Pacifism and Morality

[Godless-Kafir]

I assume that You was teached that Romans were not Europeans.

Offcourse they are European but India and Afghanistan or Iran are in Asia as well but we dont consider Irans history as Indian history do we.

Or my english is so bad or... I think You do not understand that I'am against rascism of any sort. I was outraged when civfantic started to spread BS that was a pure rascism, now You understand?

Glad to hear that then, welcome aboard our humble ship of sanity.

Civfantic started to call us barbaric, primitive, we are not, so I defend my side of the fence. Someone said that some slavs from center Europe, for example Poles, wish to be part of west so they joined EU, nope, in fact nation have not much to say about joining EU, this is why there is strong opposition to EU, not only in Poland, look at the UK, the more obvious is that EU is "another USSR", the more people are against it, not to mention how much of our money is wasted by these stupid eurocrats.

The opposition did not stop Poland from joining EU. However i understand what you mean, i was talking about people who are desperate to seek forfeit their own history and hide behind the west. Strangely enough such people exist in India to.

Civfantic does piss all westerners off, there was an Australian member here who became a very close friend of mine, now we regularly voice chat through Skype and Gmail for hours. He to pointed out Civfanatic for the same issue, however Civfanatic is more confused than being a raceist. He probably thinks Whites think Indians are lesser than them, so he comes up arrogant in all discussions. I dont know.

Are you understand the difference between genetic level and cultural level that I mentioned?

The thought that i am different from you never enters my mind. Yes culturally we are different but culture which are ideas are constantly changing, just as we speak your ideas enrich me and i become a little polish and you become a little Atheist! hehe.. When i start liking Golabki i become more polish and when you like more Thandoori or Curry you become more Indian. Ideas are learn able, a Indian kid born in poland is as much polish as any one else until you see the skin color. It is a learn able intelligence, just as we learn english or a polish man can settle in England and over the period of time become english by culture, today we dont know who is polish or German in USA.

So I can not be even proud of what we, as western civilization gain?

I'am just unable to understand such twisted logic.

No matters, if someone here thinks that I will not be proud of being European, a Pole, a White man, then he is very wrong, I'am damn proud, and if someone do not like our civilisation achievements or our way to solvel problems, then this is his problem.

This is what you said, this does sound raceist. Just because Chinese and Japanese are Mongolian they dont call themselves proud to be Mongolian or Iranian and most Indians are also related to Europeans just like Arabs, it is called Indo-European family most of our languages share the same common ancestry that is why in the Dictionary you see the word "Indo-European" because all of us have similar words with same root but to say i am proud of "White man" is clearly based on skin color and not genetics. It is a divisive idea, if i say poland has not done as much as England or France then you will feel hurt to. so hideing behind such classifications makes us the "other".

"We" is a broad term your referring to and it is based on skin color and not on nationality or even genetics. As i said geographically and culturally both Indian and Arabs are Asian but to speak based on skin color like we are "brown men" and we are proud, do we ever say that? Then how can you talk of White men?

 

[pmaitra]

Watch your words: they become your thoughts.
Watch your thoughts: they become your actions.
Watch your actions: they become your habits.
Watch your habits: they become your destiny.

Golden words! Thank you for posting this! :thumb:

 

[civfanatic]

Civfantic does piss all westerners off, there was an Australian member here who became a very close friend of mine, now we regularly voice chat through Skype and Gmail for hours. He to pointed out Civfanatic for the same issue, however Civfanatic is more confused than being a raceist. He probably thinks Whites think Indians are lesser than them, so he comes up arrogant in all discussions. I dont know.

GK, I do not think your psychoanalysis of me (if that is the correct word) is accurate. Your Australian friend is a complete idiot (my personal opinion, don't take offence by it) with a very Western-centric view of the world. As a result he regularly spouted BS without knowing what he was talking and so he naturally received some flak from Indian members, including myself. Furthermore, I think you are the last person who can call other people "confused". You might want to take a look at this:Psychological projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, to the point of racism, I do not think Damian understands what "racism" is. Racism is the justification of discrimination based on perceived inherent differences between races. I do not believe I ever advocated for such, because I do not believe that inherent differences exist between races.

I stated that Europeans were not civilized because of their brutal tribal nature throughout history and their genocidal warmongering across the world. I am sure most people with an objective view would agree that cultures that engage in such activities, and then attempt to justify them through theories of racial supremacy, are barbaric cultures. However, I do not believe that Europeans are inherently barbaric due to some genetic differences; in fact, I stated earlier that I greatly admire the Scandinavians for their humane and well-developed nations. And everyone knows about the Ancient Greek civilization, which produced many great philosophers and thinkers. So obviously, not all Europeans are barbarians, nor do they become such by virtue of their race. Rather, I believe that there were various cultural and environmental factors which historically promoted barbarism among the Europeans, such as the adoption of the intolerant and expansionist Abrahamic religions and the lack of wealth in much of Europe.

Moreover, Damian's advocacy of genocide of "weaker" peoples and warmongering to increase one's own power only strengthens my argument.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Golden words! Thank you for posting this! :thumb:

Well i am bored and i want to write a theological answer.

Those words are not mine, it part of the world mind just like my monitor has no owner ship to the internet because it displays it, no man can be proud or take ownership of all the knowledge out there. Like a river flowing to the ocean our civilizations flow to the world mind, every man is a small rock or a pebble gently altering its course by his presence, after 50,000 years since we left africa today the west will not exist if not for the head waters up in the freezing summit did not take the grinding path through the falls, valleys and deep gorges to the final mere 200years which is like the massive basin before the ocean. To say only one part of the river is important is madness and only a fool will be proud of one part of the river, the summit, valley, gorges, tributaries, basin and even the small streams and rivulets all make the river. The bases of western civilization is middle eastern, Christianity was born in Palastein, the science and numeric is Indian, the people are african, the agriculture is Asian, the cotton and rest of the material from pottery do not originate in Europe. To say i am proud of one bit is missing the whole puzzle.

 

[civfanatic]

Those words are not mine, it part of the world mind just like my monitor has no owner ship to the internet because it displays it, no man can be proud or take ownership of all the knowledge out there. Like a river flowing to the ocean our civilizations flow to the world mind, every man is a small rock or a pebble gently altering its course by his presence, after 50,000 years since we left africa today the west will not exist if not for the head waters up in the freezing summit did not take the grinding path through the falls, valleys and deep gorges to the final mere 200years which is like the massive basin before the ocean. To say only one part of the river is important is madness and only a fool will be proud of one part of the river, the summit, valley, gorges, tributaries, basin and even the small streams and rivulets all make the river. The bases of western civilization is middle eastern, Christianity was born in Palastein, the science and numeric is Indian, the people are african, the agriculture is Asian, the cotton and rest of the material from pottery do not originate in Europe. To say i am proud of one bit is missing the whole puzzle.

Good post, I agree with it. Vasudhaiva kutumbakam.

 

[pmaitra]

Civfantic does piss all westerners off, there was an Australian member here who became a very close friend of mine, now we regularly voice chat through Skype and Gmail for hours. He to pointed out Civfanatic for the same issue, however Civfanatic is more confused than being a raceist. He probably thinks Whites think Indians are lesser than them, so he comes up arrogant in all discussions. I dont know.

GK, I do not think your psychoanalysis of me (if that is the correct word) is accurate. Your Australian friend is a complete idiot (my personal opinion, don't take offence by it) with a very Western-centric view of the world. As a result he regularly spouted BS without knowing what he was talking and so he naturally received some flak from Indian members, including myself. Furthermore, I think you are the last person who can call other people "confused". You might want to take a look at this:Psychological projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, to the point of racism, I do not think Damian understands what "racism" is. Racism is the justification of discrimination based on perceived inherent differences between races. I do not believe I ever advocated for such, because I do not believe that inherent differences exist between races.

I stated that Europeans were not civilized because of their brutal tribal nature throughout history and their genocidal warmongering across the world. I am sure most people with an objective view would agree that cultures that engage in such activities, and then attempt to justify them through theories of racial supremacy, are barbaric cultures. However, I do not believe that Europeans are inherently barbaric due to some genetic differences; in fact, I stated earlier that I greatly admire the Scandinavians for their humane and well-developed nations. And everyone knows about the Ancient Greek civilization, which produced many great philosophers and thinkers. So obviously, not all Europeans are barbarians, nor do they become such by virtue of their race. Rather, I believe that there were various cultural and environmental factors which historically promoted barbarism among the Europeans, such as the adoption of the intolerant and expansionist Abrahamic religions and the lack of wealth in much of Europe.

Moreover, Damian's advocacy of genocide of "weaker" peoples and warmongering to increase one's own power only strengthens my argument.

CivFanatic and GK, are you guys talking about AOE? If yes, I have myself run into turbulent waters with AOE. He is very western centric and lacks basic understanding of ground realities. His opinions are unoriginal and largely a rehash of existing western propaganda with a generous hint of his own passion.

You guys can check out my interaction with him here (scroll down): http://defenceforumindia.com/milita...iet-armed-forces-soviet-army-1946-1991-a.html

I will say no more about him.

We need more international participants and I think we also need to make foreigners comfortable here at DFI. Unnecessarily bringing race into discussions, unless it is warranted, will only make them defensive and reluctant to post. Let us be the bigger men and allow some leeway to the foreigners. After all, they are guests and we want to encourage them to participate in DFI.

 

[civfanatic]

CivFanatic and GK, are you guys talking about AOE? If yes, I have myself run into turbulent waters with AOE. He is very western centric and lacks basic understanding of ground realities. His opinions are unoriginal and largely a rehash of existing western propaganda with a generous hint of his own passion.

Yes, we are talking about him. Also check my "debate" with him in the Alexander Invades India thread.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

GK, I do not think your psychoanalysis of me (if that is the correct word) is accurate. Your Australian friend is a complete idiot (my personal opinion, don't take offence by it) with a very Western-centric view of the world. As a result he regularly spouted BS without knowing what he was talking and so he naturally received some flak from Indian members, including myself. Furthermore, I think you are the last person who can call other people "confused". You might want to take a look at this:Psychological projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, to the point of racism, I do not think Damian understands what "racism" is. Racism is the justification of discrimination based on perceived inherent differences between races. I do not believe I ever advocated for such, because I do not believe that inherent differences exist between races.

I stated that Europeans were not civilized because of their brutal tribal nature throughout history and their genocidal warmongering across the world. I am sure most people with an objective view would agree that cultures that engage in such activities, and then attempt to justify them through theories of racial supremacy, are barbaric cultures. However, I do not believe that Europeans are inherently barbaric due to some genetic differences; in fact, I stated earlier that I greatly admire the Scandinavians for their humane and well-developed nations. And everyone knows about the Ancient Greek civilization, which produced many great philosophers and thinkers. So obviously, not all Europeans are barbarians, nor do they become such by virtue of their race. Rather, I believe that there were various cultural and environmental factors which historically promoted barbarism among the Europeans, such as the adoption of the intolerant and expansionist Abrahamic religions and the lack of wealth in much of Europe.



Moreover, Damian's advocacy of genocide of "weaker" peoples and warmongering to increase one's own power only strengthens my argument.

I agree, that was well put but the high light in bold, do you see how that one could go down badly with Europeans, even a good point is lost when you say it with careless and arrogant sounding sentences.

Europeans are normal people like us, so even if there are flaws we ask to much of the average person to shoulder in terms of guilt. So they get defensive at that.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Yes, we are talking about him. Also check my "debate" with him in the Alexander Invades India thread.

Lol, its funny how we still remember AOE. He did leave quite an impression.

 

[civfanatic]

I agree, that was well put but the high light in bold, do you see how that one could go down badly with Europeans, even a good point is lost when you say it with careless and arrogant sounding sentences.

Europeans are normal people like us, so even if there are flaws we ask to much of the average person to shoulder in terms of guilt. So they get defensive at that.

Generally, I do not bring up such matters in my personal interactions with Europeans, nor do I expect the average European to feel constant shame and guilt for what his ancestors did. However, there are some people who still have a very biased, ethno-centric view of the world and believe that Europeans are culturally superior to others, were justified in colonizing other "inferior" peoples, that warfare is fundamentally good, etc. It is these people whom I cannot stand.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Generally, I do not bring up such matters in my personal interactions with Europeans, nor do I expect the average European to feel constant shame and guilt for what his ancestors did. However, there are some people who still have a very biased, ethno-centric view of the world and believe that Europeans are culturally superior to others, were justified in colonizing other "inferior" peoples, that warfare is fundamentally good, etc. It is these people whom I cannot stand.

Ya me to, your totally right on.

Some how a lot of europeans get defensive if we take this. Americans are a little less aggressive on this i feel. Some how just like Islam gave the Arab pride, Christianity gave europe the white pride. It is cultivated from the idea of superior believers and lowly heathens and pagans.