off the missile tracked enemy fighter till the end..


SA-6 missle

Missile seeker or the missiles inbuilt radar..
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2K12-Kvadrat.html


Mrkonjić Grad incident:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrkonjić_Grad_incident



This is where the second most important defensive weapon is needed: Artillery. MBRLs in short. Pinaka meets the perfect requirement, especially since IA is soon to get the 120KM modified Pinaka version. This in conjunction to above is extremely important. Smerch will be useful but its use would be comparatively limited. With a GPS-guidance upgrade of Pinaka's both 40 KM and 120 KM versions as well as intentions to integrate their guidance via UAVs would further add teeth to Army's defensive capabilities of destroying convoys of PLA across the borders traveling on their recently made roads. This has to be in significantly large quantities to maximize the damage to the enemy (since the enemy is a quantity obsessed one as well, and we cannot integrate nuclear warheads to MBRLs to use the "Quality excuse" LOL).
Your question is already answered here:
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?t=16694&page=1
 
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civfanatic

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Kunal do you know how many SA-6 batteries we have in total?
 
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Kunal the SA-6's we have are the very early versions do we have the Gainful version which you have described???
 

Kunal Biswas

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Kunal the SA-6's we have are the very early versions do we have the Gainful version which you have described???
We are using ZRK SD Kub Kvadrat an export model of KlubM, Gainful is NATO reporting name for Klubs..
IA purchased not long ago may be during 1995-97, So i can assume the seeker and missiles are new as m4 version..

As per a report in indian magazine "Strategic Affairs " (No. 0011/ Issue: December 16) noted: "Poland has won an order worth $200 m from India to upgrade 100 Kvadrat (SA6) and 50 OSA-AKM (SA8) mobile surface to air missiles. The contract made public in August, is to be completed by 2002. The upgrades include integration of new radars, communications and control systems, improvements to the launch vehicle including new power packs. The Kvadrat upgrade includes new electronics for better electronic counter measures, passive infra-red search and track sensors." The Indian Army has decided to upgrade it's Kvadrat air defence systems, due to inordinate delays in the Akash missile program which was supposed to replace the Kvadrat system. The $200 million upgrade program for 100 Kvadrat (and 50 OSA-AKM) systems is being done by Warsaw-based Centrex Trading Limited, Poland's state-owned agency for defence exports, and was expected to be completed by 2002-end. The upgrade package includes replacement of both air defence systems' radars, signaling equipment and radio receivers. The package also includes new digital fire-control and This modernized system will include an further improved 1S91M2-P1 fire control radar and 9Sh33M optical tracking system fitted with a KT-1 CCD TV camera with continuous zoom, The package also includes new digital fire-control . A thermal (infra-red - IR) camera operating in the 8 - 12 µm band is also available, this has a range of 40 - 70 km in favorable working conditions. new power-pack systems.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2K12-Kvadrat.html
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes...2K12-Kub-Polish-Upgrade-Programme-Poland.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-6
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Equipment/Artillery/362-Kvadrat.html
http://www.museumstuff.com/learn/topics/Kub_missile_system


Kunal do you know how many SA-6 batteries we have in total?
Exactly we don't know, but from internet source we know IA have 100 units with 400 launchers..
 

shuvo@y2k10

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i don't know whether iaf already has ks-172 awacs killer but as india has revived the project by investing in it in 2004 it will surely find its place on the su-30mki soon.it make its appearence in 2005 and 2007 maks air shows so it will not be long before it finds its place in su-30mki.as a stopgap measure india can make outright purchase of vmpyel r-37 which is a modified version of r-33 and has a similar anti awacs capability.
 

vikramrana_1812

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Chinese army puts up post near border


AGARTALA: The new Sino-Indian partnership, premier Wen Jiabao said in India during his recent visit, is one of cooperation, not rivalry and competition. On the ground, though, Beijing's military build-up near India's borders continues.

China's mighty People's Liberation Army (PLA) is building a four-storeyed military facility at a Myanmar border town which is close to the Northeast, the Myanmarese media said on Monday.

The construction of the base, it added, has been on at breakneck speed since August and it won't be too long before it's completed. In its report, Burma News International quoted the Kachin News Group as saying that the facility will house ''several military officers on the border town of Menghai in China's southwest Yunnan province''.

Once completed, it will act as a command post for at least one PLA battalion. The report cited eyewitnesses and former Communist Party of Burma officials as its sources.

The area where the military facility is being built is opposite Mongkoe town in Myanmar's northern Shan State and close to the Tibet-Myanmar-Arunachal trijunction. The closest Indian point is Vahai on the eastern tip of Mizoram.

The report quoted Slg Bum Htoi, a military analyst based in Mongkoe, as saying that it was ''unusual for soldiers of PLA to be stationed near the troubled Burma border''. "I think Chinese troops are being stationed there to monitor foreign troops, especially US soldiers, should they enter Myanmar," he added.
 

JBH22

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while all the above thing mentioned are important but in Mountain warfare imo this will boil down to infantry combat therefore we need to upgrade infantry with better BP jacket,Helmets,NVG and finally upgrade their firepower.

So this makes me wonder what would be the ideal infantry squad i mean with weapons that's within the budget.
 

Kunal Biswas

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while all the above thing mentioned are important but in Mountain warfare imo this will boil down to infantry combat therefore we need to upgrade infantry with better BP jacket,Helmets,NVG and finally upgrade their firepower.

So this makes me wonder what would be the ideal infantry squad i mean with weapons that's within the budget.
Chinese army puts up post near border


AGARTALA: The new Sino-Indian partnership, premier Wen Jiabao said in India during his recent visit, is one of cooperation, not rivalry and competition. On the ground, though, Beijing's military build-up near India's borders continues.

China's mighty People's Liberation Army (PLA) is building a four-storeyed military facility at a Myanmar border town which is close to the Northeast, the Myanmarese media said on Monday.

The construction of the base, it added, has been on at breakneck speed since August and it won't be too long before it's completed. In its report, Burma News International quoted the Kachin News Group as saying that the facility will house ''several military officers on the border town of Menghai in China's southwest Yunnan province''.

Once completed, it will act as a command post for at least one PLA battalion. The report cited eyewitnesses and former Communist Party of Burma officials as its sources.

The area where the military facility is being built is opposite Mongkoe town in Myanmar's northern Shan State and close to the Tibet-Myanmar-Arunachal trijunction. The closest Indian point is Vahai on the eastern tip of Mizoram.

The report quoted Slg Bum Htoi, a military analyst based in Mongkoe, as saying that it was ''unusual for soldiers of PLA to be stationed near the troubled Burma border''. "I think Chinese troops are being stationed there to monitor foreign troops, especially US soldiers, should they enter Myanmar," he added.

People Post PLA movement over LAC here and regarding question abt ground forces:
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?t=16694&page=1
 
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Kunal Biswas

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IAF to replace old fleet with Sukhoi, AN 32 in North East

The Indian Air Force has started the process of replacing its old fleet of craft in the Eastern and North Eastern Region with Sukhoi and Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRC) in a phased manner, while, the airfields and the advanced landing facilities are also being upgraded.

Talking to The Assam Tribune, Air Marshal (Retd) PK Borbora, who retired as the Vice Chief of Air Staff of the Indian Air Force on December 31, said that there was a long-felt need for augmenting the airfields and the advanced landing facilities in the East and North East part of the country and the process has already started. He said that the Tezpur airfield has already been upgraded with the required infrastructure for maintenance and regular operation of Sukhoi craft and the process of upgrading Chabua airfield for the same would be completed within this year.

Air Marshal Borbora said that the Government of India has started the process of renovating and upgrading not only the airfields and advanced landing facilities but also the helipads and the Air Force, which has the expertise of doing the same, is carrying out the job not only in Assam and Arunachal Pradesh but also in West Bengal. This has been done not because India is apprehensive of any threat from China but the necessity of doing the same was felt for a long time. He revealed that apart from Tezpur and Chabua, the airfields and advanced landing facilities at Jorhat, Zero, Tawang, Pashighat, Tezu, Machuka, Hasimara, Bagdogra etc., are also being renovated and upgraded.

The Air Force will complete the process of upgrading the advanced landing facility at Vijoynagar in Arunachal Pradesh by February, which is the eastern most advanced landing facility of the country. After completion of the renovation of the advanced landing facilities, the AN 32 carrier aircraft would be able to land in those places, which would help the forces immensely in transportation of men and material including supplies, while, it would also be beneficial for the civilian population in the remote parts of the country. For example, Vijoynagar is completely cut off from rest of the country and there is virtually no road for at least 140 kilometres. The Air Force is the lifeline for that area. Construction and renovation of the helipads will also give a major boost to tourism in Arunachal Pradesh, while, the Government of Arunachal Pradesh has been pressing the Central Government for construction of a civilian airport near Itanagar.

Replying to a question on the possibility of any air strike by China, Borbora admitted that as far as the number of aircraft is concerned, China has advantage over India but "we are not apprehensive of any strike from the neighbouring country as we are equally powerful or may be more at least in the Eastern and North eastern part of India."

http://idrw.org/?p=2111




Feeling Gud!

What next is mass no of MRCA filling these bases..
 

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China, not Pakistan, will be the focus of the Indian Army's future strategy, reports R S Chauhan.

To counter China's steadily increasing military might, the ministry of defence is likely to shift the focus of the Indian Army's next Long-Term Integrated Perspective Plan, LTIPP.

From its current Pakistan-centric approach, the MoD may shift the plan's emphasis to meet the potential challenge from India's neighbour on the eastern border.

The Indian Army's next LTIPP is for the period between 2012 and 2027.

By 2020, the army seeks to have a full-fledged Mountain Strike Corps in place. According to sources in the MoD, the army has recommended that infrastructure in India's border areas, along the over 4000 km boundary with China, be upgraded swiftly to enable it to deploy more troops and operate effectively in the difficult terrain.

The army wants the government to build roads that can sustain the harsh weather in these terrain right up to the Indo-China border and connect important formation headquarters in the high-altitude areas of Ladakh, Arunachal Pradesh, Uttaranchal and Himachal Pradesh.

The army also wants to acquire integrated field shelters for high-altitude areas to enhance the quality of living accommodations for its personnel even in the remotest locations.

In some ways, the implementation of the LTIPP is already underway. The army will complete the formation of two mountain divisions in the north-east by the middle of 2011. Once completed, these divisions will add muscle to the Indian Army's defence plans on its eastern border.

The addition of these two divisions has enabled the Eastern Command to redraw its orbat (order of battle).

Now the Tezpur-based 4 Corps will look after the Kameng sector in western Arunachal Pradesh with the deployment of three Mountain Divisions.

The Army Corps based in Rangapahar will now be in charge of eastern Arunachal Pradesh and will have three Mountain Divisions operating under it.

At least two more divisions to be raised in the next five years will then enable the army to have a dedicated Mountain Strike Corps to be either placed in the sensitive terrains of north-east or Ladakh.

The army also wants the Border Roads Organisation to speed up its road-building capabilities in tough terrain.

Over 75 tactically and strategically important roads are currently under construction in areas bordering China. The army wants these roads to be operational as quickly as possible to increase its ability to deploy and maintain adequate troop strength on the border.

Apart from these basic requirements, the army has projected some China-specific steps in its next LTIPP.

  • Augment and optimise force application capability.
  • Address logistic voids and enhance logistic capability.
  • Enhance mobilisation capability.
  • Ensure quick reaction capability in aviation.
  • Improve and develop wide area network and satellite communication network.
The change in the Indian Army's priorities comes in the wake of a recent study conducted by a team of generals which looked at ways to 'transform' the force from a large, standing, lumbering army to a more lethal, nimble and technologically savvy entity capable of meeting future challenges.
http://www.rediff.com/news/special/special-how-india-plans-to-counter-china/20110103.htm
 
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debasree

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the situation is frightening! my question is are we readdy to tackle this huge force?or just 1962 we r day dreaming and our pollitical & millitarry just give us false assurance that we r safe & china cannot repeat 1962 fiasco again.
 

Kunal Biswas

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the situation is frightening! my question is are we readdy to tackle this huge force?or just 1962 we r day dreaming and our pollitical & millitarry just give us false assurance that we r safe & china cannot repeat 1962 fiasco again.
Go through the thread again, Also the ones in sticky, you will have your answer..
 

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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...ow/7648434.cms
China has five airbases, extensive rail-road networks in Tibet: Antony

NEW DELHI: Apart from nuclear missile bases in Qinghai province which clearly target India, China has built five fully-operational airbases, an extensive rail network and over 58,000 km of roads in Tibetan Autonomous Region (TAR).

People's Liberation Army is also rapidly upgrading several other airstrips in TAR as well as south China, to add to the five airbases from where Chinese Sukhoi-27UBK and Sukhoi-30MKK fighters have practised operations in recent times.

Moreover, with extensive road-rail links in TAR, PLA can amass upwards of two divisions (30,000 soldiers) at their "launch pads'' along the border in just 20 days now compared to the over 90 days it took earlier.

All this is not strikingly new but, soon after Beijing hiked its annual military budget to $91.5 billion, mounting concern over China's massive build-up of military infrastructure was reflected in Lok Sabha on Monday.

Cutting across party lines, 19 MPs came together to quiz defence minister A K Antony on whether the UPA government was taking "cognizance'' of the "increased Chinese military activities'' along the 4,057-km LAC.

Antony, in a written reply, said "necessary steps'' were being taken in consonance with India's national security concerns. "Military capacity enhancement and modernisation of armed forces is a dynamic process, which takes into account the cumulative challenges envisaged by the nation,'' he said.

"The total road network in TAR is assessed at 58,000 km in 2010. Extension of Qinghai Tibet Railway to Xigaze is in progress. Another railway line from Kashgar to Hotan in Xinjiang Uighur Autonmous Region is under construction,'' he said, adding the five TAR airfields were Gongar, Pangta, Linchi, Hoping and Gar Gunsa.

India is now, albeit belatedly, trying to strategically counter China. Just last week, for instance, saw two new Sukhoi-30MKIs touch down at Chabua airbase in Assam, the second airbase in North-East after Tezpur to house the multi-role fighters. Both airbases will have two Sukhoi squadrons (each has 16 to 18 jets) each.

The Army, on its part, has raised two new mountain infantry divisions, with 1,260 officers and 35,011 soldiers. While the 56 Division has its HQ in Zakama (Nagaland) under the Dimapur-based 3 Corps, the 71 Division at Missamari (Assam) falls in the operational command of the Tezpur-based 4 Corps.

IAF is also upgrading eastern sector ALGs (advanced landing grounds) like Pasighat, Mechuka, Walong, Tuting, Ziro and Vijaynagar as well as several helipads in Arunachal. This comes after the reactivation of western sector ALGs like Daulat Beg Oldi, Fukche and Nyama in eastern Ladakh.
 

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