Finland - Society and Economy

[jouni]

There is. 15000 in Russia and 350 in Finland. What do you want to suggest?

So, you did not noticed thst those tanks grow trees. Is Russia focusing on green warfare, or are those tanks just simply rusty piece of kit, like propably majority of Russian tanks.

 

[jouni]

Reporters Without Borders

Freedom of press is the core of democracy. India is at 140 and China 175. Shame, shame on you. Luckily at the time of internet people from countries that censor media and prevent investigative journalism can get info from those countries newspapers that do not.

Freedom of expression and freedom of the press are an integral part of European values
-Sauli Niinistö President of the Republic of Finland

 

[asianobserve]

@jouni

I'm getting jealous now... How can I migrate to Finland?

 

[amoy]

Scandinavian states are known for all those goodies, press freedom alike. One of my classmates who studied in Norway holds them in high regards.

It would be perfect if u can put up a homegrown quote of a Finn instead of the one by T.Jefferson

 

[jouni]

@jouni

I'm getting jealous now... How can I migrate to Finland?

Move here and establish a Malaysian restaurant, we could use some variation to our reindeer/ herring diet. I made this thread, because some members here accuse Finnish owned newspaper The Moscow Times spreading propaganda to Russia, when in real life it is the opposite: Moscow Times is one of the last newspapers not censored by Russian government. I salute Finnish company Sanoma for holding the beacon of decency high in Russia. Russians deserved to be treated like normal people, not some brainless herd...

Actually, when I came to this forum, I honestly thought that some members here are on a payroll of FSB, but later I realized that it is not so, they are just hardcore Russia fans... and get all their info from sources close to Russian security apparatus.

 

[jouni]

Thanks, I changed it although new one is a little bit lame. Well, you cant´t have them all, I rather have free democracy with leaders without the quoting skills of some talented dictator, than the other way round.

states are known for all those goodies, press freedom alike. One of my classmates who studied in Norway holds them in high regards.

It would be perfect if u can put up a homegrown quote of a Finn instead of the one by T.Jefferson

 

[jouni]

Scandinavian states are known for all those goodies, press freedom alike. One of my classmates who studied in Norway holds them in high regards.

It would be perfect if u can put up a homegrown quote of a Finn instead of the one by T.Jefferson

I personally have not had a pleasure to know any Chinese people. When I was studying architecture, it was very close that I would have gone to study to the University of Shanghai in an exchange program, but then I chose to work in a German architect office instead.

I have huge respect for Chinese members in this forum, based on your posts, you seem to be very level headed people. I do not know if there is a word in english language "propaganda literate", that is a common phrase in Finnish language. It means that living close to Russia we have had to develop a skill to read between lines to understand what Russian press said. That skill is now more useful than ever. Our foreign minister said, that finns are lucky among Europeans, because we are used to Russian propaganda, and can read between the lines. I wish our Indian friends could develop the same skill.

 

[Ray]

I personally have not had a pleasure to know any Chinese people. When I was studying architecture, it was very close that I would have gone to study to the University of Shanghai in an exchange program, but then I chose to work in a German architect office instead.

I have huge respect for Chinese members in this forum, based on your posts, you seem to be very level headed people. I do not know if there is a word in english language "propaganda literate", that is a common phrase in Finnish language. It means that living close to Russia we have had to develop a skill to read between lines to understand what Russian press said. That skill is now more useful than ever. Our foreign minister said, that finns are lucky among Europeans, because we are used to Russian propaganda, and can read between the lines. I wish our Indian friends could develop the same skill.

Yes, we have similar skill to read between the lines, thanks to our history of having to lived in the Cold War days and now.

Freedom of expression and freedom of the press are an integral part of European values
-Sauli Niinistö President of the Republic of Finland

Your President jokes.

We have seen enough of the so called 'freedom'.

Freedom is not a Western patent, I assure you.

Just see how your Nobel Prizes are given for a starter.

 

[salute]

well indian media is only in the business of making money.

 

[thethinker]

Censorship in Finland

Finnish media and censorship

Finnish TV channels, newspapers and magazines have to fit their news, stories and articles into political ideology of Nordic cooperation. Anything which does not fit into political ideology of Nordic cooperation, will be hidden from the people.

Most Finnish TV journalists are actually the puppets of the elite. A regrettable thing in Finnish journalism is that some journalists are in secret party members. For example TV journalist Petri Sarvamaa is a National Coalition Party member. But this fact was secret before the electoral campaign in 2009. Sarvamaa is now a member of the European Parliament. Probably many other TV journalists are party members too.

An example of TV censorship
TV presenter Petri Sarvamaa's program A-studio on January 31, 2007 interviewed locals in Imatra, South Eastern Finland. YLE TV1 showed them saying several words of no importance on TV (censored: but not their actual message to oppose mandatory swedish).

Soon after a local newspaper told that parents, teachers and pupils seen on TV wanted to get rid of mandatory swedish. But they were not allowed to say this on TV. Petri Sarvamaa and YLE journalist Pasi Peiponen were responsible for censorship. Who told them to do so? The politicians and government.

*

YLE news interview programs (A-Studio, Ajankohtainen Kakkonen etc) have never dealt with the language law or language law bill. Also the other Finnish TV companies have kept silent on this subject. For example the TV program 45 minutes of MTV3 has never told about the language law. In Finland there are three major TV companies, YLE, MTV3 and Nelonen.

The Finnish TV news seldom mentions mandatory language teaching. Also magazines and newspapers write seldom about mandatory swedish. And if they do so, most if not all articles on this are one-sided.

As far as I know the TV News has never told that the majority of the Finns is against mandatory swedish. And newspapers and magazines are almost as hushed as TV. However there is an exception when Kaleva newspaper (and 5 other newspapers) published on January 2, 2010 an opinion poll on mandatory swedish. It told that 66 percent of the Finns is against the mandatory swedish. The rest of the newspapers seem to be censored by government, because they are silent on this.

Minorities - Censorship in Finland

 

[DingDong]

FREE PRESS: Freedom for BBC, CNN to run their propaganda unchecked. India is totally free for Indians and we are happy with that. On the day we feel like needing more freedom, we will get it for ourselves.

And like one forum member has already pointed out, after going through the list of "Nobel Peace Prize" and "Magsaysay Prize" (not exactly western) winners one can easy conclude that Western version of Freedom and Liberty is seriously flawed. We recently witnessed the western freedom and liberty in Ferguson and in Ukraine.

 

[jouni]

Censorship in Finland

Finnish media and censorship

Finnish TV channels, newspapers and magazines have to fit their news, stories and articles into political ideology of Nordic cooperation. Anything which does not fit into political ideology of Nordic cooperation, will be hidden from the people.

Most Finnish TV journalists are actually the puppets of the elite. A regrettable thing in Finnish journalism is that some journalists are in secret party members. For example TV journalist Petri Sarvamaa is a National Coalition Party member. But this fact was secret before the electoral campaign in 2009. Sarvamaa is now a member of the European Parliament. Probably many other TV journalists are party members too.

An example of TV censorship
TV presenter Petri Sarvamaa's program A-studio on January 31, 2007 interviewed locals in Imatra, South Eastern Finland. YLE TV1 showed them saying several words of no importance on TV (censored: but not their actual message to oppose mandatory swedish).

Soon after a local newspaper told that parents, teachers and pupils seen on TV wanted to get rid of mandatory swedish. But they were not allowed to say this on TV. Petri Sarvamaa and YLE journalist Pasi Peiponen were responsible for censorship. Who told them to do so? The politicians and government.

*

YLE news interview programs (A-Studio, Ajankohtainen Kakkonen etc) have never dealt with the language law or language law bill. Also the other Finnish TV companies have kept silent on this subject. For example the TV program 45 minutes of MTV3 has never told about the language law. In Finland there are three major TV companies, YLE, MTV3 and Nelonen.

The Finnish TV news seldom mentions mandatory language teaching. Also magazines and newspapers write seldom about mandatory swedish. And if they do so, most if not all articles on this are one-sided.

As far as I know the TV News has never told that the majority of the Finns is against mandatory swedish. And newspapers and magazines are almost as hushed as TV. However there is an exception when Kaleva newspaper (and 5 other newspapers) published on January 2, 2010 an opinion poll on mandatory swedish. It told that 66 percent of the Finns is against the mandatory swedish. The rest of the newspapers seem to be censored by government, because they are silent on this.

Minorities - Censorship in Finland

This is about language dispute, like you see this is free article and an example of the freedom of the press.

 

[jouni]

FREE PRESS: Freedom for BBC, CNN to run their propaganda unchecked. India is totally free for Indians and we are happy with that. On the day we feel like needing more freedom, we will get it for ourselves.

And like one forum member has already pointed out, after going through the list of "Nobel Peace Prize" and "Magsaysay Prize" (not exactly western) winners one can easy conclude that Western version of Freedom and Liberty is seriously flawed. We recently witnessed the western freedom and liberty in Ferguson and in Ukraine.

I guess the last peace prize was given to Indian and Pakistani jointly, has that caused bad blood in India?

 

[thethinker]

This is about language dispute, like you see this is free article and an example of the freedom of the press.

From the same article :

In 2008 a Swedish-Finnish company closed down a pulp mill at Kemijärvi. Many people, including politicians, resisted this across Finland. I read dozens of articles about this Kemijärvi pulp mill case. Just one article told the truth: Wallenberg family was behind this, according to Jouko Suomalainen from the Finnish Paper Workers' Union. Finnish TV and most newspapers never mentioned Wallenberg by name. Finnish media hardly ever mentions influential businessmen, such as Wallenberg.

There is hardly a day without propaganda on Finnish TV. Finnish TV channels have broadcast political propaganda as far as I can remember.

One reason for censorship is that Finland's struggle for existence has been hard. It has been an easy way to rule by keeping the people unaware.

Sweden's government constantly interferes in Finland's internal affairs. It has a close contact with Finnish politicians. The media has never told this. Finnish media has never mentioned that some politicians are actually puppets of Sweden.

Perhaps only weather forecasts are reliable on Finnish TV News. Are the weather forecasts on Finnish TV always accurate enough is of course another question. Unlike TV anchors, meteorologists on television and radio probably do not have political connections.

 

[jouni]

From the same article :

In 2008 a Swedish-Finnish company closed down a pulp mill at Kemijärvi. Many people, including politicians, resisted this across Finland. I read dozens of articles about this Kemijärvi pulp mill case. Just one article told the truth: Wallenberg family was behind this, according to Jouko Suomalainen from the Finnish Paper Workers' Union. Finnish TV and most newspapers never mentioned Wallenberg by name. Finnish media hardly ever mentions influential businessmen, such as Wallenberg.

There is hardly a day without propaganda on Finnish TV. Finnish TV channels have broadcast political propaganda as far as I can remember.

One reason for censorship is that Finland's struggle for existence has been hard. It has been an easy way to rule by keeping the people unaware.

Sweden's government constantly interferes in Finland's internal affairs. It has a close contact with Finnish politicians. The media has never told this. Finnish media has never mentioned that some politicians are actually puppets of Sweden.

Perhaps only weather forecasts are reliable on Finnish TV News. Are the weather forecasts on Finnish TV always accurate enough is of course another question. Unlike TV anchors, meteorologists on television and radio probably do not have political connections.

Interesting to read about Kemijärvi from Indian member. I live 70 km from there. This case got plenty of publicity, I guess this writer was pissed off because many people lost their jobs, that is Globalization and lack of need, ipad replaces paper. One aspect of freedom of speech is that different papers write about different aspects one look from the elites perspective, the other from working mans perspective. Of course it is up to the viewer to know this.

 

[amoy]

I have huge respect for Chinese members in this forum, based on your posts, you seem to be very level headed people. I do not know if there is a word in english language "propaganda literate", that is a common phrase in Finnish language. It means that living close to Russia we have had to develop a skill to read between lines to understand what Russian press said. That skill is now more useful than ever. Our foreign minister said, that finns are lucky among Europeans, because we are used to Russian propaganda, and can read between the lines. I wish our Indian friends could develop the same skill.

"propaganda literate" may be = immune to propaganda? As for our mutual neighbour I see it mainly in geopolitical perspectives. Certainly no "approvals" for whatever Putin/Russia is doing right now. I'm pro China but never pro Russia - I believe u also read it btwn lines too

Scan. leads the world in many ways - like Sweden model in collective negotiations / resolving labour disputes is widely studied. Sure that's included in "European values".

 

[jouni]

"propaganda literate" may be = immune to propaganda? As for our mutual neighbour I see it mainly in geopolitical perspectives. Certainly no "approvals" for whatever Putin/Russia is doing right now. I'm pro China but never pro Russia - I believe u also read it btwn lines too

Scan. leads the world in many ways - like Sweden model in collective negotiations / resolving labour disputes is widely studied. Sure that's included in "European values".

Sweden's Political Crisis Ends With Anti-Immigration Party Sidelined

They made some clever moves to sideline anti-immigration party. Swedish political system is good, very good. They recognized Palestinian state, I guess. Bold move.

 

[thethinker]

Interesting to read about Kemijärvi from Indian member. I live 70 km from there. This case got plenty of publicity, I guess this writer was pissed off because many people lost their jobs, that is Globalization and lack of need, ipad replaces paper. One aspect of freedom of speech is that different papers write about different aspects one look from the elites perspective, the other from working mans perspective. Of course it is up to the viewer to know this.

So suppose if someone wants to put a biased positive spin about a few countries, they'd weigh more heavily on positive news/data and give rankings accordingly.

Hence when news are always reported with different biases then it would also mean it is ok if surveys bring up different conclusions based on such news. Right?

And does that also mean that all of such surveys conducted then aren't really absolute and hence so no specific entity can claim supremacy at all?

 

[thethinker]

Interestingly, Reporters Without Borders mentions :

Reporters Without Borders

The ranking of some countries has also been affected by a tendency to interpret national security needs in an overly broad and abusive manner to the detriment of the right to inform and be informed. This trend constitutes a growing threat worldwide and is even endangering freedom of information in countries regarded as democracies.

Wonder if that means if there is an India spring just like Arab spring, then it will make India move up in rankings? Ushering new democracies, let national security be damned. :thumb:

Regarding India, this is what it mentions with Kashmir and Chhattisgarh being given a special mention:

India (140th, +1) experienced an unprecedented wave of violence against journalists, with eight killed in 2013. They are targeted by both state and non-state actors. Almost no region is spared but Kashmir and Chhattisgarh continue to be the only two where violence and censorship are endemic. Those responsible for threats and physical violence against journalists, who are often abandoned by the judicial system and forced to censor themselves, include police and security forces as well as criminal groups, demonstrators and political party supporters.

 

[thethinker]

Digging up facts about organizations who conduct surveys like this is interesting! Thanks @jouni

Reporters Without Borders distort internet freedom in Vietnam

Monday, May 06, 2013 - 15:33:52


By ranking Vietnam at the bottom of the 2013 press freedom index, Reporters Without Borders maintained a biased, distorted and prejudiced view, imposed this bias on its assessment of internet freedom in Vietnam. Since the first celebration of World Day against Cyber Censorship in 2008, Reporters Without Borders has listed Vietnam as one of the Enemies of the Internet. Since then, despite the rapid growth of internet use in Vietnam, this organization has not changed its view. In the last 5 years, RWB has consistently listed Vietnam as an enemy of the internet showing its own lack of objectivity. In its report on the 2013 World Day against Cyber Censorship, Reporters Without Borders said stated that Vietnam has cyber security forces, but ensuring cyber security is normal in every country that has the internet. This organization also distorted and spread the slander that Vietnam suppresses internet freedom, falsely claiming that Vietnam is the world's second largest prison for netizens. In fact, the bloggers that Reporters Without Borders used as examples were individuals who abused the internet to cause disorder in Vietnam and were convicted publicly under Vietnamese law. The Vietnamese State, on one hand, creates the best positive conditions for internet development and on the other hand, has strict regulations to protect internet users from harmful information, prevent negative impacts on Vietnamese morality, culture and tradition, and prevent bad people from abusing the internet to threaten national security. Other countries have similar laws to ensure cyber security.

The public rightly wonders how, if what Reporters Without Borders has stated is true, that Vietnam is an enemy of the internet, the number of internet users in Vietnam could increase 15 fold from 1992 to 2012. The answer to this question reveals the truth about internet freedom in Vietnam.

One more, an older one :
Bias claim against reporters' group | Media | The Guardian

The international journalists' organisation Reporters Without Borders (RSF) has been accused of receiving money from the US state department and Cuban exile groups and of pursuing a political agenda.

The claims of political bias, published in a report in Washington this week, were denied by the group yesterday.