OK,PAKISTANIS,TIME FOR THE TRUTH,WHICH ISN'T COMPLICATED...

[kenyannoobie]

.....there's no way in hell you can win a conventional was against India! Any armed non NBC confrontation between your countries targeting each others forces can only lead to one outcome-defeat for Pakistan.
No matter how wonderfully your SSGs,JF 17s, Al Khalids,Scorpenes and F 22s perform the simple fact is that in such warfare the winner is predetermined by the ability of one combatant to produce and throw processed steel at the enemy.
Don't listen to me,hear Isoroku Yamamoto,prior to Pearl Harbour.

"In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success."

Btw,he was the father of Japanese naval aviation and the brains behind much of their early success. Incidentally,their first major reverse,Midway happened,exactly 6 months later. Even a genius such as he recognised the inevitability of superior industrial production capacity.

Have you seen the new Indian weapons systems inducted in the past 5 years??
The Dhruv,Rudra,Tejas Mk 1,Mk11,ATAGS,The Trichu,Excalibur and Ghatak have all been designed,productionised and inducted (or in the process.) If I've missed out any major weapon please let me know.
Btw,its taken you guys almost 2 years to test and decide on the foreign rifle rifle to replace the Queen of battle,the G3 in the same time!!
Recognise reality-refocus geostrategically and enjoy successes. Frankly you'll be abducted by aliens,before you beat the "Yindoos" in conventional war, especially given the war history we need not recount here.
So as not to overload this thread I'll later start another thread in the direction you should refocus that leverages your national strengths:
-large number of armed forces battle hardened in frequent COIN skirmishes and conventional war
-shared Islamic religion
-strategic position just outside the Asian 'stans astride the main ME sea lane of the Arabian sea
-better trained tri service relative to Muslim nations
-one of the better Islamic nations weapons industries

PS,I searched for a similar thread before posting. If it already exists,please merge!

 

[Mikesingh]

No matter how wonderfully your SSGs, JF 17s, Al Khalids, Scorpenes and F 22s perform.......

F-22s?????????????

What the......

 

[porky_kicker]

.....there's no way in hell you can win a conventional was against India! Any armed non NBC confrontation between your countries targeting each others forces can only lead to one outcome-defeat for Pakistan.
No matter how wonderfully your SSGs,JF 17s, Al Khalids,Scorpenes and F 22s perform the simple fact is that in such warfare the winner is predetermined by the ability of one combatant to produce and throw processed steel at the enemy.
Don't listen to me,hear Isoroku Yamamoto,prior to Pearl Harbour.

"In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success."

Btw,he was the father of Japanese naval aviation and the brains behind much of their early success. Incidentally,their first major reverse,Midway happened,exactly 6 months later. Even a genius such as he recognised the inevitability of superior industrial production capacity.

Have you seen the new Indian weapons systems inducted in the past 5 years??
The Dhruv,Rudra,Tejas Mk 1,Mk11,ATAGS,The Trichu,Excalibur and Ghatak have all been designed,productionised and inducted (or in the process.) If I've missed out any major weapon please let me know.
Btw,its taken you guys almost 2 years to test and decide on the foreign rifle rifle to replace the Queen of battle,the G3 in the same time!!
Recognise reality-refocus geostrategically and enjoy successes. Frankly you'll be abducted by aliens,before you beat the "Yindoos" in conventional war, especially given the war history we need not recount here.
So as not to overload this thread I'll later start another thread in the direction you should refocus that leverages your national strengths:
-large number of armed forces battle hardened in frequent COIN skirmishes and conventional war
-shared Islamic religion
-strategic position just outside the Asian 'stans astride the main ME sea lane of the Arabian sea
-better trained tri service relative to Muslim nations
-one of the better Islamic nations weapons industries

PS,I searched for a similar thread before posting. If it already exists,please merge!

Scorpenes and F 22s ?
pakis can only dream about them in this world and in the afterlife with their 72 goats :biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:


never knew about the Isoroku Yamamoto fellow

and your point about superior industrial production capacity is very valid though

 

[kenyannoobie]

Scorpenes and F 22s ?
pakis can only dream about them in this world and in the afterlife with their 72 goats :biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:


never knew about the Isoroku Yamamoto fellow

and your point about superior industrial production capacity is very valid though

F 22 is a licence built Chinese type 053H Pakistani frigate,of which they have 4.

120 m,chopper hangar,76 mm main gun,8 cell
FM 90 SAM and 2x 4 cell C-802 Ashm for under 200 mn$ really isn't too bad though the latter isn't in the same class as the Brahmos.

Oops my bad about the Scorpenes! Should've said Agostas though they originally wanted Scorpenes which their 'Yindoo' neighbours inducted around the same time.

 

[kenyannoobie]

Hmm....we don't need another thread to expand this thread. Here's what Pakistan should've done wayyyyy back in the day;now it may already be too late. As I said do what everyone does;take advantage of your national strengths:
-large number of armed forces battle hardened in frequent COIN skirmishes and conventional war
-shared Islamic religion
-strategic position just outside the Asian 'stans astride the main ME sea lane of the Arabian sea
-better trained tri service relative to Muslim nations
-one of the better Islamic nations weapons industries

At the same time you're closer to the real action than the Indonesians who outnumber you by over 60 mn. If I were in your planning level I'd have focused immediately on grabbing a piece of the ME action. A softly softy approach with the veneer of Islamic brotherhood would've allowed large Pakistani forces in the GCC as training/homeguard/ peacekeeping forces.
Instead decades and billions were wasted attempting to punch above your weight. In the mid 60s Bhutto said "if India builds the bomb, we will eat grass or leaves, even go hungry, but we will get one of our own."
http://www.nti.org/learn/countries/pakistan/nuclear/

By now you'd have established a permanent armed Pakistani presence in the trillionaire sub region;instead you're pretending the Kashmiris are Palestinians and you'll conquer the 'Yindoos' like the Mughals. Anyway,those are the same guys who proudly planned the East Pakistan debacle and the Kargil disaster.
In the real world,the world of Men,countries follow their interests. Imo,you'd have achieved much focusing here fighting for your own national interests,including financial. If it would mean,proxy wars and/or claims of extortion so be it! You'd have been the unofficial regional king maker like the Camel that crept into the tent and displaced then owner.
Look at your GDP vis a vis the GCC,no comparison! That's how the Goras developed as you know;not caping for Palestinians,Kashmiris,spotted owls,baby seals,whales and what not.
However it may be too late-the crypto Zionists Saudis have nukes they've used at least twice in the Yemen. Truly,you're in a double bind-continue the spectacularly unsuccessful Indian confrontation or totally refocus and rejig your resources with a more realistic objective.