Kaveri Engine

[Kchontha]

F404 is 154 inches long. Isn't kaveri K9 the same size? Why would they want to lower the size unnecessarily? Isn't reverse engineering of F404/F414 more safer option?

Reverse engineering a jet engine is not possible because it involves technologically very complex metallurgical engineering skills such as single crystal turbine blades casting technique. The general arrangement of the Kaveri is very similar to other contemporary like EJ200, F414 and M88.

 

[Vijyes]

Reverse engineering a jet engine is not possible because it involves technologically very complex metallurgical engineering skills such as single crystal turbine blades casting technique. The general arrangement of the Kaveri is very similar to other contemporary like EJ200, F414 and M88.

I have repeated this many times - 80% of technology and modelling can be reverse engineered. Rest 20% is complicated technology which needs to be done from scratch. The problem of lack of modelling, size, angles etc can be solved with reverse engineering. The alloy and other 'novel' processes have to be done by R&D.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Probably in much advance designs, but the main concern and always was is the material..

Hi. Can you give link or post full article? What is the date of article?

A tender was issued by GTRE for Company willing to manufacture 20 Kaveri engines producing 90kn, few months back. I wonder what happened to it.

Also there tenders in circulation for components of a different engine having higher bypass ratio compared to Kaveri and thrust of max 115kn also. So GTRE seems to be pursuing two different engines for now.

 

[rudresh]

I have repeated this many times - 80% of technology and modelling can be reverse engineered. Rest 20% is complicated technology which needs to be done from scratch. The problem of lack of modelling, size, angles etc can be solved with reverse engineering. The alloy and other 'novel' processes have to be done by R&D.

It is lot more complex than that 20% I will explain u how. Now u get a new material which can withstand a slightly higher temperature than the previous metal alloy.

Then u will substitute that material in the inner core now your core will be 1-3%efficient. The efficiency increases from stage to next stage at the final stage gets a hike in efficiency of 5-8%.

But u cannot put the part made with that alloy to core because the alloy may not tolerate the pressure or temperature at the last stage as it will exceed it's threshold.

NOW THE CORE IS FINE BUT THE LAST STAGE WILL MELT DUE TO EXCESSIVE HEAT.

Your next step is to put that alloy to the last stage with out putting it to the core but now ur core efficiency is same but thrust may simply increase by 0.5% - 1% which may not be remarkable but it is still a progress.

Now u decide to put that new alloy to the core then in order to not melt your final stage u have to increase inlet diameter. SUDDENLY YOUR EFFICIENCY OF THE CORE DECREASES ON THE OTHER HAND YOUR CORE AND FINAL STAGE IS SAFE. IT INCREASES THE ENGINE WEIGHT AS YOUR ENGINE INLET HAS INCREASED.
Now again a lot of changes are required such as combustion, blade vibration and core itself.
In the whole saga I have never told anything thing about time for testing this....and I have tried to explain very basic things that creates havoc.

Imagine that with just 20-30 parameters which cause effect that multiplies.

The engine is really a SON OF A BITCH to be precise..... It takes a lot of time and testing.

Engines are the only things that cannot be easily modified......

 

[rudresh]

Our kaveri engine had a bypass ratio of 0.18 long time back but now it has more than 0.22 previously it was giving 76 kn wet now it is more than 81 kn. The saga will continue but reliability is a must when inside a plane and hence has to be tested.... After that only it will get moksha till then trishanku only....

Kaveri is our basic and solid foundation for the future engines better late than sorry..... Whatever may be the thrust, put it into the plane and test it, get a reliable engine........ Later we can play.

It is not for just IAF (should be in no way curtailed due thrust parameters) it is for the whole country itself.

 

[Kchontha]

I have repeated this many times - 80% of technology and modelling can be reverse engineered. Rest 20% is complicated technology which needs to be done from scratch. The problem of lack of modelling, size, angles etc can be solved with reverse engineering. The alloy and other 'novel' processes have to be done by R&D.

All the problems pertaining to modelling, size, angles of a turbofan engine designing are simple engineering issues that can be solved very easily by applying basic physics and applied mathematics not by reverse engineering which is practiced by intellectually insincere persons or countries.

 

[rudresh]

All the problems pertaining to modelling, size, angles of a turbofan engine designing are simple engineering issues that can be solved very easily by applying basic physics and applied mathematics not by reverse engineering which is practiced by intellectually insincere persons or countries.

If it was so then why the copy masters of the world can replicate GE-414 or AL-31

 

[Screambowl]

F404 is 154 inches long. Isn't kaveri K9 the same size? Why would they want to lower the size unnecessarily?

to make it small and light and more efficient
.........................................................................

 

[VIP]

Its not specified for which series of prototypes, but its probably K10 series ..

SNECMA is the one in the project ..

If timeframe is for K10 then we are actually on fast track here

 

[no smoking]

All the problems pertaining to modelling, size, angles of a turbofan engine designing are simple engineering issues that can be solved very easily by applying basic physics and applied mathematics not by reverse engineering which is practiced by intellectually insincere persons or countries.

Tell this to Americans and Russians of last 50s and 60s, it took them 20 years to figure out these "basic physics and applied mathematics" to make their jet engines tech finally on par with British, EVEN WITH BRITISH HELP;
Tell this to Japanese who failed to apply these "basic physics and applied mathematics" until today;
Tell this to Chinese whose "basic physics and applied mathematics" is still questionable even after 20 years effort;
Most importantly, please tell this to your Indian scientists who are expecting foreigners to sort out these "basic physics and applied mathematics" for them.

 

[Kchontha]

Tell this to Americans and Russians of last 50s and 60s, it took them 20 years to figure out these "basic physics and applied mathematics" to make their jet engines tech finally on par with British, EVEN WITH BRITISH HELP;
Tell this to Japanese who failed to apply these "basic physics and applied mathematics" until today;
Tell this to Chinese whose "basic physics and applied mathematics" is still questionable even after 20 years effort;
Most importantly, please tell this to your Indian scientists who are expecting foreigners to sort out these "basic physics and applied mathematics" for them.

Manufecturing and developing a military Jet engine involves high end metallurgy (such as single crysyal blade casting technology) along with other engineering skills. The latter "know how" i.e. engine modelling, shaping, angles and curving etc etc are easily available and not so secretive knowledge and skills involving basic physics and mathematics etc. That is why gtre with no previous experience of producing any military jet engine had attempted a turbofan like kaveri. However the former is secretive and well guarded high end technology involving complex metallurgy. That is where not only the Indian scientists but also the Chinese are struggling with their turbofan engine. Even the Russians are struggling with their izdelie30 which is the definitive powerplant for su57. Because of all these factors all the western countries collaborate each other pertaining to jet engine techs; American had collaborated with the British; French had collaborated with the American, even the Russian had collaborated with the Russian though it is a civilian one. Indian scientists are no exception. That’s all about intellectual sincerity; not intellectual theft or reverse engineering won't help you in turbofan making and now everybody is willing to help India. Why? Do you know why?

 

[Filtercoffee]

The rolls royce news is mostly fake or made up by some journalists.

rolls royce is not going to get the contract due to pricing and indirect involment by intel in india. Thank god its a fake.

 

[lcafanboy]

Good news: Cross Post from IDF Parikrama

Source confirmed Safranised Kaveri is going to France for advance testing.. the approval for the same is through..... There are some niggles which require testing in France and then the advance testing in a test bed..

The dispatch will happen within next 30 days to France for work to start...

Will share more details when received..

 

[F-14B]

Safranised Kaveri

any pics on the same....................................................................................

 

[lcafanboy]

any pics on the same....................................................................................

It's no more Khangress govt so no pictures and no details come out easily. Only deep insider know s what is happening and parikrama is insider. Most of his information did came true.

 

[Kshithij]

Good news: Cross Post from IDF Parikrama

Source confirmed Safranised Kaveri is going to France for advance testing.. the approval for the same is through..... There are some niggles which require testing in France and then the advance testing in a test bed..

The dispatch will happen within next 30 days to France for work to start...

Will share more details when received..

It's no more Khangress govt so no pictures and no details come out easily. Only deep insider know s what is happening and parikrama is insider. Most of his information did came true.

Last I checked, Parikrama was initially writing in **********. Now, he is writing in IDF. I have some suspicions about him.

 

[no smoking]

Manufecturing and developing a military Jet engine involves high end metallurgy (such as single crysyal blade casting technology) along with other engineering skills. The latter "know how" i.e. engine modelling, shaping, angles and curving etc etc are easily available and not so secretive knowledge and skills involving basic physics and mathematics etc.

Japanese high end metallurgy and other engineering skills are next only to US and British, until today, they still not figuring out those "basic physics and mathematics" yet.

 

[Kshithij]

Japanese high end metallurgy and other engineering skills are next only to US and British, until today, they still not figuring out those "basic physics and mathematics" yet.

Japan is US satellite state. Japanese Constitution is US made. Japan did not try to get Jet engine for 20 years but only trying to get a fighter jet for past 10 years. Japan didn't even have avionics and fly by wire which they had to develop. Japanese haven't even completed their plane, forget engines. Only a technology demonstrator was flown. USA may be meddling there too.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

81kN flight worthy prototype is already available. It is not rocket science to just reverse engineer F404 and make another engine. Some parts may be complicated but 80% can be reverse engineered. In 1978, F404 had made a run with 78kN thrust. We have achieved the same. Now, we are upgrading it to 90kN as US had made it in 1984 and then to 100kN as US made in 1989 as F414. It is a matter of few years time - about 2 years more before 90kN is achieved and 4-5 years before 100kN is achieved.

Kaveri test data is not released officially

Best way is to collaborate with Britain and make something similar to EJ 230 engine. It is a great engine with 73 KG dry and 108 KG afterburner with TVC and weight is contained to 1 Ton. If we make something similar and use it in Tejas, Tejas shall become a super plane unbeatable with an exceptionally high T/W ratio. We can use it in AMCA as well.

 

[patriots]

a good description on kaveri. have a look guys...