India-China Relations

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China And India Dangerously Close To Military Conflict: Foreign Media
Since the dispute began, the Chinese Foreign Ministry has issued an angry stream of almost daily denunciations of India and its "illegal trespass" and "recklessness," along with demands that New Delhi withdraw its troops "if it cherishes peace."
© 2017, The Washington Post | Annie Gowen, Simon Denyer, The Washington Post | Updated: Aug 17, 2017 13:50 IST

Indian and Chinese troops have faced off on a plateau in Himalayas in tense proximity. (File)


New Delhi: As nuclear posturing between North Korea and the United States rivets the world, a quieter conflict between India and China is playing out on a remote Himalayan ridge - with stakes just as high.

For the past two months, Indian and Chinese troops have faced off on a plateau in the Himalayas in tense proximity, in a dispute prompted by moves by the Chinese military to build a road into territory claimed by India's close ally, Bhutan.

India has suggested that both sides withdraw, and its foreign minister said in Parliament that the dispute can be resolved only by dialogue.

Yet China has vociferously defended the right it claims to build a road in the Doklam area, land it also claims.

Since the dispute began, the Chinese Foreign Ministry has issued an angry stream of almost daily denunciations of India and its "illegal trespass" and "recklessness," along with demands that New Delhi withdraw its troops "if it cherishes peace."

Incursions and scuffles between the two countries have long occurred along India and China's 2,220-mile border - much of which remains in dispute - although the respective militaries have not fired shots at each other in a half-century.

Analysts say that this most recent dispute is more worrisome because it comes at a time when relations between the two nuclear-armed powers are declining, with China framing the issue as a direct threat to its territorial integrity. For the first time, such a conflict involves a third country - the tiny Himalayan kingdom of Bhutan.

And the potential for dangerous clashes elsewhere on the rugged mountainous border remains real, analysts say. Indian and Chinese patrols jostled each other and exchanged blows Tuesday morning by a lake in the Ladakh region of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, according to local reports.

"It would be very complacent to rule out escalation," said Shashank Joshi, an analyst with the Royal United Services Institute in London. "It's the most serious crisis in India-China relations for 30 years."

The standoff also reflects an expanding geopolitical contest between Asia's most populous nations. As China fortifies islands in the South China Sea and exerts its influence through ambitious infrastructure projects throughout the continent, its dominance of Asian affairs is growing, as is its unwillingness to brook rivals. India is seen by some as the last counterbalance.

"The most significant challenge to India comes from the rise of China, and there is no doubt in my mind that China will seek to narrow India's strategic space by penetrating India's own neighborhood. This is what we see happening," former Indian foreign secretary Shyam Saran said recently at an event in New Delhi.

The incident began in mid-June, when a crew from the People's Liberation Army, the PLA, entered a remote plateau - populated largely by Bhutanese shepherds - with earth-moving and other equipment and "attempted to build a road," India's Ministry of External Affairs said in a statement.

They were confronted by a Royal Bhutan Army patrol; Indian soldiers pitched tents there two days later. India and Bhutan - a country of just under 800,000 - have long had a special relationship that includes military support and $578 million in aid to Bhutan.

India says the road would have moved Chinese troops closer to India's strategically important Siliguri Corridor, known as the Chicken's Neck, the narrow stretch of land that separates India's northeast from the rest of the country.

China asserted that more than 270 Indian border troops, carrying weapons and driving two bulldozers, "flagrantly crossed the boundary" and advanced about 100 yards into Chinese territory.

The roots of the distrust between the two nations go back to India's decision to shelter the Dalai Lama in 1959, when the spiritual leader fled Tibet during an uprising there, and to China's invasion during a brief border war in 1962.

There was a marked deterioration in relations after India signed a nuclear cooperation agreement with the United States in 2005 and ties deepened between the two large democracies.

In 2014, Narendra Modi came into office as the most pro-China Indian prime minister since 1962, wanting not only to emulate China's economic progress, but also to attract Chinese investment, analysts say.

But he found Chinese President Xi Jinping to be an unreliable partner, as China blocked India's application to join the Nuclear Suppliers Group and blocked efforts to declare Pakistani militant Masood Azhar a terrorist at the United Nations.

When China's sweeping Belt and Road development initiative added an economic corridor through parts of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, the tensions rose sharply. Modi snubbed a major summit in Beijing that launched the Belt and Road plan this year.

Meanwhile, India alarmed China by allowing the Dalai Lama to visit an important Buddhist monastery in India's northeastern state of Arunachal Pradesh this year, a region Beijing claims is part of Tibet.

"India has tolerated and supported Tibetan separatists, allowing the Tibetan independence groups to set up an 'exile government' in India," said Long Xingchun, director of the Center for Indian Studies at China West Normal University in Nanchong.

Two months in, a few hundred Chinese and Indian troops remain hunkered down on the plateau - and the threat of violence remains real.

Xu Guangyu, a retired PLA major general, said China has been preparing to evict Indian troops if New Delhi does not back down but hoped that China's objective could be realized without bloodshed.

"We won't be the first to fire. We are very clear about this line, and this shows China's sincerity," he said. "But it's not up to China to decide. Whether there is to be war depends on the Indians. However, if they fire the first shot, they would lose control and the initiative."

India has undertaken a variety of preparedness measures with its eye on Chinese escalation, Joshi said, including advancing the operational alert status of several units by two months, which involves moving two of its mountain divisions toward the region and allowing troops to begin acclimatizing to higher altitudes.

"Clearly, there are a whole set of measures they've taken as discreetly as possible to shield themselves from snap Chinese offenses," Joshi said.
 

gekko

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If China-India war breaks out then central government should use the opportunity to declare all commie parties as national threat and ban them all.:biggrin2:
Is GOI really anti-communist?

The government is working with communist parties in various states. During the Khalistan insurgency the government sent communists to spread their ideology as a counter-ideology to religion. Now they are doing the same with Kashmir. They have sent commies like Rahul Pandita to fill the ideological void.

This is Rahul Pandita in Bastar :



This is Rahul Pandita in Kashmir :



Schrodinger's activist. Anti-India in the jungles and pro-India in the valley.

The central government had also organized a high security entourage of commie parties to Kashmir to try to win over Jihadis.

2017-08-21-07-57-cse.google.com.png
 

Rahul Prakash

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Is GOI really anti-communist?

The government is working with communist parties in various states. During the Khalistan insurgency the government sent communists to spread their ideology as a counter-ideology to religion. Now they are doing the same with Kashmir. They have sent commies like Rahul Pandita to fill the ideological void.

This is Rahul Pandita in Bastar :



This is Rahul Pandita in Kashmir :



Schrodinger's activist. Anti-India in the jungles and pro-India in the valley.

The central government had also organized a high security entourage of commie parties to Kashmir to try to win over Jihadis.

View attachment 19109
Do you think India has a problem with its narrative building.i think so here's how.

When China fights they fight unified with a single common purpose instead of some meaningless democratic value and these value seem to be rooted in people ethnic or racial,country power above all,and belief and glory fication of strength in all forms.

We come from an angle that country that is home cowards such as Gandhi and Buddhists etc who like to morally preach.the only reason we still have a military is because in olden times people had comments sense and kept the military out of a gut instinct inspite of Gandhian philosophy.as for our demographics we have no shield against real foreign migration.if tomorrow we become rich like America many people from across the globe will flock for economic reasons and the cowardly and sellout politicians( you know who) will sellout the natives.now it's only close cousins like Bengalis,nepalisetc.but tomorrow people unrelated to India will start flooding and start bending the political system to their own needs.then India will become a divided prosperous country that will soon return to poverty as the divisions will lead to strife and then those immigrants will callously leave leaving our children at square one.

And I have not talked about the Muslim ideological problem yet.
 

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meh
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Do you think India has a problem with its narrative building.i think so here's how.

When China fights they fight unified with a single common purpose instead of some meaningless democratic value and these value seem to be rooted in people ethnic or racial,country power above all,and belief and glory fication of strength in all forms.

We come from an angle that country that is home cowards such as Gandhi and Buddhists etc who like to morally preach.the only reason we still have a military is because in olden times people had comments sense and kept the military out of a gut instinct inspite of Gandhian philosophy.as for our demographics we have no shield against real foreign migration.if tomorrow we become rich like America many people from across the globe will flock for economic reasons and the cowardly and sellout politicians( you know who) will sellout the natives.now it's only close cousins like Bengalis,nepalisetc.but tomorrow people unrelated to India will start flooding and start bending the political system to their own needs.then India will become a divided prosperous country that will soon return to poverty as the divisions will lead to strife and then those immigrants will callously leave leaving our children at square one.

And I have not talked about the Muslim ideological problem yet.

Why are Buddhists cowards?
.......
 

aditya10r

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Why are Buddhists cowards?
.......
One example from my side:at this year kalchakra some tibetan said we will burn ourselves to make tibet free from ugly commie occupation.

That should answer your question.

Japanese and Vietnamese are different.
 

Razor

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One example from my side:at this year kalchakra some tibetan said we will burn ourselves to make tibet free from ugly commie occupation.

That should answer your question.

Japanese and Vietnamese are different.
No point in burning "ourselves" for making tibet free, mr. han don't play that way; burn some CCP.

Also what about the Japs and Viets?? :hmm:
 

Rahul Prakash

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Why are Buddhists cowards?
.......
Buddhism can easily be interpreted as a non violent religion like following Gandhian ethos.even Jainism is like that.even Christian Jesus is like that but that is not our religion.

My point is most people are stupid,lazy or cowardly.this can be exploited by them to say they don't wanna fight for there country by reinterpreting these religions to suit their needs even if theoretically if you closely these religions might not endorse them.the problem is they look so close as to be same.

It can also be exploited by anti nationals parties and people and our enemies to shut a section of our people from war or any action that is beneficial Tous by saying that" shouldn't you Indians be peaceful like Gandhi why are you acting like a fascist"?.

Remember how useful the Islamic narrative of Islamic superiority and way of the sword as best and the fact that the other religions are worthy of contempt helps our enemies fighting capabilities.

It forces the cowards and lazy people to show their support in favour of fighting and conquering because otherwise you are not in love with Islam and you are not a true muslim.in addition they also have clauses against not following scripture that motivate in ways that I don't need to tell you.

All in all I think India got a shitty deal with Gandhi as we have keep on reaffirming everyone that we are not weak pacifists.sometimes I wish India was an autocracy of some Indian religion or nationalist like sub bose.i think India is in great danger of being all consumed by self hatred and pacifism and you know how Congress will exploit that.
 

Razor

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Japs fought hard and well in ww2 and vietnam repelled 2 superpowers from its territory,both are buddhist countries.

====================================================
In both Vietnam and Japan, and in fact even in China, Buddhism has become somewhat integrated into locals systems, i.e. Taoism, Confucian thought and Shinto. They are not entirely integrated but somewhat integrated. Btw Vietnam is offically communist, like Laos, China, Noko and Cuba, the 5 communist states.

And yup Vietnam is bad-ass, they been fighting them Chins for like millenia. And then took on Amrika too. Respect.
 

Rahul Prakash

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Why are Buddhists cowards?
.......
Remember the point is about narrative .

What are we as a nation.are we just a market place that has no identity.if yes why fight to save something we will never own.

If no then on what basis is our identity based on a group of ethnicities of specific types or only religion of Indian variety.

Further more if answered no is our strategy and narrative we present to the world helping us secure this identity intact and also while protecting us militarily and also making us grow economically.if it is then is there a better solution or if the answer is no why are we still following this narrative.

Personally I want India to recognise itself as a civilization Al country like China comprised of specific ethnicities and home to only our indiginious religions while give places to live for other religion provided they behave.
 

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One example from my side:at this year kalchakra some tibetan said we will burn ourselves to make tibet free from ugly commie occupation.

That should answer your question.

Japanese and Vietnamese are different.
Burning themselves is not cowardice bro, it is just ineffective. Tibetans have kicked some disproportionate ass and will do so again if there is a full fledged conflict between India and China. @Rahul Prakash pointed out the real problem with Buddhism. It is too easy to hide behind its pacifistic nature and actually be a coward as we very well know a lot of Gandhians to be.

Buddhism can easily be interpreted as a non violent religion like following Gandhian ethos.even Jainism is like that.even Christian Jesus is like that but that is not our religion.

My point is most people are stupid,lazy or cowardly.this can be exploited by them to say they don't wanna fight for there country by reinterpreting these religions to suit their needs even if theoretically if you closely these religions might not endorse them.the problem is they look so close as to be same.

It can also be exploited by anti nationals parties and people and our enemies to shut a section of our people from war or any action that is beneficial Tous by saying that" shouldn't you Indians be peaceful like Gandhi why are you acting like a fascist"?.

Remember how useful the Islamic narrative of Islamic superiority and way of the sword as best and the fact that the other religions are worthy of contempt helps our enemies fighting capabilities.

It forces the cowards and lazy people to show their support in favour of fighting and conquering because otherwise you are not in love with Islam and you are not a true muslim.in addition they also have clauses against not following scripture that motivate in ways that I don't need to tell you.

All in all I think India got a shitty deal with Gandhi as we have keep on reaffirming everyone that we are not weak pacifists.sometimes I wish India was an autocracy of some Indian religion or nationalist like sub bose.i think India is in great danger of being all consumed by self hatred and pacifism and you know how Congress will exploit that.
Yes, Islam is much superior as a national ideology in this regard. My own religion, Sikhism I think does a decent job as well.
 

Indian Sniper.001

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We come from an angle that country that is home cowards such as Gandhi and Buddhists etc who like to morally preach
We are also the home to the likes of Sri Rama, Sri Krishna, Samudragupta, Shivaji among others who have wielded the sword to uphold Dharma, to fight the invaders, to protect the innocent. And now we are led by one who follows the similar line shedding the pacifist angle.
 

Rahul Prakash

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Burning themselves is not cowardice bro, it is just ineffective. Tibetans have kicked some disproportionate ass and will do so again if there is a full fledged conflict between India and China. @Rahul Prakash pointed out the real problem with Buddhism. It is too easy to hide behind its pacifistic nature and actually be a coward as we very well know a lot of Gandhians to be.



Yes, Islam is much superior as a national ideology in this regard. My own religion, Sikhism I think does a decent job as well.
Yes Sikhism is good and Hinduism also qualifies this test.in Hinduism however it is a buffet because of polytheism.a nationalist Hindu who is a geopolitical will choose krishna.awarrior may choose shiva or Arjuna or whatever.but an anti national will choose whatever is bad for India at that moment.

I think Hinduism is a good litmus test to your character type like all polytheism like Greek gods etc.

I myself am atheist but I'm trying to learn about Indian religion for civilizational reasons.
 

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meh
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Yes Sikhism is good and Hinduism also qualifies this test.in Hinduism however it is a buffet because of polytheism.a nationalist Hindu who is a geopolitical will choose krishna.awarrior may choose shiva or Arjuna or whatever.but an anti national will choose whatever is bad for India at that moment.

I think Hinduism is a good litmus test to your character type like all polytheism like Greek gods etc.

I myself am atheist but I'm trying to learn about Indian religion for civilizational reasons.
The failure to build a national narrative is the failure of our founding "fathers". Hinduism is not polytheistic but monistic in my opinion. The one thing that unites each and every Indic religion is Dharma and there is a failure to build a narrative around that in favor of secularism and appeasement.
 

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