F22 or F35 / PAKFA

arya

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PAKFA is history now , so what is IAF plan for 5 th gen planes , is it not golden time india should go for at least 15 f 35 fighter planes till our AMCA will fly .


IAF need some fighter planes to counter Chinese SU35S till now no planes in capable to stand against su35 . su30 mki upgradation plan is still not working super su 30 Mki



Guys pls give your feedback
 

Armand2REP

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It is far too late for India to get any meaningful workshare on F-35. The only realistic option is to join France and Germany on the SCAF project.
 

binayak95

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It is far too late for India to get any meaningful workshare on F-35. The only realistic option is to join France and Germany on the SCAF project.
PAKFA is history now , so what is IAF plan for 5 th gen planes , is it not golden time india should go for at least 15 f 35 fighter planes till our AMCA will fly .


IAF need some fighter planes to counter Chinese SU35S till now no planes in capable to stand against su35 . su30 mki upgradation plan is still not working super su 30 Mki



Guys pls give your feedback
The only thing that stealth is critical for is SEAD/DEAD missions since modern day AD systems make it prohibitively expensive for bomb trucks to conduct strike missions (I am looking at your fat- but sexy, nimble ass, Su-30MKI)

So, you need either:
a. Fast stealthy jets (AMCA, please) to go in, expend ordnance and bug out.
b. stealthy UCAVs to do the same (with lesser chance of bugging out successfully)
c. combination of both
d. gimme a score of Brahmos baby!

But, we, being Indians, will go : why choose?
 

Armand2REP

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The only thing that stealth is critical for is SEAD/DEAD missions since modern day AD systems make it prohibitively expensive for bomb trucks to conduct strike missions (I am looking at your fat- but sexy, nimble ass, Su-30MKI)

So, you need either:
a. Fast stealthy jets (AMCA, please) to go in, expend ordnance and bug out.
b. stealthy UCAVs to do the same (with lesser chance of bugging out successfully)
c. combination of both
d. gimme a score of Brahmos baby!

But, we, being Indians, will go : why choose?
Ideally the AMCA would be the optimal choice. Do you have enough confidence in DRDO to produce it on time and miss the window of opportunity that the SCAF represents? There is not enough money for both.
 

arya

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I am thinking is there any plan in IAF . i hope they are not sleeping about future of IAF . What is action plan for 5th gen fighter planes .

We drooped PAKFA , i am sure DRDO/HAL cant make AMCA for next 15 years so whats plan??

Japan , france making 5.5 gen planes. Shall we invite them for co development .

If i am not wrong IAF must required at least 15 + 5 gen planes in NEXT 3 years & USA only country from we can get it may be f22 or f35 . we need something to counter su35s .
 

binayak95

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Hit the hammer on the nail! Lets see though. Seems like IAF has woken up and is taking the LCA program under its direct authority. Hope they do the same with AMCA. Besides there's been some serious talk that the winner of the 2nd round of MRCA (Dassault, obviously) will be asked for cooperation and help with AMCA.
Ideally the AMCA would be the optimal choice. Do you have enough confidence in DRDO to produce it on time and miss the window of opportunity that the SCAF represents? There is not enough money for both.
 

Illusive

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It is far too late for India to get any meaningful workshare on F-35. The only realistic option is to join France and Germany on the SCAF project.
AMCA or not I think there's a good lesson to learn from the Russian fiasco is that future fighter jets as we speak of today are prohibitively expensive. And it'd be ideal to have good amount of orders on those planes to make it viable plus share development cost. Basically the f35 route, but US had all the say in terms tech. We can do much different but these multi nation projects can be a beuracractic nightmare if the taxpayers money aren't producing results, so it'd need to be a high priority project.
 

arya

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AMCA or not I think there's a good lesson to learn from the Russian fiasco is that future fighter jets as we speak of today are prohibitively expensive. And it'd be ideal to have good amount of orders on those planes to make it viable plus share development cost. Basically the f35 route, but US had all the say in terms tech. We can do much different but these multi nation projects can be a beuracractic nightmare if the taxpayers money aren't producing results, so it'd need to be a high priority project.
Your are right HAL/DRDO will take lots of lots time for AMCA and waste large amount of money , we can use them in other things , we have to buy few 5 Gen planes from other countries under make in india , our Engg will learn from them .

We can afford money but we can loss time . Dont govt know the condition of Airforce . how will IAF stop Chiniese airforce if they enter into delhi sky how??

SU400 will also take at least 3 year & no one is worrying about national security ??

Do we have any think thank or planner for forces or all are buttering in front of govt .
 

Armand2REP

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Hit the hammer on the nail! Lets see though. Seems like IAF has woken up and is taking the LCA program under its direct authority. Hope they do the same with AMCA. Besides there's been some serious talk that the winner of the 2nd round of MRCA (Dassault, obviously) will be asked for cooperation and help with AMCA.
True, it might very well end up that AMCA will be an Indian derivative of the SCAF project. If Dassault wins the order for 110 fighters then India will not have to officially enter SCAF, but can reap its benefits as offsets for AMCA. Depending on how far DRDO can successfully get in the AMCA development will be all that much less foreign equipment will be needed, if the time comes for assistance, Dassault will be there looking to offload its offset obligation.
 

Kchontha

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India has already expended Rs 1,483.15 crore on preliminary design stage of FGFA programme. What would happen to the
expenditure incurred if the FGFA programme is stalled? Experts please comment.
 

Adioz

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AMCA will be an Indian derivative of the SCAF project
Sorry bro, but AMCA is already finished preliminary design phase. So even if we collaborate with France for a 5th gen fighter, it will most likely be done in order to install advanced avionics for AMCA. BTW, what is the SCAF?
 

Armand2REP

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Sorry bro, but AMCA is already finished preliminary design phase. So even if we collaborate with France for a 5th gen fighter, it will most likely be done in order to install advanced avionics for AMCA. BTW, what is the SCAF?
AMCA did not enter the preliminary design phase until last year and is set to fly a demonstrator the same year as SCAF.

http://idrw.org/aero-india-2017-amc...ary-design-stage-first-flight-likely-by-2025/

SCAF is Systeme de Combat Aerien Futur, the French ambiguation of FACS, Future Air Combat System.
 

Adioz

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AMCA did not enter the preliminary design phase until last year and is set to fly a demonstrator the same year as SCAF.

http://idrw.org/aero-india-2017-amc...ary-design-stage-first-flight-likely-by-2025/

SCAF is Systeme de Combat Aerien Futur, the French ambiguation of FACS, Future Air Combat System.
AMCA TD fabrication EOI is already out. Vendor will be selected by this year end. Tech demonstrators will fly by 2023. Prototype Vehicle phase will start in 2025. IOC for AMCA should be achieved by 2030, albeit with foreign components.
Preliminary Deisgn Review has been completed. Read this:-
The issuing if the EOI indicates that wind tunnel tests and the Preliminary Design Review(PDR) might have been completed.
source: http://forceindia.net/aeronautical-development-agency-issues-eoi-manufacture-ngtd/
Meanwhile, FACS is slated to enter service in 2040. Its a no-brainer that IAF will stick with AMCA.
 

Adioz

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Your are right HAL/DRDO will take lots of lots time for AMCA and waste large amount of money , we can use them in other things , we have to buy few 5 Gen planes from other countries under make in india , our Engg will learn from them .
Talk about taking a step backwards. :facepalm:
 

arya

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AMCA TD fabrication EOI is already out. Vendor will be selected by this year end. Tech demonstrators will fly by 2023. Prototype Vehicle phase will start in 2025. IOC for AMCA should be achieved by 2030, albeit with foreign components.
Preliminary Deisgn Review has been completed. Read this:-


Meanwhile, FACS is slated to enter service in 2040. Its a no-brainer that IAF will stick with AMCA.
2040 are you kidding in 2040 every thing will be change we will talk in space war in 2040 .
 

Armand2REP

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AMCA TD fabrication EOI is already out. Vendor will be selected by this year end. Tech demonstrators will fly by 2023. Prototype Vehicle phase will start in 2025. IOC for AMCA should be achieved by 2030, albeit with foreign components.
Preliminary Deisgn Review has been completed. Read this:-

Meanwhile, FACS is slated to enter service in 2040. Its a no-brainer that IAF will stick with AMCA.
That link doesn't alter anything from my link. Your tech demonstrator is set to fly in 2025 same as ours. SCAF will begin replacing Rafale of the Marine National in 2035.

 

Adioz

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2040 are you kidding in 2040 every thing will be change we will talk in space war in 2040 .
Please elaborate. You are not making much sense to me.

Your tech demonstrator is set to fly in 2025 same as ours
No. First prototype vehicle of AMCA will fly in 2025. NGTD-1 and NGTD-2 will fly in 2023 and 2024. Point is, preliminary design for our airframe is already done. We cant dump all that work and join SCAF now. If we collaborate (I am certain we will), then it will be in avionics and engines. But the AMCA will be a distinct aircraft. And by 2035, it will have achieved FOC and would be flying in at least 4 squadrons of IAF.
 

Armand2REP

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No. First prototype vehicle of AMCA will fly in 2025. NGTD-1 and NGTD-2 will fly in 2023 and 2024. Point is, preliminary design for our airframe is already done. We cant dump all that work and join SCAF now. If we collaborate (I am certain we will), then it will be in avionics and engines. But the AMCA will be a distinct aircraft. And by 2035, it will have achieved FOC and would be flying in at least 4 squadrons of IAF.
Your demonstrator will fly in 2025, same as ours which is exactly what I said. If you want to fly a couple of preliminary designs is up to you but our programmes are on similar schedules. If your project doesn't work out you better be ready to join something. The days of expecting DRDO to deliver on time are long over so a backup plan is required. I am not saying don't go for it, just be ready if it doesn't work out on time like you were going to do with FGFA. SCAF would be your FGFA backup plan.
 

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