IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Programme New Delhi

[sgarg]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

I think this Tata bid makes a lot of sense.

This is the fastest way of setting up a viable HAL competitor. Airbus delivers first 16 planes (maybe 3-4 years) while Tata sets up a factory. Then Tata produces remaining 40 planes in the next 5-6 years.

These planes are more capable compared to Hs.748 and An-32, so practically replace both. Even An-32 is an old plane now. So Tata can effectively replace both Hs.748 and An-32 and the overall order can run close to 200 planes eventually.

Airbus technology means IAF can trust these aircraft; while Tata's manufacturing means that quality of Airbus will be maintained in the Indian production. This is best of both worlds.

 

[sgarg]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

The next is to see another company (maybe Mahindra) come up to take the light helicopter manufacturing.

The order for ~200 helicopter is a very viable order to set up a factory.
HAL can also make its LUH as the country needs a very large number of light helicopters. The overall need could run close to 1000.

 

[Immanuel]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

C-295 is not the right bird, C-27J is a far better option, bigger, more volume, engines that allow for better performance in high alt regions, longer range and commonality with C-130J.

 

[Ray]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

Tata Airbus is the right option since it will open up the window for commercial aircraft too.

It will lead to Airbus spare manufacture for our commercial Airbus fleet.

Airbus is a tested aviation manufacturer.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

but why and for what purpose we need 6-8 tonne aircraft ?

cant we go for a slightly bigger 10-15-20 tonnes aicraft ?

 

[sgarg]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

@PaliwalWarrior, your point is good. C295 can take 9000kg as per wiki.
I guess a large number of small planes are needed by India due to scattered military bases, factories and ammo depots all over the country. Large planes simplify logistics but India is not designed for simplified logistics.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

@PaliwalWarrior, your point is good. C295 can take 9000kg as per wiki.
I guess a large number of small planes are needed by India due to scattered military bases, factories and ammo depots all over the country. Large planes simplify logistics but India is not designed for simplified logistics.

but then with every new phaseoput - phase in of whole new fleets we can redesign and simplyfy our logistics no?

lets buy 60 of higher capacity aircrafts no issue

 

[Zebra]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

C-295 is not the right bird, C-27J is a far better option, bigger, more volume, engines that allow for better performance in high alt regions, longer range and commonality with C-130J.

Sir, if C-27J is better (as you said), then also in future this Airbus JV will benefit more. I guess.

 

[biswaranjanrath.sipu]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

C-295 is not the right bird, C-27J is a far better option, bigger, more volume, engines that allow for better performance in high alt regions, longer range and commonality with C-130J.

Cost is the major factor. C130j is 4 times costlier than c295.apart from that il 76 and c 17 are there for heavyweight purpose.

 

[Ray]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

There is are strategic air transporters and there are tactical air transporters.

Strategic airlifting involves moving material long distances, while tactical airlift focuses on deploying resources and material into a specific location within a theatre of operations.

Tactical air transport features short landing and take-off distances and low-pressure tires allowing operations from small or poorly-prepared airstrips.

The Avro class and AN 32 are tactical air transporters.

Boeing C-17 Globemaster III and Ilyushin Il-76 are classified as strategic air transport.

 

[sasi]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

Wht kind of fools,we have in MOD!

When deal is in our favour,RFB should be modified!

The Swedish company, which wanted to supply the Saab-2000 aircraft, has not bid because the MoD is unwilling to let it build all 56 aircraft in India.

The RfP insists that 16 aircraft must be supplied in flyaway condition. Saab, having shut down its line in Sweden, wants to build all the aircraft in India, which the RfP does not provide for.

Fresh tender likely after Tata-Airbus single bidder | idrw.org

 

[Zebra]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

^^

Typical sarkari babus.

 

[hitesh]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

Wht kind of fools,we have in MOD!

When deal is in our favour,RFB should be modified!

The Swedish company, which wanted to supply the Saab-2000 aircraft, has not bid because the MoD is unwilling to let it build all 56 aircraft in India.

The RfP insists that 16 aircraft must be supplied in flyaway condition. Saab, having shut down its line in Sweden, wants to build all the aircraft in India, which the RfP does not provide for.

Fresh tender likely after Tata-Airbus single bidder | idrw.org

Flyaway condition clause to get initial batch fast so the training & familiarity with the hardware could be initialized before actual production begins secondly you can measure it as a bench mark to compare it with domestic production if it lacks in any benchmark & given the efficiency of HAL it is a must .

 

[blueblood]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

Alenia decides not to contest Indian MTA requirement - IHS Jane's 360

Alenia Aermarchi has decided not to offer its C-27J Spartan transport aircraft to India, telling IHS Jane's that it is too advanced for the basic requirements of the Medium Transport Aircraft (MTA) programme.

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So, I guess Tata Airbus is going to win the competition. Silver lining is that C-295 costs half as much as the C27j and could lead to some serious inventory surge as was in the case of Dornier.

 

[sasi]

Flyaway condition clause to get initial batch fast so the training & familiarity with the hardware could be initialized before actual production begins secondly you can measure it as a bench mark to compare it with domestic production if it lacks in any benchmark & given the efficiency of HAL it is a must .

all that are specified in contract hardware to efficency!

American,spain,ukraine are out of this deal!

Only russia(not sure),airbus are left!

Both will milk money! U cannot get best of it!

 

[sgarg]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

I am 100% certain this deal will go to Tata/Airbus joint venture.

Others have not bid as they cannot compete. The government can award to a single bid also. There is no compulsion that the government will award a contract only if there are multiple bids.
In this case multiple companies cannot bid as aviation sector is not much developed in India.

Even if they call "international" tender, nothing will change as bids will still not come, or if they come, will not be competitive with Tata bid.

 

[sgarg]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

all that are specified in contract hardware to efficency!

American,spain,ukraine are out of this deal!

Only russia(not sure),airbus are left!

Both will milk money! U cannot get best of it!

With ongoing conflict in Ukraine, Ukraine and Russia are out of the equation.
C-27 has dropped out. What is left? Can you please list out the contenders and give your reasons.

 

[shafiq alam]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

And here it goes again "the same old single vendor situation" {both for navy helos and IAF in a single week } hope they dont repeat UPA's scrapping and reissuing tender process to delay this for another four or so years

 

[sgarg]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

And here it goes again "the same old single vendor situation" {both for navy helos and IAF in a single week } hope they dont repeat UPA's scrapping and reissuing tender process to delay this for another four or so years

The government can always change the rule. GOI can give the contract to a single vendor. Most of the defence procurement does not involve tenders. There is nothing strange here.

The point of tendering is to get the best product at best possible terms. However defence field is different from civilian fields. Only a few vendors exist even internationally.

 

[shafiq alam]

Re: IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Pr

good point but the past 10 years many projects have been stalled because of this same issue, in many cases we are not able to get anything in the hope of getting the best possible product in the least possible price which has rather proved counter productive. In my opinion its better to get an average product on time rather than hoping to get a brilliant product 10 years down the line.