Is Russia still our friend? Poll

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Apropos the emboldened part, I disagree.

Just pretend that the USSR did not help India in 1971/72.

So, we have PRC to the north of North East India, and Pakistan to the south. What does that look like?

I could give scores of other examples, such as accepting Rupee payments. That is certainly a favour.

My fears are presented in the emboldened portions in the quote below:

For all practical purpose we were a USSR vassal state and so the favours. NA was just on paper!

 

[pmaitra]

I think Russia and India will remain friends. You both have suspicion towards progress in the west, you both love poor infrastructure and good food. Russians drink more, you love to dance...you are made for each other.

We both love poor infrastructure? Where did you get that from?

 

[pmaitra]

For all practical purpose we were a USSR vassal state and so the favours. NA was just on paper!

No, we were not.

Here are some practical examples:

• Indian soldiers did not have to fight for Russia's wars.
• Indian soil was never used to host permanent Soviet military bases.
• India was not forced to carry out transactions in Roubles.
• The Russian Army or the Soviet Army did not march down the streets of India on India's Independence Day celebrations.

Big difference.

India has always been independent and sovereign.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

No, we were not.

Here are some practical examples:

• Indian soldiers did not have to fight for Russia's wars.
• Indian soil was never used to host permanent Soviet military bases.
• India was not forced to carry out transactions in Roubles.
• The Russian Army or the Soviet Army did not march down the streets of India on India's Independence Day celebrations.

Big difference.

India has always been independent and sovereign.

Could have thousand other explanations!

 

[jouni]

We both love poor infrastructure? Where did you get that from?

Well, I know Russian infrastructure and based on documentaries I have seen, yours looks the same. Cleanliness is not a question of resources, but a question on mentality. For example poor village in Estonia is clean and tidy and poor village in Russia is dirty.

 

[pmaitra]

Could have thousand other explanations!

This thread is to express, analyse, and debate those thousand other explanations.

 

[pmaitra]

Well, I know Russian infrastructure and based on documentaries I have seen, yours looks the same. Cleanliness is not a question of resources, but a question on mentality. For example poor village in Estonia is clean and tidy and poor village in Russia is dirty.

Some of the longest railways are in Russia and India. We both transport massive volumes of goods and passengers over long distances at affordable rates. So much of infrastructure.

Tell me how many countries have better railway infrastructure than India and Russia? Yes, Germany, France, PRC, Japan, Spain, might come up on top. Any other example?

 

[JBH22]

Whatever accomplishments you are quoting are from Soviet era. The boom in Russian economy for the last decade was helped by high oil prices. With the increasing reliance on renewables and other energy sources in the future, it would be difficult for Russia to maintain whatever technology it has right now, forget about building new tech.

As for being vassal or non-vassal state, it has nothing to do with who you align with but a matter of statecraft. Ofcourse, you are free to like whoever you like but good luck to live in a family valued Russia under the new Czar.

Crazy rote from western bollocks. So the country that possess one of the largest gas and hydrocarbon resources should not leverage on the same?

Should I laugh or cry at your statements. Building new rockets, cutting edge 5th Gen planes is it from Soviet Era. Armata is coming out shortly. But then for some people building an IPHONE 6 is an epitome of cutting edge technology.

For all practical purpose we were a USSR vassal state and so the favours. NA was just on paper!

For all practical purposes please check Pakistan to understand the consequence and concept of being Uncle Sam b1tch (aka vassal state)

 

[JBH22]

Russia is not a conservative state as per Indian standards. Russia has a high divorce rate which is comparable to the USA.(about 51 % for Russia compared to 53% for US. India has one of the lowest divorce rates.).
Divorce demography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IMO India should be a part of the NAM. It should cooperate with both US and Russia.

A country that propounded atheism 2 decades back and nowadays the Church there has made a wonderful rebound.

You would see Pink type chaddis movements because the gay propaganda has been banned there. The Government took on some hard steps which may not be even remotely thought here.

 

[jouni]

Some of the longest railways are in Russia and India. We both transport massive volumes of goods and passengers over long distances at affordable rates. So much of infrastructure.

Tell me how many countries have better railway infrastructure than India and Russia? Yes, Germany, France, PRC, Japan, Spain, might come up on top. Any other example?

There is a lot more than railways in Infra. We are not living in the 19th century anymore. If you are a nuclear power and stray dogs in the streets are a danger for your children, or a city of 60000 people have two thirty year old ambulances, something is wrong.

 

[warrior monk]

Just because Russia sold few helicopters and now they are thinking of holding military exercises with Pakistan doesn't make them our enemies . I think Russia helped us with military technologies which no other western countries would would . We should not forget that western countries especially US helped Pakistan in its nuclear program till 1990 and the most potent weapon in Pakistani conventional arsenal is F-16s is of US origin .
We should also remember it was during Reagan's tenure that CIA secretly facilitated Pakistani Nuclear weapons program and how till 2012 US was helping Pakistan in stockpile stewardship ( Better warhead design without actual testing) of its Nuclear weapons .
Even after so much help to Pakistan we are all hugsy with US and Russia sold few helicopters and some military exercise with Pakistan we are all in angst .

The CIA agent who exposed US complicity in helping Pakistan develop a nuclear bomb | US news | The Guardian

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Crazy rote from western bollocks. So the country that possess one of the largest gas and hydrocarbon resources should not leverage on the same?

Should I laugh or cry at your statements. Building new rockets, cutting edge 5th Gen planes is it from Soviet Era. Armata is coming out shortly. But then for some people building an IPHONE 6 is an epitome of cutting edge technology.

I did not say they should not leverage. They should do it as well as they can. But at the end of the day, freedom of enterprise has great value. No surprise US leads in all type of technological breakthroughs.

You may hate your iphone, many other people don't. Now, I cannot argue stupidly and list all innovations here. You are free to look up innovations in space, medicine, IT etc etc. Choose and bet on the country you prefer.

For all practical purposes please check Pakistan to understand the consequence and concept of being Uncle Sam b1tch (aka vassal state)

This is the stupidest argument- look at Pakistan. India was/is not Pakistan and has different geographical location and domestic political compulsion. As if India turned out to be and retained its democracy due to non US intervention. Don't compare apples and oranges.

 

[JBH22]

I did not say they should not leverage. They should do it as well as they can. But at the end of the day, freedom of enterprise has great value. No surprise US leads in all type of technological breakthroughs.

You may hate your iphone, many other people don't. Now, I cannot argue stupidly and list all innovations here. You are free to look up innovations in space, medicine, IT etc etc. Choose and bet on the country you prefer.

Bet is to be on the right side of history. An empire that vandalise and rampages states without any remorse should be kept at arms bay.

India is the bet and not become lackey of Uncle Sam. If people fought to free themselves from western imperialism I do not see any reason to run back to these same things.

This is the stupidest argument- look at Pakistan. India was/is not Pakistan and has different geographical location and domestic political compulsion. As if India turned out to be and retained its democracy due to non US intervention. Don't compare apples and oranges.

Pakistan general Ayub khan went on to say we want to become american friends went and sign so and so pacts. We all know how it ended.

So all this chest thumping about being friends or whatever will lead us to nowhere in the long run.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

No, we were not.

Here are some practical examples:

• Indian soldiers did not have to fight for Russia's wars.
• Indian soil was never used to host permanent Soviet military bases.
• India was not forced to carry out transactions in Roubles.
• The Russian Army or the Soviet Army did not march down the streets of India on India's Independence Day celebrations.

Big difference.

India has always been independent and sovereign.

You have pretty strong views on what constitutes vassal state. We would be a vassal state only if Red army had marched in Delhi.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Bet is to be on the right side of history. An empire that vandalise and rampages states without any remorse should be kept at arms bay.

India is the bet and not become lackey of Uncle Sam. If people fought to free themselves from western imperialism I do not see any reason to run back to these same things.

USSR was such a glowing light in the sky. It not only killed people in eastern europe but its own citizens in much bigger numbers. That says quite a bit about your choice.

Pakistan general Ayub khan went on to say we want to become american friends went and sign so and so pacts. We all know how it ended.

So all this chest thumping about being friends or whatever will lead us to nowhere in the long run.

People giving causal interpretation to one incident. The way you have expressed yourself above only proves Pakistan was more stupid than Uncle Sam was wise.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

@pmaitra

In a way, India exploited the friendship treaty with Moscow more than they could have exploited us. It can also be true due to non-strategic location of India vis-a-vis Soviet international plans else we could have seen any of the above actions you mentioned. But we provided the necessary ego massage to USSR on international forums.

 

[pmaitra]

There is a lot more than railways in Infra. We are not living in the 19th century anymore. If you are a nuclear power and stray dogs in the streets are a danger for your children, or a city of 60000 people have two thirty year old ambulances, something is wrong.

You still have to justify your statement that we like our poor infrastructure.

 

[Zebra]

Rockefellers will be very happy to see this thread.

 

[pmaitra]

You have pretty strong views on what constitutes vassal state. We would be a vassal state only if Red army had marched in Delhi.

I wonder whether you have been following recent events. The US army marched on the streets of Estonia on Estonia's Independence Day. I call it Estonia's Vasssalhood Day.

@pmaitra

In a way, India exploited the friendship treaty with Moscow more than they could have exploited us. It can also be true due to non-strategic location of India vis-a-vis Soviet international plans else we could have seen any of the above actions you mentioned. But we provided the necessary ego massage to USSR on international forums.

India has always sought what is best for its interests.

India sought GE technology from the US for its diesel locomotives, but GE refused. Another US company, ALCO, agreed, and hence, India bought that technology.

India approached the UK for submarines, but they also refused. Thereafter, India went to the Soviets, and they were more than willing to help us in a way no one else would.

Let's look at local assembly of our defence equipment. Did India have a better choice than what the Soviets offered us?

If India were a Soviet vassal, India would have sought exclusively Soviet products. If India were a US vassal, India would have sought exclusively US products. That has not been the case. Post-1947, India has been a vassal to none, and thus should India remain. We just need to stop whining that Russia does not spoon-feed India the way the Soviets did.

I could list a whole bunch of examples.

Rockefellers will be very happy to see this thread.

Rockefellers are no good, but they are no worse than the Rothschilds, the ones who benefited from India's colonization. It is sad some people in this forum still dance to their tune, intentionally or out of ignorance.

 

[Zebra]

Rockefellers are no good, but they are no worse than the Rothschilds, the ones who benefited from India's colonization. It is sad some people in this forum still dance to their tune, intentionally or out of ignorance.

Then why Russians allow them in Russia?

Why they are supporting AAP in India?

Rockefellers are the one who are dying to see India on left side.

And you guys are doing just that what they want. In fact you are helping them.