Know Your 'Rafale'

[WolfPack86]

DRAL to start Falcon 2000 fuselage assembly in Aug
Nagpur: Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL), which is scaling up its operations at Mihan-SEZ, plans to start production of fuselage assemblies of Falcon 2000 aircraft — the business jet made by Dassault Aviation, as a next step.


The DRAL unit at Mihan has been set up under the offset agreement arising out the sale of 36 Rafale fighter planes by France’s Dassault Aviation to Indian Air Force (IAF).

DRAL, which has started operations at Nagpur over a year ago, began with smaller components like fuel tank and cockpit assemblies. It will be shifting to a larger unit within its plot in Mihan.

The unit is expected to be ready soon and production of the fuselage assemblies is planned to start in August. This will be a major step towards a larger plan of finally flying an entire Falcon 2000 from the Mihan unit by 2022.

Fuselage component is a major part of the aircraft structure. In terms of proportion, in an entire aircraft it comes to as much as 45% of the mechanical structure of a plane, explained a source. In simpler words, a sizeable part of the aircraft’s body would be made here.

Once the production begins, it is projected that the first unit of fuselage assembly may be shipped out in October or November. A formal inauguration of the new set up is also expected to be held around a month after the production starts at the unit here.

The Rafale purchase has led to an offset obligation worth over Rs30,000 crore toward Dassault which will be carried out through DRAL. However, at present DRAL will be carrying out works only related to the Falcon which is a civilian jet made by Dassault under the offset deal. There are no plans at least in the immediate term for starting work related to the Rafale aircraft.

DRAL’s unit is within the Dhirubhai Ambani Aerospace Park (DAAP). Anil Ambani’s Reliance Aerostructure Limited (RAL) was allotted land in Mihan for the aerospace park. The company has secured a co-developer status which means it can also allot space to other players in the area. DRAL, which is a joint venture between Reliance and Dassault, has been allotted 60 acres by RAL.

Sources said DRAL at present has employed 50 persons. However, there are plans to take it up to 500 when the unit eventually is fully operational making an entire aircraft from here.

France’s Thales Group has also been allotted six acre land in the RAL’s area. Sources said work is at an advanced stage at the site where the company would be coming up with a radar testing unit.

DRAL has been allotted land in Reliance Aerostructure Limited’s area in Mihan
RAL which has got 111 acre land in Mihan has a co-developer status
This means it can allot land to other players
DRAL to carry out work under offset obligation arising out 36 Rafale fighter jet purchase
Work to remain limited to Falcon, the civilian jet of Dassault, at present
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2019/07/dral-to-start-falcon-2000-fuselage.html

 

[ganesh177]

....................................................

 

[BON PLAN]

DRAL to start Falcon 2000 fuselage assembly in Aug
Nagpur: Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL), which is scaling up its operations at Mihan-SEZ, plans to start production of fuselage assemblies of Falcon 2000 aircraft — the business jet made by Dassault Aviation, as a next step.


The DRAL unit at Mihan has been set up under the offset agreement arising out the sale of 36 Rafale fighter planes by France’s Dassault Aviation to Indian Air Force (IAF).

DRAL, which has started operations at Nagpur over a year ago, began with smaller components like fuel tank and cockpit assemblies. It will be shifting to a larger unit within its plot in Mihan.

The unit is expected to be ready soon and production of the fuselage assemblies is planned to start in August. This will be a major step towards a larger plan of finally flying an entire Falcon 2000 from the Mihan unit by 2022.

Fuselage component is a major part of the aircraft structure. In terms of proportion, in an entire aircraft it comes to as much as 45% of the mechanical structure of a plane, explained a source. In simpler words, a sizeable part of the aircraft’s body would be made here.

Once the production begins, it is projected that the first unit of fuselage assembly may be shipped out in October or November. A formal inauguration of the new set up is also expected to be held around a month after the production starts at the unit here.

The Rafale purchase has led to an offset obligation worth over Rs30,000 crore toward Dassault which will be carried out through DRAL. However, at present DRAL will be carrying out works only related to the Falcon which is a civilian jet made by Dassault under the offset deal. There are no plans at least in the immediate term for starting work related to the Rafale aircraft.

DRAL’s unit is within the Dhirubhai Ambani Aerospace Park (DAAP). Anil Ambani’s Reliance Aerostructure Limited (RAL) was allotted land in Mihan for the aerospace park. The company has secured a co-developer status which means it can also allot space to other players in the area. DRAL, which is a joint venture between Reliance and Dassault, has been allotted 60 acres by RAL.

Sources said DRAL at present has employed 50 persons. However, there are plans to take it up to 500 when the unit eventually is fully operational making an entire aircraft from here.

France’s Thales Group has also been allotted six acre land in the RAL’s area. Sources said work is at an advanced stage at the site where the company would be coming up with a radar testing unit.

DRAL has been allotted land in Reliance Aerostructure Limited’s area in Mihan
RAL which has got 111 acre land in Mihan has a co-developer status
This means it can allot land to other players
DRAL to carry out work under offset obligation arising out 36 Rafale fighter jet purchase
Work to remain limited to Falcon, the civilian jet of Dassault, at present
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2019/07/dral-to-start-falcon-2000-fuselage.html

The plan was to built some sub system for Falcon asap (because the production rate of Falcon is higher than those of Rafale, and the components less technically chalenged).
In case of a Rafale selection for other batch or MMRCA2, to move to Rafale components but mainly to add a new warehouse (there is space available) to assemble the plane in case of. It takes only 8-9 months to built a nw warehouse once you have the space for it.
Dassault is in a situation it can offer the best lead time to built a fighter in India. A real asset.

Another idea of Dassault is to produce in India a Falcon specially made for the Indian market... so as to fit to the customer needs, to reduce the price, and to rely on the indian top brass pride to choose a jet built in India....

 

[vishwaprasad]

Described as a ‘royal merciless game-changer’, the Sukhoi Su-30 ‘Flanker’ is a monster: a long-ranged, well armed, unbeatably manoeuvrable fighter uniquely equipped with 3D thrust-vectoring control (TVC) enabling it to perform seemingly impossible aerobatics in the sky. We spoke to IAF Gp Capt Anurag Sharma to learn more about flying and fighting in the Russian superfighter.

What were your first impressions of the Su-30?
“I was awestruck at the size of this monster! I caught a glimpse of it at Bangalore Airshow in 1997 (I was part of the inaugural day fly past in a Jaguar formation). There it stood in the lineup….. majestic, mighty and muscular! Head and shoulders above the crowd! Even the Air Display by the Russian Test Pilot was a show stopper. The M2000, F-16 etc were just no match for this beauty.”

“Another mission that stand out is a group combat mission that was pitching a Su-30…against three F-16… End score one F-16 claimed without loss.”




What’s the difference between a K and MKI and which is better?
“Su-30K was basically the Su-27 UB (trainer version) modified to be a two-seater fighter and the Su-30 MKI is a two seater upgraded version of Su-30K. While the two maybe classified into the same family and have few physical differences (canards, nosewheel, thrust vectoring and glass cockpit); the operational philosophy of the two aircraft is vastly different because of the much-upgraded operational capability of the MKI.

The Su-30 K was basically an air defence fighter of the 3.5 Gen that could drop dumb bombs (albeit in large quantities). But the MKI is a multirole fighter in the real sense of the word. The enhanced avionics package, weapons, near AESA airborne interception radar that permits simultaneous Air-to-air and air-to-ground targeting puts the MKI in a league of its own. The fly-by-wire system of the MKI allows carefree handling viz-a-viz Su-30K. The Su-30 K was handling with care especially in the low speed regime whereas the MKI is carefree handling all the way!

Personally, my heart is with the Su-30K! perhaps because I grew up on it. Attempting to master the Su-30K was a challenge in itself because you had to develop “seat of the pants feeling” in an aircraft that was not carefree handling (as you would expect a FBW aircraft to be). The avionics package, information presentation was rudimentary and presented great challenges as an operator. I think that is what made it special. The skill of the pilot counted more on that type.

But given a choice, I would pick the MKI for a combat fight. The total package of the MKI is a force multiplier in combat!!! Hands down!!

Which three words best describe it?
“Royal, merciless, game-changer.”

5. What is the best thing about it?
Ans. As a fighter pilot, you look to emerge victorious in every battle; the Su-30 gives you that confidence. Rest is up to you!

And the worst thing?
“Haven’t found one yet!”


How you rate the Su-30 in the following categories?
“A. Instantaneous turn– at high speeds, a shade slow, but once you get her to 650-709 Kmph- as goos as any. With thrust vectoring- unparalleled!

B. Sustained turn– depends upon the load and altitude. At medium altitudes with AA loads only very good and matches any other 4/5 gen fighter ac.

C. High alpha- Exceptional! Requires skill but once you know what to do- she’s a beauty!

D. Acceleration. The Su-30K was faster because it was lighter but the MKI is good when it comes to low speed combat against F-16/F-18/ Mirage 2000 class of aircraft. Acceleration also depends upon the load carried.”

The Su-30K had a greater reserve of power; even in the MKI, ROC is very good for its huge size. You can feel the acceleration when she climbs!


What was your most memorable mission?
“Well there have been many over the years but a few that stand out are as follows: –

(a) DACT with F-16 Block 60 of Royal Singapore Air Force.

The strongest adversary that we could possibly face in our life as a fighter pilot was the F-16 of PAF (for obvious reasons). So the excitement of facing an F-16, even in a mock combat was unbelievable. The weight of the mission was overbearing! Perhaps that’s what makes it special. As the combat commenced, we manoeuvred for our lives and in very little time the situation was in our favour! The desperate calls from the F-16, “Flare, Flare, Flare!” are very distinctly audible in my ears even today! From that day, the anxiety that prevailed over facing an F-16 in combat was gone forever…. Vanished! It was clear what the outcome would be!”

“Another mission that stand out is a group combat mission that was pitching a Su-30 & one MiG-21 BISON against three F-16 . As luck would have it, the BISON did not get airborne and now the game was one Su-30 vs three F-16 in a BVR scenario. Again, we pushed the envelope, manoeuvred between 3000 ft to 32000 ft, pulling up to 8 g, turning, tumbling, firing and escaping missiles in a simulated engagement. The crew co-ord between us in the cockpit and the fighter controller on the ground was the best that I have ever seen! The results in a mock combat are always contentious but with ACMI, they are more reliable. End score one F-16 claimed without loss. When we got out of the cockpit we were thoroughly drenched in sweat and tired from the continuous high G manoeuvring but all smiles for the ecstasy that we had just experienced.”

Which aircraft have you flown DACT against and which was the most challenging?
“In the Su-30 I have flown DACT with RSAF (Royal Singapore Air Force) F-16, M-2000 H /5[ FAF], MiG -29 amongst the ASFs. I think the most challenging was the M2000 in France. The carefree manoeuvrability of the Mirage its nose profile and avionics package perhaps gave it an edge over the others. The F-16 beyond the initial turn loses steam, the MiG -29 is very powerful but conventional controls maybe …. . A good Mirage guy can manoeuvre more carefree.”

Typhoon pilots say they ‘trounced’ the Su-30 in DACT exercises, yet Su-30 say the reverse? What is the truth?
“Well I wasn’t part of that exercise but some close friends were. The story goes both ways especially when you are engaged in friendly exercises with fixed rules of engagements! I think it’s an even fight and the man behind the machine would make the difference! Such a contest gets any fighter jock drooling!”

How easy is to fly? What is the hardest thing about flying it?
“Basic flying is not very difficult including exercises such as AA refueling. But it’s a Herculean task to reach a level where you can exploit it to its fullest especially in large Force Engagements (LFE) The capability of the aircraft outruns you by miles. In fact, at times even 7 Multi-Function Displays (MFD) and two aircrew are insufficient to achieve what she can do for you!”


Is TVC useful in air combat? If so, how should it be used?
“Most people think that it’s not! My suspicion is that’s because it requires skill to put it to good use. Once two beasts of this kind engage in combat, it goes down to the wire and in the low speed regime the TVC allows you just the edge you’ve been looking for. Just 300m is enough to get to the right angle and Boom!”

How would you rate the cockpit?
The cockpit is Russian! hey don’t build the aircraft around the pilot like the western manufacturers do! So the ergonomics leave a lot to be desired. The HOTAS could be designed much better. But ask anyone who hasn’t flown other types and he’s okay with this!

Have you fired live weapons- if so, what was it like?
Yes,! AA missiles, LGB, and Runway denial weapons. Weapon delivery is really exciting! The adrenaline rush, the cold sweat that trickles down your temples when you press the trigger are a different feeling altogether. They are really expensive and hence the opportunity comes rarely. The thing that worries you most is that you don’t want to be the dumbass when it comes to firing Smart Weapons

I think the AA missile is the best! When the weapon leaves your wing, the plume, noise and shear power of the accelerating missile is breathtaking.

How confident would a Su-30 pilot feel going against a modern USAF F-15C?
“As far as the platform is concerned, he’s got a better baby in his hands. No doubt!”

What is the greatest myth about the Su-30?
“That it’s too big to manoeuvre!”

How combat effective is the Su-30?
“A game changer!”

How reliable and easy to maintain is it?
“Reliable – yes! Maintenance- extensive!

What tips would you give new pilots coming onto the Su-30?
“It’s like a Tapasya (Sanskrit word meaning total selfless commitment. Dedication, commitment and patient hard work will reveal the true pleasures of flying to you! Early days are tough, just hang in there, get over the hump and you will experience heavenly pleasure that only fighter pilots have been blessed with.

How much post-stall manoeuvring can the average squadron pilot do? Is this a rare skill?
“Independent manoeuvres – they do it from day one (it’s that easy!). Relative manoeuvring in relation to an adversary in the sky requires extensive training and skill development! The manoeuvres can be counter productive in not done correctly.”

What is the hardest manoeuvre to pull off in a Su-30?
“A downward combat manoeuvre with TVC at low levels against a manoeuvring target.”

As a personal opinion: What should the Indian Air Force procure and what should it get rid of?
“Well, the Old Gen’ aircraft are already being phased out and The IAF is in the process of procuring the Rafale (a great choice!) The LCA development and large-scale induction into the IAF is no-brainer! It must be done but the platform should be a qualitative addition as well! Just adding numbers is not the right answer. Self-dependency is critical for India’s growth and rise as a major power on the World stage. There is a huge prospect of joint development with other major manufactures around the world such as BAE that have been traditional defence suppliers for IAF.”

Tell me something I don’t know about the Su-30?
“The Su-30 MKI has perhaps as many players as the Typhoon! The Russians provide most of the hardware; Indian , French, Israeli industries provide software, avionics and weapons! The Russians won’t give their knowhow to Israelis and the French won’t give it to Russians. So it’s is a great achievement to get these components talking to each other! The Heart of the avionics system that communicates with all these various systems is Indian.

What should I have asked you about the Su-30?
“A fighter pilot has a unique relation with his aircraft. A unique bonding; much like the Avatar with his Ikran*! . Sharing that feeling with another occupant in the cockpit is not easy! Especially when your WSO is not fixed.

Loosing that privacy or rather intimacy is not easy! While you learnt to live with it, I personally consider a huge loss as a fighter pilot. But alas there is no way out! With such competent platforms; perhaps two crew are indispensable!”
*the dragon in the Avatar film

The R-73 is an old missile- What do you think about the idea of adding ASRAAM to the Su-30?
“The Su-30 is getting upgrades continuously and plans are in place to enhance the weapon inventory. So it’s a cat and mouse game with the adversary being payed all the time.”

How good is the helmet mounted sight – is it used much in air-to-air training?
“Very good! It allows off bore targeting and that coupled with TVC gives a good angular advantage to the Su-30 in combat!”

LOT OF QUESTIONS ANSWERED CLEARING LOT OF DOUBTS (IF SOMEONE HAVE IN MIND.... SPECIALLY AFTER RECENT EVENTS POST F16 VS MIG 21 AIR BATTLE)

Source : http://defencenews.in/article/M2000...0MKI--IAF-Sukhoi-Su-30-‘Flanker’-Pilot-585973

God knows what this 'Royal Merciless ' monster was doing on 27th Feb

 

[vishwaprasad]

According to French source, Rafale for #IAF RB 001 conducts the first flight Taken 17 July Bordeaux / Mérignac Airport Courtesy on pic

Can someone inform if this was flown by French pilots or Indian pilots?

 

[aghamarshana]

200 #Rafale coming.
Deal almost finalized with Govt of #France .
Chota Bhai out.
DRAL will become DAIL( Dassault aviation India limited) with GOI as 50% partner . Firm will be independent of @HALHQBLR .
Dassault will help with GHATAK & AMCA.
Wait & watch!

That's some real good news fellas!

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

God knows what this 'Royal Merciless ' monster was doing on 27th Feb

Dodging amraams effortlessly,while ef shola was taking it up the ass from 50 yr buddha mig.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

200 #Rafale coming.
Deal almost finalized with Govt of #France .
Chota Bhai out.
DRAL will become DAIL( Dassault aviation India limited) with GOI as 50% partner . Firm will be independent of @HALHQBLR .
Dassault will help with GHATAK & AMCA.
Wait & watch!

That's some real good news fellas!

Pure speculation until now.200 rafales lol 114+57+36?
Paisa baap dega kya?

 

[Assassin 2.0]

200 #Rafale coming.
Deal almost finalized with Govt of #France .
Chota Bhai out.
DRAL will become DAIL( Dassault aviation India limited) with GOI as 50% partner . Firm will be independent of @HALHQBLR .
Dassault will help with GHATAK & AMCA.
Wait & watch!

That's some real good news fellas!

I will die from happiness if this is true. Iskle muh m ghee shakar.

 

[aghamarshana]

Pure speculation until now.200 rafales lol 114+57+36?
Paisa baap dega kya?

@bengalraider is accurate most of the time. Let's wish it is true.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Can someone inform if this was flown by French pilots or Indian pilots?

All Paki ******s are born as premium dick washers of Chinks and Muricans. Unfortunately those Abduls are the Sand ******s of the world, hated and scorned by their own misdeeds.

Here's the Abduls in action.

Spoiler: Chinks and Muricans being serviced by Pakis

 

[Longewala]

Pure speculation until now.200 rafales lol 114+57+36?
Paisa baap dega kya?

That dies sound a bit like typical def.pk fighter acquisition talk - "we want 100 Eurofighter, 200 J-10, some J131 to go with that, a few hundred f-16..."

Would be happy if order at least two more squadrons, and stick with Rafale-m for the Navy 57.

 

[Longewala]

Someone suggested that includes initial 36.
That plus 57 navy, makes some sense.
Because the remaining 114 would be mmrca 2.
So given delivery times, that would be only delivered by day 2030 (I am guessing here) so assuming staggered payment till2035, we will have to pay for 12 jets per year, roughly 2-2.5 bn per annnum which is manageable really.

 

[Frontrunner]

Someone suggested that includes initial 36.
That plus 57 navy, makes some sense.
Because the remaining 114 would be mmrca 2.
So given delivery times, that would be only delivered by day 2030 (I am guessing here) so assuming staggered payment till2035, we will have to pay for 12 jets per year, roughly 2-2.5 bn per annnum which is manageable really.

Yeah but major hurdel in mmrca 2.0 is rafale being selected as L1... Remember indian airforce this time requires numbers i.e 114.. as it's sqaundron strength is getting alarmingly low.. nd to begin with mmrca 2.0..originally it was conceived as a single engine fighter competition with gripen nd f-16 block 70 in duel.. however it was later changed to multivander procurement...
NOW if say rafale, f-21 nd gripen E has the most viable chance to win this competition.. then the aircraft with lowest cost will be termed as L1 nd will be chosen...thus for L1 category gripen E nd f-21 has more chance then rafale.. cost being cheaper...
This whole concept of L1 is flawed nd horrendous.. better would be to go for govt to govt deal something like of FMS category..

 

[Shakti Malik]

What's possibility of this being true ??


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Anathema]

Absolute junk tweet. Why give air to this nonsense. It doesnt make sense onlot of accounts - Money, philosphy , geopolitical realities and others.
Best if to ignore this. I will be very happy if we acquire 2-3 squadrons of Raffy on top of 36.

 

[aarav]

What's possibility of this being true ??


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

He is adding all the 114 &57 naval jets + current 36 orders & if 57 naval rafale are confirmed then IAC 2 is also confirmed ,all this adds upto atleast $40 billion ,and IAF refusing HAL for 72 more Su30s if all this add up this does have some weight remember modi signed the deal for 36 rafales in 2016 when all were speculting that rafale are out of the game and american planes would be signed ,so anything is possible ,200 rafales surely will even make china ponder

 

[IndianHawk]

He is adding all the 114 &57 naval jets + current 36 orders & if 57 naval rafale are confirmed then IAC 2 is also confirmed ,all this adds upto atleast $40 billion ,and IAF refusing HAL for 72 more Su30s if all this add up this does have some weight remember modi signed the deal for 36 rafales in 2016 when all were speculting that rafale are out of the game and american planes would be signed ,so anything is possible ,200 rafales surely will even make china ponder

200 rafale will cost nothing short of 30 billion USD. This is madness. We should buy 36 more for 7-8 billion USD and spend rest 20 billion USD on mwf and AMCA.

20 billion USD can do wonders for mwf and amca which are the true future of Indian aviation.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[aarav]

200 rafale will cost nothing short of 30 billion USD. This is madness. We should buy 36 more for 7-8 billion USD and spend rest 20 billion USD on mwf and AMCA.

20 billion USD can do wonders for mwf and amca which are the true future of Indian aviation.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

I think IAF has pushed govt for this as squadron level will come down to 25 in next few years and there is a growing fear of loosing the conventional edge even to pakistan,these rafales would see service till atleast 2050 ,it is large money at play but you have to do what you have to do ,mwf and amca is good programme but you need numbers fast and you need conventional superiority and rafales provides both but it is still a speculation , a lot of things would be cleared when Modi goes to G7 in France.

 

[uoftotaku]

Whatever has to happen must happen quickly. A decision has to be made instead if the constant waffling and circus going on since 2001.

We simply cannot keep accepting the status quo that our most important front line airbases have 50 yr old MiG-21s and S-125 SAM batteries to defend the most volatile border in the world

Something has to move

For Gods sake they still haven't bothered to build a single HAS capable of housing an SU-30 anywhere along the western or northern front. What kind of leadership is handling affairs at Air HQ one wonders