Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Longewala]

OT but a good read for all those who think that weapons development delays and problems are only an Indian problems:

https://navy-matters.blogspot.com/2019/09/ford-trials-and-propulsion-problems.html

Quote "Trials have become a joke...The first several LPD-17 ships were accepted with many thousands of hours of incomplete work.The early LCS’es were accepted with incomplete compartments. Zumwalt was accepted with none of its combat systems installed.Ford was accepted with major systems inoperable and compartments incomplete" Unquote

They should have offered this to the Indian military.
The same chaps who keep complaining about anything India made, would have happily accepted these for top dollar without any murmur or complaint.

 

[aarav]

So no Barak 8 + MF Star 2248 radar for Delhi class after MLU?

That would be too much investment on older ship,AFAIK brahmos inclined,latest buk naval variant and new electronics & radar system is part of MLU

 

[Suryavanshi]

By 2049 we'll also have 5-6 carriers.

And while we are at it China has 10 to 12 Carriers planned

They have already one in water 2nd almost finished and Third under construction.
They have plan for their own EMAL

As we speak Chinas Dalian Is building 5+ destroyers at once.

LMAO

 

[WolfPack86]

The contract for modernisation of “Air Defence Complex Kashmir and Radar Fregat MAE” on P-15 (Delhi Class) of ships was signed between the Ministry of Defence, India and JSC Rosoboronexport, Russian Federation on September 12, 2019.

 

[ladder]

That would be too much investment on older ship,AFAIK brahmos inclined,latest buk naval variant and new electronics & radar system is part of MLU

So, similar approach can be seen in the future Talwar class MLU. VL-Shtil and Brahmos

 

[nongaddarliberal]

And while we are at it China has 10 to 12 Carriers planned

They have already one in water 2nd almost finished and Third under construction.
They have plan for their own EMAL

As we speak Chinas Dalian Is building 5+ destroyers at once.

LMAO

There's only so much we can achieve with a mere 10 billion dollar naval budget, while they're spending 60-70 billion on their navy. Our naval budget is comparable with Britain and France, who aren't even planning to have more than 30 surface combatants (Destroyers + Frigates). India needs to work towards giving the navy 25% of the defence budget, up from just 15% now.

 

[aarav]

So, similar approach can be seen in the future Talwar class MLU. VL-Shtil and Brahmos

Talwar class already has brahmos VLS

 

[ladder]

Talwar class already has brahmos VLS

Batch I when commissioned didn't have Brahmos fitted. They had Klub. Batch ii had Brahmos since commissioning. I don't know whether batch I already have been retrofitted with Brahmos. I presume that hasn't been done yet. It will be done during MLU.

 

[Bhurki]

Why was INS Ranjit decommissioned before older rajput class destroyers?

 

[aditya10r]

Why was INS Ranjit decommissioned before older rajput class destroyers?

@binayak95

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[binayak95]

Why was INS Ranjit decommissioned before older rajput class destroyers?

Its not just a case of date of commission (age of the ship)

These ships have been in service for 4 decades and more, and in this time, each ship develops character.
Mechanical issues, how often and regularly have they seen service, what sort of upgrades have they seen, what is the hull condition - all of these are factored in.
Ranjit received neither the Barak VLS nor the Brahmos inclined launchers.
She had only 1 twin arm launcher S125 SAMs and 4 AK630s.

(She was outfitted with a dhanush launch pad where the rear S125 launcher used to be)
Thus, with her encroaching age, and lack of upgrades that would have kept her useful in a secondary role, what choice did the IN have?

 

[IndianHawk]

There's only so much we can achieve with a mere 10 billion dollar naval budget, while they're spending 60-70 billion on their navy. Our naval budget is comparable with Britain and France, who aren't even planning to have more than 30 surface combatants (Destroyers + Frigates). India needs to work towards giving the navy 25% of the defence budget, up from just 15% now.

Naval budget will remain less so long we face actual war threats on northern borders.

What is the real naval war threat?

The only way forward is indegination so that we can buy more equipment for less money.
Navy is already ahead on this but still we ordered figrates from Russia and most of naval weaponry and radar systems are also foreign . This needs to Change if we have to maintain a huge navy.

 

[Bhurki]

These ships have been in service for 4 decades and more, and in this time, each ship develops character.

INS Rana is twin sister to INS Ranjit, and is actually older.
Actually even found more accounts for it taking part in exercises
So it isn't like one hull was more stressed than other.
Does that mean INS Rana is next?
Also, there was a team formed to assess the remaining service life of old ships like godavari class and viraat. Can't find it. Does anyone have the link to that report?

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Naval budget will remain less so long we face actual war threats on northern borders.

What is the real naval war threat?

The only way forward is indegination so that we can buy more equipment for less money.
Navy is already ahead on this but still we ordered figrates from Russia and most of naval weaponry and radar systems are also foreign . This needs to Change if we have to maintain a huge navy.

Indigenization is always the first priority. But even with that we won't be able to build the required number of ships without huge increases in budget. Naval budget doesn't necessarily need to remain small. With an expanding economy, we need to get defence budget up to 3% of GDP. And we can push up the naval budget from 15% to 20%. So with a 5 trillion dollar economy, we can have a defence budget of 150 billion USD, and a naval budget of 30 billion. Still doesn't match China, but 30 billion annually will ensure we have supremacy over the Indian ocean, accounting for the fact that China can only bring a fraction of its navy in a war to the Indian ocean.

 

[aditya10r]

Indigenization is always the first priority. But even with that we won't be able to build the required number of ships without huge increases in budget. Naval budget doesn't necessarily need to remain small. With an expanding economy, we need to get defence budget up to 3% of GDP. And we can push up the naval budget from 15% to 20%. So with a 5 trillion dollar economy, we can have a defence budget of 150 billion USD, and a naval budget of 30 billion. Still doesn't match China, but 30 billion annually will ensure we have supremacy over the Indian ocean, accounting for the fact that China can only bring a fraction of its navy in a war to the Indian ocean.

@IndianHawk
We are a maritime nation and there should be no doubt in this regard.
As our economy grows so will our exports and influence in the region.Thanks to our geography in the IOR,no other navy can dominate us.Only having a huge economy won't help,if we are to become a great power then we must have absolute dominance over IOR and ability to project power anywhere on the planet.

As for defence budget,don't expect it to grow much.It has remained stagnant for a long time.

__________________________________________

 

[IndianHawk]

Indigenization is always the first priority. But even with that we won't be able to build the required number of ships without huge increases in budget. Naval budget doesn't necessarily need to remain small. With an expanding economy, we need to get defence budget up to 3% of GDP. And we can push up the naval budget from 15% to 20%. So with a 5 trillion dollar economy, we can have a defence budget of 150 billion USD, and a naval budget of 30 billion. Still doesn't match China, but 30 billion annually will ensure we have supremacy over the Indian ocean, accounting for the fact that China can only bring a fraction of its navy in a war to the Indian ocean.

@IndianHawk
We are a maritime nation and there should be no doubt in this regard.
As our economy grows so will our exports and influence in the region.Thanks to our geography in the IOR,no other navy can dominate us.Only having a huge economy won't help,if we are to become a great power then we must have absolute dominance over IOR and ability to project power anywhere on the planet.

As for defence budget,don't expect it to grow much.It has remained stagnant for a long time.

__________________________________________

All these things are understandable.
Looking at Chinese navy it's not ready for global operations.

Chinese have carriers now but no experience of long distance operations. They don't even have a proper naval fighter. Even our mig29k is far robust then their crashing su33 copy.

Most of their submarine are small and obsolete ssk. Even new ssk don't have to range to operate far from their shores. Only few SSN can come to Indian Ocean but their carries can't provide air cover with shitty j15 ( whatever is the name of crashing machine).

Less is said about the porkistan the better .

Chinese can't break 1st and 2nd island chain as of now. On top of there shortcomings the my have to face first USA navy and Japanese navy and Korean navy all of which have agis defense systems and now f35s with carrier borne f35 upcoming.

Then there are Taiwanese and Vietnam with kilos .

Then in Indian Ocean indian navy + USA navy again. And Chinsse don't have support bases anywhere. Even where they have peacetime visitation there is no guarantee of war time support . ( Sri Lanka won't host Chinese navy in ongoing war against India or USA. ).

Conclusion Chinese are atleast two decades away from breaking island chains controlled by usa and allies. And it might take another decade for them to be significant force in IOC.

In these 25-30 year window Indian navy can be completely indegenios and with a much bigger economy we can then build up mass numbers to take on china.

Govt knows it and so does navy. That is also why navy is getting indegenios faster than other forces because it can wait for Indian system to mature while being in service as there is no immediate war threat. IAF on the other hand needs war ready fighters now so does Indian army .

 

[bhramos]

India and Malaysia are conducting a joint naval military exercise to test inter-operability of their navies in South East Asia and Western Pacific regions.

 

[IndianHawk]

India and Malaysia are conducting a joint naval military exercise to test inter-operability of their navies in South East Asia and Western Pacific regions.

Ummah betrayed the porky again.

 

[Bhurki]

Ummah betrayed the porky again.

Muslim countries to east of india have always been moderate in their approach to allowing religion to dictate their way of life and conduct diplomacy.

 

[bhramos]

Welcoming INS #Tarkash in #Namibia.
#HappyFaces