Kaveri Engine

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,016
Likes
2,314
Country flag
We get raw material from Russia as part of licence royalty payment. The raw material is such that it is unprocessed and can be purchased from Africa, India etc too. Bit contract requirement is that india import them.
Another fanboy story. Modern jet engine includes more than 10,000 parts/components, requires thousands of processed materials. These material alone requires the cooperation of thousands of factories in different industries. Each material represents the be technology of these factories. The only way India can do this is by purchasing the whole Russian industry. Even if India can afford the price and Russia is willing to sell, you won't be able to finish it in 20 years.
 

Advaidhya Tiwari

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Messages
1,579
Likes
1,443
Another fanboy story. Modern jet engine includes more than 10,000 parts/components, requires thousands of processed materials. These material alone requires the cooperation of thousands of factories in different industries. Each material represents the be technology of these factories. The only way India can do this is by purchasing the whole Russian industry. Even if India can afford the price and Russia is willing to sell, you won't be able to finish it in 20 years.
The 10000parts are mostly wires, connector, nuts, bolts and many repetitive parts. So, there may be about 100 technology involved at best while the rest being minor adjustments or repetition.

India is not a country with deranged crazies who don't have learning capabilities. India has great minds who are capable of making things as needed. India has made lot of parts of the engine, written FADEC and so on for it. Russia only gave some tooling and assistance as to the procedure to make some critical parts but rest were done by India.
 

proud_indian

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
501
Likes
1,344
Country flag
The 10000parts are mostly wires, connector, nuts, bolts and many repetitive parts. So, there may be about 100 technology involved at best while the rest being minor adjustments or repetition.
you must have some document or link that backs up your claims!
 

Advaidhya Tiwari

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Messages
1,579
Likes
1,443
you must have some document or link that backs up your claims!
I have been extemextr irritated that I have to answer the same question for over a year. I have posted 100-200 comments on this forum itself about the Al31F engine.

I am not in any mood to give any links. Just search it up on google about requisite technology and the research papers of India on that. Giving links will require extensive work and I am tired of it
 

proud_indian

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
501
Likes
1,344
Country flag
I have been extemextr irritated that I have to answer the same question for over a year. I have posted 100-200 comments on this forum itself about the Al31F engine.

I am not in any mood to give any links. Just search it up on google about requisite technology and the research papers of India on that. Giving links will require extensive work and I am tired of it
People are supposed to ask questions when you make such absurd claims without backing them up with proper official sources as you were making claims regarding Kaveri engine would power LCA.

You are welcome to live in your own la-la land but don't expect others to do the same.

regards
 

Advaidhya Tiwari

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Messages
1,579
Likes
1,443
People are supposed to ask questions when you make such absurd claims without backing them up with proper official sources as you were making claims regarding Kaveri engine would power LCA.

You are welcome to live in your own la-la land but don't expect others to do the same.

regards
I have answered the question with siffisuffi proofs that Al31F is made in HAL. Raw material is by definition, mining department and hence you questioning about Raw material is stupid. Repeat with me - 'HAL is not a mining company'.

Your problem is that you don't have any proof watsoever and yet insist that India doesn't have manufacturing capabilities.

I can't help if you believe that earth if flat as I am not capable of giving you any direct proof. The proofs one can give can also be indirect and one has to accept them too as long as they are consistent.

It should be obvious to you that LCA MK2 (MWF) & AMCA will be powered by same engine. As I have always maintained, LCA mk1 is only stop-gap arrangement and will not play a major role in future. It appears that India wants to go with 110kN engine for AMCA & MWF rather than uprated Kaveri having 61/95kN thrust. Regardless, the usage of F414 is simply a joke. F414 is only for initial testing and development only. F414 doesn't suite AMCA or MWF due to Indian intent of increasing their size and F414 being imported engine.

You can live in mental hospital and imagine anything you want but reality is bas3d on results or path that yields results
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,567
Likes
9,357
HTFE-25 can probably be tweeked to produce upto say 30KN but not 35KN-40KN!

It's a pity that HAL has such poor strategic planning!
HAL at this time is not in the market of UAVs/BizJets, but spent so many years to develop an engine for those applications!
HAL itself manufactured Jaguars & knows full well that the engines need replacement/upgrade soon. YET, it didn't plan to create the 40KN turbofan that it had a CAPTIVE MARKET for - for 200 engines easily!!
I take back my words.
It appears that HTFE25 is actually 25KN dry thrust (same as Honeywell's F125 possible replacement engine), the upgrade is to add an afterburner to give it a peak thrust of 40KN (again the same as Honeywell's F125 possible replacement engine).

So, I give kudos to HAL for aligning their trainer jet & biz jet engine ambitions with that of Jaguar upgrade engine!!

D0MkRW1X4AABsid.jpg
 

Filtercoffee

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
615
Likes
214
Country flag
I take back my words.
It appears that HTFE25 is actually 25KN dry thrust (same as Honeywell's F125 possible replacement engine), the upgrade is to add an afterburner to give it a peak thrust of 40KN (again the same as Honeywell's F125 possible replacement engine).

So, I give kudos to HAL for aligning their trainer jet & biz jet engine ambitions with that of Jaguar upgrade engine!!

View attachment 32529
Bring back the HF - 24 with this engine or the GTX 35VS in hopes of becoming a supersonic fighter/bomber.
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,209
Likes
26,000
Country flag
Bring back the HF - 24 with this engine or the GTX 35VS in hopes of becoming a supersonic fighter/bomber.
That's a way to old design. That'd be like bringing back Hawker Hunter!
390ee6863bd1ca291b7c556d5348efe2.png

We already got supersonic strike-fighters covered... Mirage, Tejas mk1/A/2, Rafale, AMCA.

This role/payload is something where we don't really have anything right now... We could use a semi-srategic, stealth bomber.
CANBERRA_ON_GROUND_-_Indian_Air_Force.jpg
 
Last edited:

Filtercoffee

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
615
Likes
214
Country flag
That's a way to old design. That'd be like bringing back Hawker Hunter!
View attachment 32909
We already got supersonic strike-fighters covered... Mirage, Tejas mk1/A/2, Rafale, AMCA.

This role/payload is something where we don't really have anything right now... We could use a semi-srategic, stealth bomber.
View attachment 32912
F - 102 was made in the 50s. If you observe the mirage and other delta winged aircraft, they are the same, same architecture but the designers were tuning the design through time. You might think of how old their designs, similar to the F - 102 are.

All I was saying was the Indian air force could bring back the airframe from storage and have it tuned to current tech, which by the way is a very good design. Carbon composites can be used for wings, ailerons and tail redesigned if needed, to better flight characteristics with a full glass cockpit with a new F - 22 like 360*, without visual obstruction canopy bubble, an AESA radar, old quad guns removed to make way for a mid - air retractable fuel probe, OBOGS, electronics with a current E W suite and a GSH - 23 auto cannon. Basically if you remove old internals, the designer can then have space enough for newer current internals.

Even 2 squadrons done like mentioned is enough to satisfy the fact of it being a supersonic design without and now with an after burning turbo jet, if installed replacing the Bristol Siddeley Orpheus which has a max thrust of 5000 lbs/22 KN only, without an after burner and as an imported not upgradeable engine. They have done it to all legacy aircraft some of which we have and are dependant on external policies ruling the flight rooster; here designers at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited and the Indian Air Force have everything in their control.

Tejas came after the Marut was flown in two wars as a ground attack aircraft, originally intended as a fighter bomber (may I dare say an omni role air frame?). The control surfaces are not very good to make it a real fighter but if up rated and redesigned, the supersonic fact can become true for everyone to know and finally see to feel glad for the old crews, that really had their hands full.

I think It sits well with the Marut pilots that flew during the tenure of the aircraft. An example to this thought was the F - 15 being upgraded as seen in the attached image.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Kay

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
1,029
Likes
1,354
Country flag
Here is another opinion regarding Kaveri engine and looks good, king is dead long live the king
In light of these tweets, I take back whatever criticism I made of the retired air force pilot.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top