F22 or F35 / PAKFA

[arya]

Pin drop silence means today IAf cant fight against J20, SU35 & we are helpless & we should thanks to china govt for not attacking on us . because still we are waiting for MMRCA & S400 till now we dont have any option .

Guys dont we have anything to stop them if not i am really worry what the hell IAF & Defence ministry were doing

Pls tell me how can we stop them dont tell abt future we will have this or that tell me how to stop them with today resource with logic.

What was IAF & minstry ere doing while china getting su35s & making j20 oh they may be busy in party

 

[Kchontha]

Imho, Chinese have only received 14 su 35 of 24 ordered for 2 billion dollars so far and remaining 10 are yet to join operational service. All these 14 are based at Suixi airbase and these aircrafts have been busy patrolling South China Sea vis a vis other rivals' threat there. Besides, it is rumored that Chinese are more interested to the plane's radar and engine for reverse engineering purposes as such small numbers of ordered rather than intruding other airspace. As far as j20 is concerned most pundits especially Western experts suspect its operational capabilities and fifth generation fighter aircrafts statuses such as the engine, sensors, radar, stealth etc etc. As such Chinese don't have the resources to intrude other airspace at present. Besides for invading well fortified Indian airspace they have to move all these aircraft to South Western airbase (eg tibet) leaving other front open, prone and vulnerable. This is very much unlikely because this is within Brahmos range and Chinese are not silly enough to dare to do so. Besides mki is not redundant and still potent enough to give hell of a fight to its rivals.

 

[vishnugupt]

Pin drop silence means today IAf cant fight against J20, SU35 & we are helpless & we should thanks to china govt for not attacking on us . because still we are waiting for MMRCA & S400 till now we dont have any option .

Guys dont we have anything to stop them if not i am really worry what the hell IAF & Defence ministry were doing

Pls tell me how can we stop them dont tell abt future we will have this or that tell me how to stop them with today resource with logic.

What was IAF & minstry ere doing while china getting su35s & making j20 oh they may be busy in party

Valid question, infact we all are worried for some extent except, our IAF which is busy in making road map to get ride from indigenous products and make way for foreign maal.
Can we guess why tejas taking too much time?? Tejas will achieve FOC only by end of 2019. Why? In-flight refueling test will really take that much time! Actually our IAF has increased requirements which will take time and push MK2 and AMCA further away

 

[arya]

Imho, Chinese have only received 14 su 35 of 24 ordered for 2 billion dollars so far and remaining 10 are yet to join operational service. All these 14 are based at Suixi airbase and these aircrafts have been busy patrolling South China Sea vis a vis other rivals' threat there. Besides, it is rumored that Chinese are more interested to the plane's radar and engine for reverse engineering purposes as such small numbers of ordered rather than intruding other airspace. As far as j20 is concerned most pundits especially Western experts suspect its operational capabilities and fifth generation fighter aircrafts statuses such as the engine, sensors, radar, stealth etc etc. As such Chinese don't have the resources to intrude other airspace at present. Besides for invading well fortified Indian airspace they have to move all these aircraft to South Western airbase (eg tibet) leaving other front open, prone and vulnerable. This is very much unlikely because this is within Brahmos range and Chinese are not silly enough to dare to do so. Besides mki is not redundant and still potent enough to give hell of a fight to its rivals.

Our airforce is helpless , yes we were planing & preparing for PAKFA but govt is not part of the project in short we are again helpless .

We should thanks to china for not attacking on us , our officer were busy in buttering

 

[Adioz]

Our airforce is helpless , yes we were planing & preparing for PAKFA but govt is not part of the project in short we are again helpless .

We should thanks to china for not attacking on us , our officer were busy in buttering

Stop being such an alarmist. Chinese J-20 is far from ready to take on a layered air defence. In time, the PLAAF will start fielding J-20 in greater numbers and readiness levels in Chengdu. Around that time, AMCA would be in prototype phase. Maybe IAF will purchase some Su-57 off the shelf. But if they choose not to do so, that is when J-20 will start presenting a serious challenge to Eastern Air Command. But even that challenge will not be insurmountable. If we change our Air War doctrine to focus more on defence in the Eastern theatre, we will still present a formidable challenge to PLAAF. And lest we forget, PLAAF is an air force that has never participated in a war.

So stop being such an alarmist. We are not "helpless" against the PLAAF. We don't need to "thank China for not attacking us", because if they attack us, they will quickly realise that geographical advantage and experience of the IAF cannot be offset by some technological superiority that the PLAAF claims to have over us.

 

[lcafanboy]

Our airforce is helpless , yes we were planing & preparing for PAKFA but govt is not part of the project in short we are again helpless .

We should thanks to china for not attacking on us , our officer were busy in buttering

If IAF position only 10 out of 15 su30mki sqdns and 2 Rafale sqdns it will become too difficult for plaaf to handle in defensive mode.

For porkistan upgraded Mirages, mig29s, jaguars and 40 LCAs are enough to bring porki air force to knees. 5 sqdns of su30mki and 45 mig29ks for protecting seas and Andamans.

China can't even imagine attacking India and you want to thank them for not attacking India...

It's iafs job to cry for new toys, we may not have sqdns number we previously had but capability wise we are superior than before..

Earlier paf at least on paper was seen capable to fight IAF now it's nowhere near iaf s capabilities, so IAF can deploy major assets against plaaf.

 

[arya]

If IAF position only 10 out of 15 su30mki sqdns and 2 Rafale sqdns it will become too difficult for plaaf to handle in defensive mode.

For porkistan upgraded Mirages, mig29s, jaguars and 40 LCAs are enough to bring porki air force to knees. 5 sqdns of su30mki and 45 mig29ks for protecting seas and Andamans.

China can't even imagine attacking India and you want to thank them for not attacking India...

It's iafs job to cry for new toys, we may not have sqdns number we previously had but capability wise we are superior than before..

Earlier paf at least on paper was seen capable to fight IAF now it's nowhere near iaf s capabilities, so IAF can deploy major assets against plaaf.

Brother i hope you can see & find the truth i am just saying what was our airforce was doing while china getting su35s & making J20 . what was our think tank were doing . they put pour saftey in china hands . what they did nothing ???

From last 15 years either IAF is going to downward we didn't complete our homework .

Tell me what was our R&D team doing. we should be proactive but see our attitude we are still talking about future . You are saying Rafale but tell me do u have Rafael plane today no we dont have .

Brother today china has s 400 systems it means our panes missile cant enter into china but we are still trying to close the deal for S 400


Dont you know pakistan is also getting help from russia , remember in next war we will not get any help from russia or his friend . we have to face 2 front and internal condition .

 

[arya]

IAF need fighter planes f 35 or pakfa. Govt must purchase some 5 th gen planes from any country and should increase speed for AMCA.

HAL & DRDO need to give result CAG is putting some serious question on them

 

[arya]

If IAF position only 10 out of 15 su30mki sqdns and 2 Rafale sqdns it will become too difficult for plaaf to handle in defensive mode.

For porkistan upgraded Mirages, mig29s, jaguars and 40 LCAs are enough to bring porki air force to knees. 5 sqdns of su30mki and 45 mig29ks for protecting seas and Andamans.

China can't even imagine attacking India and you want to thank them for not attacking India...

It's iafs job to cry for new toys, we may not have sqdns number we previously had but capability wise we are superior than before..

Earlier paf at least on paper was seen capable to fight IAF now it's nowhere near iaf s capabilities, so IAF can deploy major assets against plaaf.

Tell me do we have 40 LCA do we completed up gradation of MIG29, JAGUARS , Mirages all things are either on paper or under process . so yo are talking about future my question is today condition .

We have to show red eyes to lazy non performer may be in IAF or in HAL or DRDO they have to perform , india need output.

See CAG report how they are showing mirror to DRDO & IAF ,

 

[vishnugupt]

I guess, we have got some DRDO and IAF guys here they are having answers for any of problem specially, in Typical V.K. Saraswat style, like what if china have blah blah...... We have Rahul gandhi, we will field him on the top of Himalaya or China's weapons are not mature or copied.
Though it is a pure ignorance. The Guy above raise a valid point. We are lagging on every front, our programs just getting delayed and delayed while China are coming with large spectrum of weapons. Suppose, where China would be by time we wake up and start working on AMCA and other projects?

 

[Adioz]

I guess, we have got some DRDO and IAF guys here they are having answers for any of problem specially, in Typical V.K. Saraswat style, like what if china have blah blah...... We have Rahul gandhi, we will field him on the top of Himalaya or China's weapons are not mature or copied.
Though it is a pure ignorance. The Guy above raise a valid point. We are lagging on every front, our programs just getting delayed and delayed while China are coming with large spectrum of weapons. Suppose, where China would be by time we wake up and start working on AMCA and other projects?

His point is valid, but alarmist. We are not "helpless". We are simply in a bad position. A disadvantageous position. We have already started working on AMCA in case you are not aware. If China was to attack us today, even if they attack with all the J-20 they have, the IAF is not going to simply roll over. The Chinese have the advantage in offense and in Air wars, offense is the best defence. But technology is not the only factor at play here. IAF is not a pushover. But we are certainly not helping ourselves by giving away our combat edge to the adversary.

 

[arya]

His point is valid, but alarmist. We are not "helpless". We are simply in a bad position. A disadvantageous position. We have already started working on AMCA in case you are not aware. If China was to attack us today, even if they attack with all the J-20 they have, the IAF is not going to simply roll over. The Chinese have the advantage in offense and in Air wars, offense is the best defence. But technology is not the only factor at play here. IAF is not a pushover. But we are certainly not helping ourselves by giving away our combat edge to the adversary.

You can call me anything but i will ask question if it is related to India security . i will name & shame lazy & non performer.

 

[Adioz]

You can call me anything but i will ask question if it is related to India security . i will name & shame lazy & non performer.

I am not calling you anything. I am calling your views alarmist. Sometimes, even I become alarmist about things. For example, I am very wary of the Americans trying to destroy our indigenous industry and of their agreements like CISMOA that aim to compromise our sovereignty. Now you can name and shame any "lazy, non-performer" on a random internet forum that only defence nuts like us frequent. Its not going to change anything. It just seems like a rant. If you really want things to improve in our MIC, you need to start finding problems in it. "Lazy" and "non-performer" and "reservation-chaap" etc are not problems. This is you being lazy about criticizing the agencies you are blaming for delays. And finding problems alone is not sufficient. Find some robust solutions to those problems.

Simply shouting that the boat has sprung a leak does not help anyone. Our ship has sprung a leak, but its not the end of the world. We have pumps and we have ways to isolate and repair the leak. We are not in the danger of sinking imminently. Besides, this leak (J-20 advantage of PLAAF) is not that big of a hole in our hull. Its a small leak that can be plugged by off the shelf purchases of Su-57 or maybe even F-35, if IAF so decides.

 

[arya]

I am not calling you anything. I am calling your views alarmist. Sometimes, even I become alarmist about things. For example, I am very wary of the Americans trying to destroy our indigenous industry and of their agreements like CISMOA that aim to compromise our sovereignty. Now you can name and shame any "lazy, non-performer" on a random internet forum that only defence nuts like us frequent. Its not going to change anything. It just seems like a rant. If you really want things to improve in our MIC, you need to start finding problems in it. "Lazy" and "non-performer" and "reservation-chaap" etc are not problems. This is you being lazy about criticizing the agencies you are blaming for delays. And finding problems alone is not sufficient. Find some robust solutions to those problems.

Simply shouting that the boat has sprung a leak does not help anyone. Our ship has sprung a leak, but its not the end of the world. We have pumps and we have ways to isolate and repair the leak. We are not in the danger of sinking imminently. Besides, this leak (J-20 advantage of PLAAF) is not that big of a hole in our hull. Its a small leak that can be plugged by off the shelf purchases of Su-57 or maybe even F-35, if IAF so decides.

yes and thread is all about either buy F35, or Su57 PAKFA , We have to take fast decision because its a dam serious for india . I think we should go for few F35 & also rejoin PAKFA project our team will learn from them . govt need to talk with them .

We cant afford to loss russia & e need usa for future products .

 

[Adioz]

I think we should go for few F35 & also rejoin PAKFA project

Why not buy a few French, Korean and Turkish 5th gen fighters along the way as well. And since all the money is being poured to foreign projects, why not just shut down the AMCA program. Its not like we have money to waste on domestic fighter projects. In fact, we can keep doing this for the sixth and seventh generation fighters as well. Like we have been doing since independence. Let us pledge to never be self-dependent.
</s@rc@sm>

We cant afford to loss russia & e need usa for future products .

Have some faith in your own country. IAF is capable of defending this nation against China. It has said so repeatedly. IAF has decided against FGFA program with Russia. IAF has declined that F-35 is not on the table for India. I think we should be happy that AMCA is receiving so much support from IAF.

 

[arya]

Why not buy a few French, Korean and Turkish 5th gen fighters along the way as well. And since all the money is being poured to foreign projects, why not just shut down the AMCA program. Its not like we have money to waste on domestic fighter projects. In fact, we can keep doing this for the sixth and seventh generation fighters as well. Like we have been doing since independence. Let us pledge to never be self-dependent.
</s@rc@sm>


Have some faith in your own country. IAF is capable of defending this nation against China. It has said so repeatedly. IAF has decided against FGFA program with Russia. IAF has declined that F-35 is not on the table for India. I think we should be happy that AMCA is receiving so much support from IAF.

Well whats wrong if go for few f35 like 10- 15 Nos & pakfa as per our old agreement . well we will gain / learn from project under make in india .

 

[Adioz]

we took 30 years for artillery guns for army

Well whats wrong if go for few f35 like 10- 15 Nos & pakfa as per our old agreement . well we will gain / learn from project under make in india .

You think USA will give you any know how, let alone allow you to manufacture F-35 in India, that too a paltry order of one squadron of F-35?
IAF has already stated its dissatisfaction with PAK FA. If PAK FA can bridge those gaps, IAF will buy it. Simple.

BTW, why do you think AMCA will not work out?

 

[s002wjh]

Pin drop silence means today IAf cant fight against J20, SU35 & we are helpless & we should thanks to china govt for not attacking on us . because still we are waiting for MMRCA & S400 till now we dont have any option .

Guys dont we have anything to stop them if not i am really worry what the hell IAF & Defence ministry were doing

Pls tell me how can we stop them dont tell abt future we will have this or that tell me how to stop them with today resource with logic.

What was IAF & minstry ere doing while china getting su35s & making j20 oh they may be busy in party

China has no interest to fight India. Its attention is at US. Notice how US want India to get onboard to counter china. Best scenario for US is for India and China exhaust it's resources to counter each other . This way US don't have to worry about 2 raising power in Asia that has potential to challenge US dominance in india ocean or SCS .

 

[arya]

what a news ?? its good now we can talk and ask for more .

 

[Armand2REP]

what a news ?? its good now we can talk and ask for more .

As said by Russia who still tries to hold talks.. we already heard the Indian side which is the only one that matters.