Light Strike Vehicle RFI

[JBH22]

Cost buddy... A shell costs 20 times cheaper than an ATGM.

Reaction time less with missile.

Accuracy improved.

Less ammo expended.

 

[arnabmit]

Reaction time less with missile. - Time to load a LTA unit on the CLU takes the same time as it takes to load an RCL shell.

Accuracy improved. - RCL with FCS is as much accurate, if not more

Less ammo expended. - even if it uses 4 times more ammo, which it would not need to, it would still be 5 times cheaper

Answered inline.

Only bone is that the 106mm had a range of 2km, against much longer range of missiles.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

RCL have its own issues..

It require more crew..

It makes huge flash so does heavy..

The system is obsolete against modern & upgraded tanks now days but not against Infantry fortifications ..

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Two pictures >>

Instead of Heavy 106mm, The lighter 84mm RCL doing well, It can engage enemy tank / fortifications from 1.5kms accurately and these RCL are mounted on jeep not carried over shoulder..

Other pic is ATGM mounted over a Mahindra jeep ..

 

[hitesh]

 

[pmaitra]

106mm RCL guns ( Americans developed 105mm our Ordinance factories changed it to 106 mm ) initially were mounted on Mahindra jeeps ( petrol, continuation of the British Willys)

Willys is an American company based out of Ohio.

 

[ghost]

it looks that the on going user trial of army lsv are going on in full flow.these are recent pick of tata lsv trial in pune on october 2013

 

[ghost]

some more

courtesy motorbash

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Windy, the wonder

HYDERABAD: It has an innocuous name, Windy-505. In fact it is the Indian Army's first-ever patented product - a high-mobility, fast-attack vehicle capable of moving in rugged terrain carrying surveillance equipment and armament.

The state-of-the-art vehicle equipped with a medium missile gun and Global Positioning System is a unique innovation of the Corps of Electronics and Mechanical Engineers (EME) and was unveiled last week on the occasion of the eighth Corps Reunion of the EME in Secunderabad.

"This vehicle has received widespread acclaim for its low silhouette and high combat power," says EME Director-General Lt-General V.K. Dhir. The design took two years of inhouse R&D trials and Windy costs Rs.8 lakh.

About 20 vehicles will be made initially as a part of the strategy to introduce advanced technology weapon systems to sustain the army's combat edge.

Read more at: Windy-505: Indian Army's first-ever patented, high-mobility, fast-attack vehicle : INDIASCOPE - India Today

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===================================

Army chief Gen NC Vij today handed over to the army a patent-the first for any of its innovations-for its high mobility attack vehicle. The patent for Windy 505, designed and developed by the Corps of Electronic and Mechanical Engineers (EME), with high all-terrain mobility, was released on the occasion of the eighth corps reunion held at IEME Centre, Secunderabad, near here. Windy 505 has a power-to-weight ratio 40:1 by far the highest in India. "Nowhere in the world is a vehicle with such width and length available," an official press statement said.

Source :http://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/documents/corp_of_eme.pdf

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Resemblance of Windy 505 design in TATA LSV ..

Look lot same in concept, Bulky Heavy body, With lots of space, As of my experience they are not practical in every terrain of India ..

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@kshkumsin, Your request for poll is now added ....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

More Pictures of TATA LSV in testing ..

------------

 

[hitesh]

India better find a LSV fast because chines coming fully loaded and we don't have a good Jeep yet .
Some may find it offending but you should know what your would be enemy is using

 

[Twinblade]

Windy 505 might have been ordered in small numbers by army internally from EME corps but it is not a part of LSV tender. It's a jugaad vehicle that is supposed to fill in till proper LSVs come in.

Deftech is a Malaysian company that itself bought the flyer design from Singapore. The flyer is a successful and very capable design by Flyer defence that has been used by several countries. A heavier variant of the Flyer design by General Dynamics has been selected by US SOCOM recently. The greatest advantage of Flyer is that it can be carried in Chinook and Ospreys internally with ease. How OFB ended with the flyer design or which company did they use as consultant to design their version is unknown. Here's OFB Flyer in it's original left hand drive version.

It was presented in the 2008 trials in the finished version..

OFB Flyer, last second from left.

The contenders known at this point are
1. TATA LSV (already covered in this thread)
2. Mahindra & Mahindra AXE (already covered in this thread)
3. Vectra LSV (already covered in this thread)
4. OFB Flyer (see above)
5. Ashok Leyland Colt (developed with Panhard)

6. Land Rover Defender/Wolf/Snatch (already covered in this thread)

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Windy 505 is design and fabricated as per Army`s requirement by Army itself, I wont call it as a jugaad but true LSV for the need, Though they are not part of tender ..

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==================

A&L offered Panhard but may not be a contender of LSV , The real player is somewhat a new design, It comes in close and open variant ..

Early prototype

Recent 2012 prototype

==========

As we havent seen A&L in trails, Its hard to comment abt their role in this tender, That is why i haven't mention them..

Though i doubt regarding foreign vehicles in the tender due to there nature, Army issued specific specs for LSV and all are design from scratch to meet the requirement ..

A few corrections to your post.
Windy 505 might have been ordered in small numbers by army internally from EME corps but it is not a part of LSV tender. It's a jugaad vehicle that is supposed to fill in till proper LSVs come in.

Ashok Leyland Colt designed with Panhard.

..and Land Rover Defender/Wolf/Snatch (logically, it will also be marketed and manufactured by Tata which is the parent company now) is also being pushed as an entry. These are the companies which have publicly declared their products for LSV tender. There may be more that we are not aware of.

 

[Twinblade]

A&L offered Panhard but may not be a contender of LSV , The real player is somewhat a new design, It comes in close and open variant ..


As we havent seen A&L in trails, Its hard to comment abt their role in this tender, That is why i haven't mention them..

Though i doubt regarding foreign vehicles in the tender due to there nature, Army issued specific specs for LSV and all are design from scratch to meet the requirement ..

Colt already has a soft top/buggy variant. a hard top variant and an armoured variant. They have taken the technologies from Panhard VBL and fitted them on Ashok Leyland frame. The trials would probably be conducted again because the army could not finalise the requirements of the tender. RFI's have been sent, it's yet to be seen how many get shortlisted for new trials.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its highly doubtful that requirement are not yet finalized, Windy 505 is a good example of what Army needs ..

TATA and Vectra seems to follow windy design, I should mention that Windy program started long back before this tender was launched ..

 

[hitesh]

@Kunal
Windi505

Some questions arise about This

1 What engine it uses?

2 Is it a 4x4

About TATA LSV ,it would have bin good if they would have used coil suspension instead of leaf suspension

 

[Eastman]

@Kunal
Windi505

Some questions arise about This

1 What engine it uses?

2 Is it a 4x4

About TATA LSV ,it would have bin good if they would have used coil suspension instead of leaf suspension

1.

2. yes from the picture it seems it got a differential at front wheel .

Coil spring suspension if beneficial on independent axle design it can offer better high speed stability but TATA LSVs fixed axle design defeats the advantage of coil spring arrangement if the suspension system would have been independent like that of Mahindra AXE (even at rear wheel) coil spring would have come handy. Advantage of leaf spring suspension are it is simple, sturdy and cheap to manufacture and maintain. On the other hand Fixed axle arrangement to is simple sturdy and cheap compared to independent axle arrangement. Another advantage for a leaf spring design is the vehicles load carrying capacity can be increased considerably in a short span of time and right at the servicing garage without major suspension and structural modification (at mechanic level then at engineer level) upon the vehicle by just strengthening the tension bearing capability of the leaf spring like adding more spring sheets, plus it would be a disaster to employee a coil spring arrangement for a fixed axle on differential design with out special provision to hold the play of the suspension, some thing I am not familiar with.

Even TATRA's unique suspension and axle design uses leaf spring for its sturdiness plus you dont experience the disadvantage of torque wind up on a TATRA's
due to its unique design

 

[Twinblade]

Its highly doubtful that requirement are not yet finalized, Windy 505 is a good example of what Army needs ..

The Army has so far been given an opportunity to try out a series of LSVs both Indian and foreign-made. Indian contenders are likely to include the Mahindra Axe and Tata LSV, while the foreign offerings include the Defender series from Land Rover. Trials will be conducted across terrain in three different theatres since the selected vehicles are likely to be purchased in large numbers for use across arms. Variants of the LSVs with weapons fitment capabilities will also be incorporated once the tender is finalised this year.

This article is from march last year. It seems that the previous trials were not a part of formal tender process.
Army wants Light Specialist Vehicle - SP's Land Forces

TATA and Vectra seems to follow windy design, I should mention that Windy program started long back before this tender was launched ..

Windy is just a pimped out Jonga with a wide body and brutish engine. Vectra LSV is a sixty year old design that has been heavily modernised and Tata LSV seems to have derived more inspiration from Land Rover Defender than anything. It seems that Tata has done their research into every aspect of roles that LSV will have to perform. They are offering Tata LSV in the following roles:-

Light Multipurpose Reconnaissance Vehicle (LAM)

Armed Reconnaissance Vehicle

LSV with Protection for Counter Insurgency Operations

Observation Post (OP) Party Vehicle

Field Artillery Tractor (FAT) for Para Field Artillery Regiments

Recce Vehicle for Gun Position Officer (GPO) for Artillery Regiments

Recce, Surveillance & Ghatak Platoon Vehicle for Infantry

Engineering Reconnaissance Vehicle

Common Utility Communication Vehicle

Ambulance Vehicle

Field Repair Team Vehicle

Para (SF) and BC/OC Parties of Para Field Regiment

Low Level Lightweight Radar for Air Defence Artillery

IGLA Carrier for Air Defence Artillery

Coverer Vehicle for Air Defence Artillery

LSV-based Light Radio Vehicle/Communication Rover for Signals

LSV for Tactical Satellite Terminals for Signals

Shelter for Unit Entity Vehicle for Signals

Cable Utility Vehicle for Corps of Signals

Shelter for Unit Field Wireless System for Corps of Signals

If Tata LSV gets through the 'physical' part of the trials, it will be unstoppable and that's a big 'if' considering it is designed around leaf suspensions and can be called underpowered, if not anaemic. As it is Tata is offering servicing and maintenance for all its defence vehicles (including mine protected vehicles) at any commercial Tata service station and compared to AXE, Flyer and Colt it seems to be a much cheaper design using a small engine and leaf suspensions. Although other three Indian offerings, AXE, Flyer and Colt, seem better products on paper (and in case of Colt, I must say very good looking) they won't be able to match Tata's price and the entire package. Land Rover and Vectra's designs though rugged and successful seem entirely dated. In fact I have been underwhelmed by the two foreign designs. Also missing are proposals from Ford, Nissan, Toyota, Suzuki and General motors, none of them small players in India.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Well @Twinblade, I have to say there is indeed something new i learned from your post, Keep up the gud work ..