IMF projections for BRIC nominal GDP (2015-2019)

[CrYsIs]

@CrYsIs , I am yet to receive an explanation that how come Nairobians are richer than the people in Prague?

Just because the cost of living in a city is high does not mean that people inhabiting there are richer with higher standards of living.

Compare Harare to Delhi.Cost of almost everything in Harare is higher than in Delhi including rent prices and groceries but beyond the reach of the overwhelming majority.

Similarly prices of everything in Angola's capital Luanda is higher than in Newyork but the former is a poor place filled with slums where as the later is a world class city.

 

[badguy2000]

@CrYsIs , I am yet to receive an explanation that how come Nairobians are richer than the people in Prague?

@badguy2000 , But I thought the real mark was the production and consumption of steel and cement.

Also you haven't answered my query about the steel, cement, automobile production of Switzerland or Monaco.

Again, shall we compare them with China?

1.service sector such as coniso or bank can make some countries like Switzerland/ Monaco rich/S.Arab ,but can not make them mighty .

the scale of manufacturing/farming/mining/construction is the base of economy/military might.
that is why CHina/Russia can set up/maintain a much more powerful military force than Switzerland/ Monaco/S.Arab.

only the countries with mighty manufacturing/decent R&D can be major powers.
the countries without decent manufacturing/farming/minning/construction is destined to be boneless client-states which have to depend on major powers.

2.to measure real life quality, per capita GDP/PPP is not more persuasive than per capita sale of manufacturing/farming/mining/construction;

For example, per capita non-industry electricity consumption in Switzerland is 2280KWH,about 20 times of India's and 5 times of China's,but it is only 50% of of USA's.

considering that almost all modern house appliance can not be run without electricity, it means that USA can afford enjoying convinence of modern machines/appliances more easily than people in Switzerland. that is almos to say, Yankees enjoy a higher life quality than people in Switzerland

does it subverts the usual impression that Switzerland people are richer than yankees???

2. per capita non-industry electricity consumption exactly shows people's real life quality.
http://www.cwestc.com/newshtml/2014-10-16/348625.shtml
the above link show the rank of world per capita non-industry electricity consumption.
in almost all hign-income economies, their per capita non-industry electricity consumption is 1000+ KWH. for example, that of USA is 4000+ KWH and that of Italy is 1153 KWH.

in almost all mid-income economies ,their per capita non-industry electricity consumption is 400-1000 KWH. for example, that of Russia is 900 KWH and that of CHina is 417 KWH.

In almost all low-income economies ,their per capita non-industry electricity consumption is less than 400 KWH. for example, that of india is is only 137 KWH

 

[blueblood]

Just because the cost of living in a city is high does not mean that people inhabiting there are richer with higher standards of living.

Compare Harare to Delhi.Cost of almost everything in Harare is higher than in Delhi including rent prices and groceries but beyond the reach of the overwhelming majority.

Similarly prices of everything in Angola's capital Luanda is higher than in Newyork but the former is a poor place filled with slums where as the later is a world class city.

Your said this;

And India's position of being the cheapest place is nothing to celebrate about,it just goes on to show how poor the country really is.

I gave you the example of Zimbabwe. You told me this;

The countries you mentioned are an exception and not the norm.

Then I gave you examples which are "norm" i.e.

People in Shanghai are richer than than the ones in Berlin, Ottawa, Vienna and many more.

I have proven that cheaper doesn't necessarily translate to poor but to no avail. Your hypocrisy and cherry picking knows no bounds, does it. So you posted this;

Just because the cost of living in a city is high does not mean that people inhabiting there are richer with higher standards of living

So lets see what your Bible actually says.

Cheaper = poor (which I proved false with a source unlike your foul smelling flatulence)

But according to you vice-versa is also true, so;

Expensive ≠ rich

So, lets see since India is poor it is cheaper but had it been expensive it would still be poor. What a fun guy you are.

Pardon my French but my BS meter is pointing North towards you.

@Rowdy , @pmaitra , @sob , Is there any cure for irrationality, self hating, inferiority complex and insecurity? If yes, then please help this friend of ours. He desperately needs some.

 

[blueblood]

1.service sector such as coniso or bank can make some countries like Switzerland/ Monaco rich/S.Arab ,but can not make them mighty .

So let's see service sector is bad but only if you say so. Some of nations with highest per capita in the world are there because of "unhelpful" service sector and have a far higher standard of living than China will probably ever achieve.

the scale of manufacturing/farming/mining/construction is the base of economy/military might.
that is why CHina/Russia can set up/maintain a much more powerful military force than Switzerland/ Monaco/S.Arab.

There was no mention of military prowess in the entire thread.

Digressing from the topic to score Brownie points I see, good going.

only the countries with mighty manufacturing/decent R&D can be major powers.
the countries without decent manufacturing/farming/minning/construction is destined to be boneless client-states which have to depend on major powers.

Ahh, China strong and rest are client states, again good going.

2.to measure real life quality, per capita GDP/PPP is not more persuasive than per capita sale of manufacturing/farming/mining/construction;

For example, per capita non-industry electricity consumption in Switzerland is 2280KWH,about 20 times of India's and 5 times of China's,but it is only 50% of of USA's.

But Switzerland's per capita sale of manufacturing/farming/mining/construction is less than China.

Then how come they are consuming more electricity than the mighty China.

According to your logic with lesser number of mining and construction, Switzerland should be well below the mining capital and construction capital of the world.

Now I am feeling sorry for Swiss. Such deluded people who think they are living finest lives there is to live.

considering that almost all modern house appliance can not be run without electricity, it means that USA can afford enjoying convinence of modern machines/appliances more easily than people in Switzerland. that is almos to say, Yankees enjoy a higher life quality than people in Switzerland

IS there any end to your delusions?

does it subverts the usual impression that Switzerland people are richer than yankees???

You tell me.

Going by your logic of per capita electricity consumption is directly proportional to prosperity, Trinidad and Tobago is more prosperous than Germany.

And Bermuda is more prosperous than Singapore.

Since you are a valued member of this forum, I suggest you stop hanging with Martian. He is giving you cooties of delusions and irrationality.

 

[blueblood]

@badguy2000 , there are plenty of members living in US. How about we ask them about the difference in quality of life between US and Switzerland?

From healthcare to social security, from economic freedom to civic rights.

To be fair to you, lets exclude crime from that criteria.

 

[Compersion]

Cuba has got a wonderful health care system and subject to many international studies

North Korea in pictures looks like paradise to some

Declaring bankruptcy does not mean poverty ...

 

[jouni]

What happened to Russia? I thought they were 2 trillion economy? @pmaitra?

Russia smaller than Spain and Mexico? What kind of superpower is that? Oh, my heart bleeds.....

 

[pmaitra]

What happened to Russia? I thought they were 2 trillion economy? @pmaitra?

Russia smaller than Spain and Mexico? What kind of superpower is that? Oh, my heart bleeds.....

What happened to Russia? Nothing. Russia is a net creditor nation. So, repeated harping on Russia's credit rating is moot.

Russia is piling up on its gold reserves, but it is not just Russia. Even PRC is piling up on its own gold reserves. All these metrics involving the US Dollar is gradually going to lose relevance.

 

[badguy2000]

So let's see service sector is bad but only if you say so. Some of nations with highest per capita in the world are there because of "unhelpful" service sector and have a far higher standard of living than China will probably ever achieve.



There was no mention of military prowess in the entire thread.

Digressing from the topic to score Brownie points I see, good going.



Ahh, China strong and rest are client states, again good going.



But Switzerland's per capita sale of manufacturing/farming/mining/construction is less than China.

Then how come they are consuming more electricity than the mighty China.

According to your logic with lesser number of mining and construction, Switzerland should be well below the mining capital and construction capital of the world.

Now I am feeling sorry for Swiss. Such deluded people who think they are living finest lives there is to live.



IS there any end to your delusions?

View attachment 5679


You tell me.

Going by your logic of per capita electricity consumption is directly proportional to prosperity, Trinidad and Tobago is more prosperous than Germany.

And Bermuda is more prosperous than Singapore.

Since you are a valued member of this forum, I suggest you stop hanging with Martian. He is giving you cooties of delusions and irrationality.

1.measured by per capita manufacturing value, Swizerland has more devleoped manufacturing sector than CHina.
switzerland has not only bank service,but also decent manufacturing such as watch-manufacring and
advanced bearing.at least,Swizerland is better at gun/cannon manufacturing than india.

2. "per capita non-industry electricty consumption" should exclude industry-purpose one....
" non-industry electricity consumption" is not " electricity consumption"
" total elelctricity consumption" is not "per capital non-industry electricity consumption"


3.per capita non-industry electricity consumption is not perfect one to measure real life quality,,but it is still more persuasive than per capita GDP/PPP.

per capita PPP/GDP distorts truth tooo much

for example,
per capita GDP/PPP tell people that Mexico/Turky/Gabon should have a higher life standard than CHina, because their per catpia GDP is 10000+ USD ,higher than CHina's 7000-8000 USD.
however,Anyone who have been to CHina and the above countries knows that is not truth..

another example,
per capita GDP/PPP tell people that Taiwan should have a higher life standard than coastal mainland CHina,because Taiwanese per capita GDP is 22K USD ,much higher than 10-15 K USD in coastal mainland CHina.

however,anyone who have been to the both areas knows that that is not the truth again. Taiwanese real life quailty is not better than coastal CHina .

a 3rd example,
per capita GDP/PPP tell people that Ukrain should have a life quality similar to India,because per capita GDP in India and Ukrain is about 10-25 K USD .
however,Anyone who have been to Ukrain and India knows that is not truth..


In a word,

almost all PRC tourists who have traveled abroad usually feel fooled by medias ,because almost all medias still tell CHinese that CHinese are poorer than anyone except people in black africa and south Asia.

 

[badguy2000]

What happened to Russia? I thought they were 2 trillion economy? @pmaitra?

Russia smaller than Spain and Mexico? What kind of superpower is that? Oh, my heart bleeds.....

Ruusia has much a more larger manufacturing/mining base than spain and mexico and can smush them as easily as smushing bugs.

 

[CrYsIs]

Your said this;

I have proven that cheaper doesn't necessarily translate to poor but to no avail. Your hypocrisy and cherry picking knows no bounds, does it. So you posted this;

So lets see what your Bible actually says.

Cheaper = poor (which I proved false with a source unlike your foul smelling flatulence)

But according to you vice-versa is also true, so;

Expensive ≠ rich

So, lets see since India is poor it is cheaper but had it been expensive it would still be poor. What a fun guy you are.

That was a nice attempt at encircling me.

cheap prices = poor country and Expensive prices = Rich country are not analogies.

Many poor places are suffering from very high inflation and therefore things there are expensive and many rich countries have goods and services in abundance and therefore things there are cheap(eg oil in Saudi Arabia)

In the case of India, majority of Indians live below sustenance level (almost 90%) and therefore have a very little purchasing power.This compels the government to regulate the market vigorously to keep the prices low.Even the non government corporate entities who sell consumer products are compelled to devise strategies to keep the prices down.Popular methods may include reducing the volume or by reducing safety features and going away with quality control.This is the reason why many items in the country are so cheap.
As the people become richer,they have more disposable incomes and demand better quality products which would increase the costs.

 

[badguy2000]

That was a nice attempt at encircling me.

cheap prices = poor country and Expensive prices = Rich country are not analogies.

Many poor places are suffering from very high inflation and therefore things there are expensive and many rich countries have goods and services in abundance and therefore things there are cheap(eg oil in Saudi Arabia)

In the case of India, majority of Indians live below sustenance level (almost 90%) and therefore have a very little purchasing power.This compels the government to regulate the market vigorously to keep the prices low.Even the non government corporate entities who sell consumer products are compelled to devise strategies to keep the prices down.Popular methods may include reducing the volume or by reducing safety features and going away with quality control.This is the reason why many items in the country are so cheap.
As the people become richer,they have more disposable incomes and demand better quality products which would increase the costs.

Your said this;



I gave you the example of Zimbabwe. You told me this;



Then I gave you examples which are "norm" i.e.



I have proven that cheaper doesn't necessarily translate to poor but to no avail. Your hypocrisy and cherry picking knows no bounds, does it. So you posted this;



So lets see what your Bible actually says.

Cheaper = poor (which I proved false with a source unlike your foul smelling flatulence)

But according to you vice-versa is also true, so;

Expensive ≠ rich

So, lets see since India is poor it is cheaper but had it been expensive it would still be poor. What a fun guy you are.

Pardon my French but my BS meter is pointing North towards you.

@Rowdy , @pmaitra , @sob , Is there any cure for irrationality, self hating, inferiority complex and insecurity? If yes, then please help this friend of ours. He desperately needs some.

1. in developing countries like india, not everything is "cheaper"
"labour" there is "cheaper", thus all service sectors run by lots of labours is

while "industry products" are quite expensive.

 

[LalTopi]

I'm case you had not noticed all this China manufacturing is shifting over to India, Vietnam etc.

@pmaitra, @blueblood, TrueSpirit2

Looks like in the time that @badguy2000 was thumping his chest and @CrYsIs and @Martian were being ultra cynics, 1million 'real' jobs have just been shifted across from China to India.

Of course the CPC can for some time yet carry on artificially inflating GDP numbers by paying its workers to manufacture goods that no other country will buy unless artificially subsidized, and the CPC can carry on building roads that go nowhere or build apartment blocks that stay empty. At least it projects power lol and makes India look small and puny.

Taiwan’s Foxconn to invest $5bn in India

Taiwanese electronics maker Foxconn will invest about $5bn over the
next 5 years to build a major manufacturing facility in the western
Indian state of Maharashtra, marking one of the largest foreign direct
investment deals in Indian corporate history.
........
The deal provides the first clear indication of the scale of Foxconn’s
investment plans in India, as the contract maker of Apples’s iPhone
and iPads looks to diversify away from its main Chinese operations.

In July, Foxconn confirmed that it planned to establish as many as a
dozen new manufacturing facilities in India employing up to 1m
workers, as the company grapples with rising wage costs in China,
where it is the largest private sector employer.

News of the size of its plans in Maharashtra — which are also set to
include research and development facilities — will provide a further
boost to Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s “Make in India” campaign to
tempt large-scale labour-intensive manufacturing companies away from
countries in east Asia.

...........

Mr Gou said earlier this week that he plans to make India a global
export hub for electronics at the company, in addition to targeting
India’s fast-growing domestic market.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1661...35da3a90e.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3iKfR8hTL

 

[CrYsIs]

@pmaitra, @blueblood, TrueSpirit2

Looks like in the time that @badguy2000 was thumping his chest and @CrYsIs and @Martian were being ultra cynics, 1million 'real' jobs have just been shifted across from China to India.

Of course the CPC can for some time yet carry on artificially inflating GDP numbers by paying its workers to manufacture goods that no other country will buy unless artificially subsidized, and the CPC can carry on building roads that go nowhere or build apartment blocks that stay empty. At least it projects power lol and makes India look small and puny.



http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1661...35da3a90e.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3iKfR8hTL

Continuing with my so called cynicism,there is a big difference between promising to invest and actual investment.

Let them put the first brick in place and only then we can celebrate.I have seen companies promising an investment worth hundreds of billions of dollars with millions of jobs,in reality they don't even invest even a 10th of that and employ just a handful of people.

Actually not even their fault,investing in India is a huge risk,with the current labour and land laws and general business unfriendly environment with substandard infrastructure,investing in India is a very risky deal.

 

[badguy2000]

@pmaitra, @blueblood, TrueSpirit2

Looks like in the time that @badguy2000 was thumping his chest and @CrYsIs and @Martian were being ultra cynics, 1million 'real' jobs have just been shifted across from China to India.

Of course the CPC can for some time yet carry on artificially inflating GDP numbers by paying its workers to manufacture goods that no other country will buy unless artificially subsidized, and the CPC can carry on building roads that go nowhere or build apartment blocks that stay empty. At least it projects power lol and makes India look small and puny.



http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1661...35da3a90e.html?siteedition=intl#axzz3iKfR8hTL

1.China now is short of blue-collar labour, and labour-density industry like Foxcon is very hard to find enough labour. they have to move out of CHina to somewhere full of cheap labour.

2. Both India and southeast Asia are the condidates of Foxcon-like companies.

3. due to crappy infrastructure and business-unfrendly laws, Southeast Asia is more attactive to Foxcoon-like companies than india.

 

[LalTopi]

Continuing with my so called cynicism,there is a big difference between promising to invest and actual investment.

Let them put the first brick in place and only then we can celebrate.I have seen companies promising an investment worth hundreds of billions of dollars with millions of jobs,in reality they don't even invest even a 10th of that and employ just a handful of people.

Actually not even their fault,investing in India is a huge risk,with the current labour and land laws and general business unfriendly environment with substandard infrastructure,investing in India is a very risky deal.

Nevertheless the trend is there to see of which Foxcon is the biggest example to date.

Nobody is denying that India presents a huge number of barriers to potential investors. Whether or not Modi succeeds in dismantling these barriers will be a defining moment in India (and the World's) history.

 

[LalTopi]

1.China now is short of blue-collar labour, and labour-density industry like Foxcon is very hard to find enough labour. they have to move out of CHina to somewhere full of cheap labour.

2. Both India and southeast Asia are the condidates of Foxcon-like companies.

3. due to crappy infrastructure and business-unfrendly laws, Southeast Asia is more attactive to Foxcoon-like companies than india.

Glad you agree that China's blue collar workers are no longer 'cheap'.
As to a shortage of blue collar workers, well let's see what happens when the borrowed/invented money runs out that is used to prop up the stock market, build apartments that are unlived in and roads that lead nowhere.

 

[badguy2000]

Glad you agree that China's blue collar workers are no longer 'cheap'.
As to a shortage of blue collar workers, well let's see what happens when the borrowed/invented money runs out that is used to prop up the stock market, build apartments that are unlived in and roads that lead nowhere.

You are too young,too simple………you know little about CHINA…………in theory,even if CCP were to write off most invented/borrowed money in theory,banks would simplly acccept it,because almost all banks are owne or controlled by CCP

 

[LalTopi]

You are too young,too simple………you know little about CHINA…………in theory,even if CCP were to write off most invented/borrowed money in theory,banks would simplly acccept it,because almost all banks are owne or controlled by CCP

But not too young or simple not to have heard of Basel 3 and capital adequacy ratios.

In which bank would you park your money @badguy2000 ? in a bank with proven capital reserves to international banking standards or one full of hot air and patriotism? Will the other billion chinese be as patriotic as you or will they all want to withdraw their money? at the same time lol? Do you think that chinese banks full of hot air and patriotism will be accepted as counter parties by International banks?

Think what happened to Lehman, Meryl Lynch, RBS, Lloyds. Think what will happen to chinese banks that will 'simply accept it'.

 

[bose]

Do not keep money in Chinese Banks... all will go with the hot air...