Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lankan PM

[Ray]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

I have just a one question on a technical issue.

Can one positively indicate in a fluid medium like the waters as to where exactly is the boundary?

Even on land, unless it is defined physical entity, like a river, it is difficult. In fluid waters it is all the more difficult.

 

[HeinzGud]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

thats crime mister to shoot someone in borderless boundary ! you can penalize them or anything else !

What is border less boundary? IMBL is the only legal boundary. There are no no man's lands in Palk strait.

 

[ladder]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

Why not. Besides those fishermen who trespass the IMBL aren't doing it accidentally. They come in fleets of boats. We have repeatedly warned them and they didn't listen.

If you want to violate UNCLOS, then no problem. Be ready to face consequences.

 

[HeinzGud]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

Can one positively indicate in a fluid medium like the waters as to where exactly is the boundary?

I never thought you will slide down to garbage commenting to strengthen your argument.

 

[Ray]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

I never thought you will slide down to garbage commenting to strengthen your argument.

It is garbage to professional municipal garbage scavengers.

I was merely talking about a technical point because the same dilemma I have faced when patrolling the border. Even when there are two landmarks, the imaginary line joining those to landmarks to form the border, was only a matter of perception.

But then since you are the expert, could you educate me how to do so.

 

[HeinzGud]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

If you want to violate UNCLOS, then no problem. Be ready to face consequences.

Territorial waters

Out to 12 nautical miles (22 kilometres; 14 miles) from the baseline, the coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource. Vessels were given the right of innocent passage through any territorial waters, with strategic straits allowing the passage of military craft as transit passage, in that naval vessels are allowed to maintain postures that would be illegal in territorial waters. "Innocent passage" is defined by the convention as passing through waters in an expeditious and continuous manner, which is not "prejudicial to the peace, good order or the security" of the coastal state. Fishing, polluting, weapons practice, and spying are not "innocent", and submarines and other underwater vehicles are required to navigate on the surface and to show their flag. Nations can also temporarily suspend innocent passage in specific areas of their territorial seas, if doing so is essential for the protection of its security.

Archipelagic waters

The convention set the definition of Archipelagic States in Part IV, which also defines how the state can draw its territorial borders. A baseline is drawn between the outermost points of the outermost islands, subject to these points being sufficiently close to one another. All waters inside this baseline are designated Archipelagic Waters. The state has full sovereignty over these waters (like internal waters), but foreign vessels have right of innocent passage through archipelagic waters (like territorial waters).

Contiguous zone

Beyond the 12-nautical-mile (22 km) limit, there is a further 12 nautical miles (22 km) from the territorial sea baseline limit, the contiguous zone, in which a state can continue to enforce laws in four specific areas: customs, taxation, immigration and pollution, if the infringement started within the state's territory or territorial waters, or if this infringement is about to occur within the state's territory or territorial waters.[6] This makes the contiguous zone a hot pursuit area.

United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How can SL violate UNSCLOS?

 

[Ray]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

Archipelagic waters

The convention set the definition of Archipelagic States in Part IV, which also defines how the state can draw its territorial borders. A baseline is drawn between the outermost points of the outermost islands, subject to these points being sufficiently close to one another. All waters inside this baseline are designated Archipelagic Waters. The state has full sovereignty over these waters (like internal waters), but foreign vessels have right of innocent passage through archipelagic waters (like territorial waters).

would this not also apply to India in the Palk Strait region?

I am still to hear from your expert opinion on the 'garbage' issue that on sea, it is difficult to with pinpoint accuracy define the maritime boundary i.e. my contention that you thought was 'garbage'.

 

[HeinzGud]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

It is garbage to professional municipal garbage scavengers.

I was merely talking about a technical point because the same dilemma I have faced when patrolling the border. Even when there are two landmarks, the imaginary line joining those to landmarks to form the border, was only a matter of perception.

But then since you are the expert, could you educate me how to do so.

See this is how the poaching is done by your innocent fisherman. First teach them geography.

 

[HeinzGud]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

would this not also apply to India in the Palk Strait region?

This applies to the Palk Strait region only if the TN fisherman consider it as "Innocent passage".

Innocent passage is a concept in law of the sea which allows for a vessel to pass through the territorial waters of another state subject to certain restrictions. The UN Convention on the Law of the Sea defines innocent passage as:

Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law

 

[Ray]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

See this is how the poaching is done by your innocent fisherman. First teach them geography.

But does that answer that the international waters boundaries are difficult to pinpoint on the high seas?

Your poaching map shows 'poaching' close to the Indian coast. Are you suggesting ALL the waters up to the Indian Coast is that of SL?

Archipelagic waters

The convention set the definition of Archipelagic States in Part IV, which also defines how the state can draw its territorial borders. A baseline is drawn between the outermost points of the outermost islands, subject to these points being sufficiently close to one another. All waters inside this baseline are designated Archipelagic Waters. The state has full sovereignty over these waters (like internal waters), but foreign vessels have right of innocent passage through archipelagic waters (like territorial waters).

Further, does the Archipelago Clause not also apply to India in the Palk Straits?

I am yet to hear your expert opinion as to how maritime boundaries can be clearly pinpointed with total accuracy on the high seas.

 

[HeinzGud]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

But does that answer that the international waters boundaries are difficult to pinpoint on the high seas?

This is not a excuse. IN fishermen should buy GPS systems or any relevant device to stay inside the boarder.

Your poaching map shows 'poaching' close to the Indian coast. Are you suggesting ALL the waters up to the Indian Coast is that of SL?

Yes. That's because it is just 2000 hours. The show is just starting in these times.

See how it looks at 0100 hours.

Further, does the Archipelago Clause not also apply to India in the Palk Straits?

I am yet to hear your expert opinion as to how maritime boundaries can be clearly pinpointed with total accuracy on the high seas.

Use a map? or GPS system.

 

[Ray]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

This is not a excuse. IN fishermen should buy GPS systems or any relevant device to stay inside the boarder.



Yes. That's because it is just 2000 hours. The show is just starting in these times.

See how it looks at 0100 hours.

Use a map? or GPS system.

Ah the GPS.

You rose to the bait.

Check the errors that occur owing to weather fronts, atmospheric delays, positional effects, etc.

Little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Use a Map? Are you Vasco de Gama? Map gives you accurate pinpointing of fine issue of maritime boundary recognition?

Man, you are Mohammed Ali - the Greatest!

I am against poaching be they by Indian, Sri Lankans or anyone. Palk Straits is a different issue. Going beyond to the East of Sri Lankan Coast by Indian fisherman is a sheer no no and they should be prosecuted.

I am also against these nets that trawl the seabed. They do great ecological damage.

 

[Anikastha]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

Some members argue that fisher men should have GPS with them.Its not fair.They are not Govt appointed fishers.They use wooden boats / trawlers.This kind of situation should be discussed with higher authorities.

 

[Anikastha]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

Ah the GPS.

You rose to the bait.

Check the errors that occur owing to weather fronts, atmospheric delays, positional effects, etc.

Little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Use a Map? Are you Vasco de Gama? Map gives you accurate pinpointing of fine issue of maritime boundary recognition?

Man, you are Mohammed Ali - the Greatest!

I am against poaching be they by Indian, Sri Lankans or anyone. Palk Straits is a different issue. Going beyond to the East of Sri Lankan Coast by Indian fisherman is a sheer no no and they should be prosecuted.

He says (in directly ) to bring another LOFC (Line of fisher men control) at IMBL.

 

[Ray]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

In contentious waters, GPS should be mandatory. Or else, it will lead to conflicts that upset relationships.

However, GPS is not failsafe as it is felt. It has it own issues.

The aim should be amicable relationship.

I think the SL PM said such a angered statement in a huff.

We must wait till the blood cools down.

He is new at his job and he should be given some time to realise realpolitik.

 

[Ray]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

He says (in directly ) to bring another LOFC (Line of fisher men control) at IMBL.

How?

I don't quite understand the same.

 

[Anikastha]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

How?

I don't quite understand the same.

I was referring to sri lankan PM

 

[ladder]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How can SL violate UNSCLOS?

Really?

Label surfing? Dear Devil lies in details.

1. The coastal State may adopt laws and regulations, in conformity with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law, relating to innocent passage through the territorial sea, in respect of all or any of the following:
(e) the prevention of infringement of the fisheries laws and regulations of the coastal State;

UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA

Have you read ICCPR which your country has already ratified, including the OP? If not, read, you will get your answer.

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Your PM may be a motor mouth and showing his bravado. But, in reality can't do much to enforce his statement with out violating a couple of treaties.

 

[salute]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

This applies to the Palk Strait region only if the TN fisherman consider it as "Innocent passage".

sri lanka shoot indian fishermen,india shoot bangladeshi everyone will be happy to this.

 

[Tshering22]

Re: Indian fishermen will be shot if they cross border, says Sri Lanka

So what we have to do? If we take any action against Sl , they will kick Lankan tamils .Then Tamil .nadu Cm jayalalitha will bash central govt

TN govt has no control on this centre.

Maybe the last govt but not this one. Technically the Lankans aren't wrong.

A lot of our fishermen go there for a bigger catch which is illegal as per international norms. Historical Tamil sentiments cannot be a pre-text to disrespect the current international laws.

When we strongly protest against illegal Bangladeshis, we must have the honour to disallow this as well.

Those political parties in TN that incite the local fishermen to go and get trapped with SL so that they can play politics with the centre should be interrogated, arrested and charged for act of endangering the citizens of India.

For this, Tamil Nadu's people must raise awareness and take initiative to help the fishermen of the country not cross into international waters.

What Ranil Wickramasinghe said was just a statement that India didn't have the balls to tell Bangladeshi Miyas due to a disease called Secularism.

As the PM of Sri Lanka, he has the right to protect his national interests.

It is upto us to teach, educate and make our fishermen aware not to cross onto the other side, just because there are SL Tamils living there and have a common language.