Pakistan enters contract with Turkey to manufacture Attack Helicopters T-129

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Zarvan, May 14, 2017.

  1. Zarvan

    Zarvan Regular Member

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    Pakistan enters contract with Turkey to manufacture war copters



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    Pakistan has entered an agreement with Turkey to manufacture Ada class corvettes and T-129 helicopters.

    The agreement was signed by Minister for Defence, Rana Tanvir and his Turkish counterpart.

    The corvettes clock 54 kilometres per hour and support the most advanced GPS system and sensors. They also are equipped to launch anti-surface missile, anti-aircraft missile and torpedoes.

    Assembly line of T-129 is to be established at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra.
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    http://nation.com.pk/national/12-Ma...ntract-with-turkey-to-manufacture-war-copters
     
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  3. lcafanboy

    lcafanboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Looks crude compared to LCH and RUDRA.

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    Now that's what is called combat Helicopter.
     
  4. aditya10r

    aditya10r Mera Bharat mahan Senior Member

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    How many t-129 is Pak army planning??

    I mean they already have 2 chinese attack helo+1 american attack helo+1 russian attack helo and now this....

    Spare part nightmare
     
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  5. lcafanboy

    lcafanboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    @Zarvan @PSYOP Read this to know more about LCH how it is even better that Apaches in Mountain warfare.

    Why the Apache is a brute and LCH is elegant
    Following up on my previous article about the LCH versus its Chinese opponent (the very sluggish Z-10), the obvious question comes to mind: “How does the LCH compare with what AH-64D Apache that Boeing is offering to India?” Once again, we turn to analysis. The Apache is in the same weight class as the Z-10 and is also two times heavier than the LCH when carrying the same payload in weapons, fuel and crew. The AH-64D is 5,165 kg and the LCH even in its current overweight mode is about 2,800-3,000 kg. But where the Z-10 lost out to an acute lack of power, the Apache reigns supreme. Powered by engines that produce each produce one and half times the LCH’s net power, (an incredible ~2,980 KW for the AH-64D versus ~1,700 KW for the LCH), the Apache makes up for the extra weight by sheer brute power. This allows the Apache to get close to the LCH at both sea-level and high-altitude conditions.

    But just how close does it get?
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    (L to R): The Indian HAL LCH and the Boeing AH-64D Apache

    To answer that question, I present here a comparison study similar to that done previously for the Z-10. We will take the LCH and the Apache and put an identical payload of 1,000 kg on them. Note that we have increased the payload here from 500 kg to 1000 kg for this analysis as opposed to that done for the Z-10. The reasoning will simple: both the LCH and the Apache can haul 500 kg through the high Himalayas. However, to get an idea of different performances, we are getting more realistic and putting a higher payload. In reality, with about 200 kg of crew and around 300 kg of fuel, the effective payload of weapons is only 500 kg. We will run both helicopters through a simulation model where we subject them to altitude variations and see how it affects their rate-of-climb capabilities while in hover, out of Ground Effect conditions. The rate-of-climb (ROC, measured here in meters/second) is a true measure of the maneuvering capability of an attack helicopter. Typically, a ROC of 0.5 m/sec is used to evaluate service ceiling conditions. A ROC of 2.5 m/sec is typically the bare minimum for combat conditions. For a helicopter in high mountains to be truly maneuverable, it may need somewhere in the range of 2.5 to 8 m/sec vertical ROC equivalent in power capacity. Of course, beyond a certain altitude, the helicopter may not be able to fly with the 500 kg payload, let alone providing additional power for high ROC. So we will also see where those limits are for the LCH and the Z-10.

    The focus of this analysis is on a preliminary aerodynamic and propulsive standpoint. The analysis is done using simulation tools that integrate payload capacities and typical rate-of-climb requirements with a preliminary rotary aerodynamics model and a simple propulsion module. When coupled with an atmospheric simulator for the Himalayas, the performance of each helicopter type can be predicted and compared. Furthermore, the models allow for the performance analysis in Ground Effect conditions. The Ground Effect conditions are encountered when the helicopters are hovering very close to the ground and serves to work as a performance multiplier with regard to power needed in lifting a certain payload.

    The models do not compensate for transmission limitations for the power, which means that the analysis is idealized wherein power generated is power available. This is, of course, not encountered in practice, but works well for high-altitude conditions where power available is almost always less than the transmission limits. At lower altitudes, the performance of the various designs must be assumed to be ideal, rather than restricted from transmission and structural limitations. For example, the maximum rate-of-climb (ROC) values obtained from this simulator for sea-level (SL) conditions will typically be higher than what is allowed by other limitations. However, such removal of limitations is required in order to compare the various contenders at the same performance benchmarks.

    Data for this analysis is obtained from the manufacturers via open-sources. No proprietary information is shared here. Unless where cited, the analysis results are to be considered proprietary of the author. See remarks for details.
    LCH versus the Apache:
    The hover performance is evaluated at altitudes varying from 0 ft (SL) to 25,000 ft. Altitudes in the Himalayan Mountains regularly require flights above 10,000 ft and often up to 22,000 ft. The data is presented for the LCH and the Apache for payload and available maximum ROC capability versus altitude. A threshold ROC line is shown for the reference 8 m/sec combat ROC.

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    Notice how the sea-level performance of the LCH and the Apache are similar. The Apache, with a 1,000 kg payload is able to generate a maximum vertical ROC capability of 12.77 m/sec. By comparison, at sea-level, the LCH is able to carry the 1,000 kg and is able to provide a power excess for a theoretical max ROC of 15.16 m/sec. It is instantly apparent how the Apache is able to use its outstanding source of power to lift its much heavier mass and still come close to the LCH performance. This heavier bulk involves greater armor and protection for the Apache pilots.

    Now consider how the change in altitude affects both helicopters. The Apache, trying to maintain the 1,000 kg payload, begins to tail-off its ROC capability from 12.77 m/sec at sea-level to 0 m/sec ROC at ~18,000 ft. Beyond 18,000 ft altitude, the Apache also cannot carry its 1,000 kg payload and the tail-off in that capacity is visible, although less dramatic than the Z-10 from the previous articles. The Z-10 cannot operate beyond 10,000 ft under any conditions. The Apache, on the other hand, flies and fights up till ~15,000 ft altitude.

    The LCH, on the other hand, once again utilizes its light-weight structure to great effect. It can not only maintain the 1,000 kg payload for another 3,000 ft altitude (i.e. up to ~21,000 ft), the tail-off in the ROC does not drop below 8 m/sec until ~11,000 ft. The tail-off does not drop below the minimum 2.5 m/sec until ~15,000 ft.

    Conclusions:
    The difference between the LCH and Apache at high altitudes is going to be in maneuverability. The LCH will turn out to be more agile and have higher performance in general because it is custom-designed to fight at higher altitudes. The Apache, on the other hand, is a brute-force machine, matching the LCH up to the Himalayas for payload, but losing out in agility. The Apache will be less agile than the LCH but will take more hits and keep flying. Where the LCH will look to evade and survive, the Apache will turn to its armor.

    http://thebetacoefficient.blogspot.in/2015/04/why-apache-is-brute-and-lch-is-elegant.html
     
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  6. Zarvan

    Zarvan Regular Member

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    Your LC
    Your might LCH is better than every attack helicopter on face of the earth and even those who will come in future !!!! :bs::bs::bs:
     
  7. Zarvan

    Zarvan Regular Member

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    Most likely around 120 and 15 Zulus we have on order and we will try to get 15 more making that total of 150. But SSG and other special forces plans to induct MI-35 in large numbers but that will be dedicated to Special Forces Missions.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
  8. aditya10r

    aditya10r Mera Bharat mahan Senior Member

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    Instead of buying so many systems why dont you guys simply buy a proper attack helo(like thisone) and mil mi-35.:yawn::yawn::yawn::yawn::yawn:

    Your air force is doing the same thing(jf-17+f-16 replacement+chinese j-31)
     
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  9. PSYOP

    PSYOP Regular Member

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    LCH had a problem with foldable blades, as well as with installing an automatic system. The requirement of Blade Folding with a width of 3.5 metres was not feasible due to the inherent design characteristics of the ALH hingeless Main Rotor Blade with an Integrated Dynamic System.

    However, LCH has not installed an automatic folding facility. Automatic blade folding was not pursued due to weight penalty of about 100 kgs.
     
  10. PSYOP

    PSYOP Regular Member

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    T129 ATAK is a new generation, tandem two-seat, twin engine helicopter specifically designed for attack and reconnaissance purposes. T129 ATAK, developed from the combat proven AgustaWestland A129CBT, incorporates totally new system philosophy with new engines (LHTEC CTS 800-4A), new avionics, visionics and weapons, modified airframe, uprated drive train and new tail rotor.

    The T129 ATAK is the helicopter selected in 2007 by the Government of Turkey for the Turkish Land Forces; development and production will be assured by the "ATAK Team", a Joint Partnership of Turkish Aerospace Industries, Inc. (TAI) and AgustaWestland. The first TAI-manufactured helicopter was delivered to Turkish Land Forces by the end of April 2014.

    T129 ATAK has been optimized to meet and exceed the "high and hot" performance requirements for harsh geographical and environmental conditions while providing the following key characteristics;

    • Day & night all environment capability; effective, precise weapon systems that provide combat superiority while low visual, aural, radar and IR signatures, high level of crashworthiness and ballistic tolerance provide high battlefield survivability.
    • Excellent situational awareness through good visibility arcs and fully integrated mission and communication systems.
    • Eased crew workloads through superior performance, agility and platform stability and handling qualities.
    • Reduced Preparation Time augmented by off-board Mission Planning System and reduced take-off time.
    • Low operating cost through effective design and on-condition maintenance.
    T129 ATAK could be provided with UMTAS ATGMs, and CIRIT (70 mm. Guided Rockets) designed for Turkish Armed Forces. Further armament options include Hellfire and Spike ATGMs, Stinger A/A missiles. A new FLIR system increases image quality and range performance with real-time image processing and multiple target tracking with high resolution thermal camera, laser rangefinder, designator and spot tracker. The relatively small radar cross section and state of the art systems counter measure systems help to provide high battlefield survivability, low visual, aural, radar and IR signatures.

    Technical Specifications:

    • Powerplant: LHTEC CTS-800 4A, 2 x 1014kW (2 x 1361shp).
    • Max Design Gross Weight: 5000 kg (11,023 lb).
    • Dimensions: Length: 13.64 m Main Rotor Diameter: 11.90 m Overall Height: 3.96 m.
    • Crew: 2, Tandem.
    • Cruise Speed: 269 km/h, 145 kts.
    • Range: 561 km.
    • HIGE: 3993 m.
    • HOGE: 3048 m.
    • Service Ceiling: 6096 m.
    • Endurance: 3 hrs (std tank).
    • Armaments: 2x4 UMTAS ATGM Missile (or Hellfire or Spike), 4x19 70 mm (2.75”) Unguided Rockets, 4x2-4 70 mm (2.75”) Guided CİRİT Rockets, 2x2 ATAM Stinger.
     
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  11. gslv markIII

    gslv markIII Regular Member

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    Which wasn't demanded by the IA/IN anywhere.

    What exactly.
     
  12. gslv markIII

    gslv markIII Regular Member

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    Is this the Official press release ?
     
  13. gslv markIII

    gslv markIII Regular Member

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    You have around 50 & will get 12 more.

    LCH is an excellent platform which is tailor made for high altitude operations.
     
  14. lcafanboy

    lcafanboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    HERE'S ONE MORE SHOCKER COMING FOR YOU and PAKISTAN:

    Weaponised IMRH?

    Published February 9, 2017 SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK

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    HAL is all set to showcase initial design mockup of Indian Multi-Role Helicopter (IMRH) at Aero India 2017. HAL is also aware that Army and Navy which have backed the indigenous project are also looking for a weaponised variant of Multi-Role Helicopter and HAL has agreed to work on developing one after consulting with Army and Navy, said an informed source close to idrw.org. Indian Navy already has decided not to use ‘Dhruv’ advanced light helicopter, manufactured by HAL for Anti-submarine warfare due to size and weight of Dhruv which was found unsuitable to carry out anti-submarine warfare operations but Naval IMRH will come with Anti-submarine warfare operations requirements. IMRH will not be limited to search and rescue and transportation roles since even Army have conveyed that it could like Army variant of IMRH to be equipped with bombs, rockets, and gun pods so that it can be used to drop special forces behind enemy lines when required and also provide aerial cover fire for troops. IMRH reportedly will also be equipped with modern communication systems, ability to carry out operations at low and extremely low altitudes along with extreme High altitudes. While HAL is developing indigenous Hindustan Turbo-Shaft Engine (HTSE) 1200 ( 1,200 KW) helicopter engine to power host of Helicopters currently manufactured by the company But media reports, indicate that HTSE-1200 will be used in for use in helicopters in the 3.5 tonne and 5-8 tonne Helicopter classes and a suitable powerplant for IMRH might be an imported one .

    idrw.org . Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website http://idrw.org/weaponised-imrh/ .

     
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  15. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    Missiles, aircrafts, fighter jets, tanks, warships, rifles, ammunition and now choppers. For a developing country, Pakistan is doing quite well building a defence industry. Today were assembling and co-producing many platforms, creating an small scale ecosystem and tomorrow we will build up on these industries and develop homegrown designs.

    Kuddos to our military thank tank for their efficiency.
     
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  16. gslv markIII

    gslv markIII Regular Member

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    Really ? May I know in how many of these fields do you have any design capability ( Strategic systems such as BMs & CMs excluded).

    Anyway, the only AS 9100 C certified firm in Pakistan is PAC. So much for 'aerospace ecosystem'.
     
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  17. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    Read my post again. No such claims made.
     
  18. abingdonboy

    abingdonboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    How delusional are you? Pakistan's defence budget is around $7b with a CAPEX of maybe $3b and you think you're going to get 150 brand new attack helicopters Totally >$3.5 BILLION usd?

    Grow up pal.
     
  19. An Angry Potato

    An Angry Potato Regular Member

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    lol 150? whatever happened to your SU 35 order?
     
  20. aditya10r

    aditya10r Mera Bharat mahan Senior Member

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    Papa china did not gib moneee..............................................................................................................
     
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  21. suny6611

    suny6611 Regular Member

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    t 129 uses an US engine ..................... US has agreed to sell to pak (ie china )?
     

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