Did Islam Ruin Afghanistan ?

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bennedose

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So just because we are poor, we have no civilization? Do not have time but will crush your arguments in your laughable post.
I never said anything about poor. I just asked what part of the ancient Indian civilization that people claim was ruined in Afghanistan exists unsullied in Uttar Pradesh today? All this business about "crushing" is nonsense. You seem to want to compete - but that is your problem because the more you get your langoti in a twist the more you will find my views provoking you.
 
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shinoj

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Guys you may have your own views but I do not understand how you can say that a religion can ruin a nation.If Islam had ruined Afghanistan how about places like Turkey,Saudi Arabia etc.These countries are not ruined.Also the European countries like Spain,UK,France,Germany etc have been predominantly Christian.These countries have higher GDP than us.Does that mean Christianity has led to the prosperity of these countries?No,of course not.The people of these countries had been hard working.Also they were lucky that they did not get invaded and their geographic location meant that the flow of technology could reach them earlier than us.On the contrary to these countries there are other christian nations in Africa which are undeveloped.So religion definitely does not play a role in the ruin and destruction of a country.What matters are the nation`s leaders,its people`s hard work and a bit of luck.

(P.S. Do you think our country,despite being a Hindu majority one, can ever progress if it has leaders like Lalu Prasad Yadav etc at its helm?)
Its quite simple. The Question here is "Did Afghanistan got Ruined by Islam"? Yes or No. Dont care about a Turkey,Saudi and so on. Why is everyone so hell-bent on bringing multitude of Topics here.

Why are you not able to answer the simple question here. What makes everyone run around and seek counter example of it? Did India got ruined by Hinduism? Did Turkey or Saudi Got affected by it? Was Christianity the reason of Western Worlds prosperity.

All these counter questions are Non-sense and somehow they Validate the Original Answer that Islam ruined Afghanistan more and more.
 

Peter

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Its quite simple. The Question here is "Did Afghanistan got Ruined by Islam"? Yes or No. Dont care about a Turkey,Saudi and so on. Why is everyone so hell-bent on bringing multitude of Topics here.

Why are you not able to answer the simple question here. What makes everyone run around and seek counter example of it? Did India got ruined by Hinduism? Did Turkey or Saudi Got affected by it? Was Christianity the reason of Western Worlds prosperity.

All these counter questions are Non-sense and somehow they Validate the Original Answer that Islam ruined Afghanistan more and more.
No.The examples validate the fact that a religion cannot destroy and ruin a nation.
 

bennedose

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All these counter questions are Non-sense and somehow they Validate the Original Answer that Islam ruined Afghanistan more and more.
My biggest objection to the topic is the idea that "Afghanistan was ruined" as if everything else was OK. If Islam ruined Afghanistan, it ruined Punjab, Kashmir, Uttar Pradesh and Bihar equally. Afghanistan's further degradation came later. Indian Punjab gained honor because of Sikhs. But UP and Bihar have nothing but ruins of an ancient thriving civilization where leaders and people are unable to regain lost glory. The same is true for Afghanistan in many ways.
 

Bhadra

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Yes it is reflected there too in much subtle way...
And there many stalwarts on IDF who say literature is no reflection of society... still further that. only Persian , Turkish, Arabic, Chinese literature or accounts are historic but not something like Prithviraj Raso ( just an example)... or Shakuntala of Avigyan Shaakuntalam... or Mrichkatikam...

No one qoutes great Bhaskarachyara or Barahamihira as historical evidence... all lick up Al beruni, Firdosi, Fia Hian, Tuen sang... etc etc...


so much inferiority complex...
 

shinoj

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And there many stalwarts on IDF who say literature is no reflection of society... still further that. only Persian , Turkish, Arabic, Chinese literature or accounts are historic but not something like Prithviraj Raso ( just an example)... or Shakuntala of Avigyan Shaakuntalam... or Mrichkatikam...

No one qoutes great Bhaskarachyara or Barahamihira as historical evidence... all lick up Al beruni, Firdosi, Fia Hian, Tuen sang... etc etc...


so much inferiority complex...
Now this is much more like it.
 

shinoj

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No Unity amonsgt the Indians. No Backbone. No Spine at all.. Cannot even accept that Islam Ruined Afghanistan, despite being a Hindu and being a sufferer at the hands of Islam for so many Years.
 

bennedose

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No Unity amonsgt the Indians. No Backbone. No Spine at all.. Cannot even accept that Islam Ruined Afghanistan, despite being a Hindu and being a sufferer at the hands of Islam for so many Years.
You are the one who is cursing Indians without being able to accept that Islam ruined Punjab and vast parts of India in the same way. You are, in my view, trying to isolate the effects of Islam on Afghanistan and wishing away what has happened nearer home, assuming India is your home. Is this your way of being secular?
 

Bhadra

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You think they should rather die and not have any children/future generation in the first place than convert? Seems logical enough:pokerface:
Rajput ladies did commit Jouhar in India for that reason... I hope you will not argue that it is not a historical fact ??
 

Bhadra

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Now this is much more like it.
Pooh Pooh.... That is like me and only me...

You are welcome to join but I do not consider that it is because of Islam that Afghanistan got ruined...

Though I think that Islam has completely ruined Paksiatn...
 

bennedose

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Questions:

Where did the the idea that women should cover their heads and faces as is still done by Hindu women in vast parts of north India originate from?

The idea of honor killings in India, where my sister needs to be killed if she marries outside the community - the idea that honor of the family revolves around the behavior of the women - where did this idea originate from?

When in ancient India did the idea of segregation of men and women start?

When and why did it become bad practice to paint or carve nude humans in India?

Did someone say only Afghanistan was affected and all is well in India - except for lack of unity?
 
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bennedose

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What is the origin of the "mehndi" tradition in Indian weddings and where is the tradition prevalent? Vedic origins can be ascribed to agni and saptapadi in Hindu weddings, but mehndi? Is this a case of reverse cultural osmosis from india or something else?
 
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Peter

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No Unity amonsgt the Indians. No Backbone. No Spine at all.. Cannot even accept that Islam Ruined Afghanistan, despite being a Hindu and being a sufferer at the hands of Islam for so many Years.
Well if you want people here in DFI to accept that Islam ruined Afghansitan why did you title your thread as Did Islam Ruin Afghanistan ?If you are sure that islam has indeed destroyed the Afghans then say so clearly.When you create such a thread people will respond in what they think about the issue.

Btw I am still telling you the thing that a religion cannot ruin a nation.The people of the nation are responsible for it.Islam did not ruin Afghanistan.It was rather a complex combination of factors.Also Afghanistan is slowly becoming a normal state even though it is still Islamic.
 

Pratap

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@Bhadra
Afghanistan got destroyed due to its geopolical location hemmed between major historical cross currents and movements of History. Specially strong cross currents of Mongol Civilisation,
What is "Mongol civilization"? A nomadic group of hordes who did not know either agriculture or writing and were merciless killers and rapists, now become civilization!
 
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Pratap

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@Bhadra

Even Afghans have their own identity but not Pakistan
Utter crap. What is Afghan identity? Pakistan has atleast one group(Punjabi Muslims) who form more than 50 percent of population. Afghanistan is one of the most fake nations in world with speakers of Turkic as well as Iranic languages live.
 
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shinoj

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Questions:

Where did the the idea that women should cover their heads and faces as is still done by Hindu women in vast parts of north India originate from?

The idea of honor killings in India, where my sister needs to be killed if she marries outside the community - the idea that honor of the family revolves around the behavior of the women - where did this idea originate from?

When in ancient India did the idea of segregation of men and women start?

When and why did it become bad practice to paint or carve nude humans in India?

Did someone say only Afghanistan was affected and all is well in India - except for lack of unity?
Thats right. Bad Influences in Indian Community has been started from you guessed right ...
 

Pratap

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@SPIEZ
Had it been the pacifist Buddhists (no offence meant) the whole population could have been wiped out.
I get laughable facts everytime but this is so interesting. The brave, martial Afghans were ruled by Ghazanavids who were Turks. After Mahmud, Ghazanavids were defeated by Seljuks. So you can understand how great these Seljuk turks were. Here is the interesting fact now. The"pacifist Buddhists" under Khitans crushed Seljuks and their Sultan Sanjar so horribly that they could never recover.
Buddhist nations like Sri Lanka and Burma have faced invasions from their big neighbours like China and South India and their resistance is simply remarkable.
 
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shinoj

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What is the origin of the "mehndi" tradition in Indian weddings and where is the tradition prevalent? Vedic origins can be ascribed to agni and saptapadi in Hindu weddings, but mehndi? Is this a case of reverse cultural osmosis from india or something else?
You are wrong here. Mehendi has orignated from Vedic India Itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehndi
 

Pratap

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@bennedose


By the time Afghanistan was overrun by Islamic hordes it was largely Buddhist - so lets quit this nonsense about a great Hindu civilization that was replaced by Islam
Ignorance. There is no population census of that time that we know which group was larger. However, you turned entire chronology upside down. It was in post Gupta age that Hindu civilization got completely entrenched in Afghanistan. Arab authors tell us that people of Kabul and Ghazni did not eat beef. Beef is not anathema to Buddhists so this means that there were more Hindus in those areas than Buddhists.

That great Hindu civilization had already vacated space to Buddhists.
It was other way around. Hindus were more dominating than Buddhists at that time.


The Persian empire had its eyes on "India" right from 1000 BC - but in many old accounts anyone who got up to the Indus was said to have got to India. From Afghanistan invaders repeatedly raped the area that was Pakistan.
In pre Islamic times, invaders came from area beyond Kabul river.


Perhaps "civilization" ended after Ashoka but all the same Afghanistan served as strong base for Islamic kings to come and rape and loot what is now Pakistan.
More BS. The great arts, literature and coins all emerged in these areas after Ashoka died. Show me a single piece of writing from that area before Ashoka. This is downright porn.


The history of Punjab is one of a people who constantly lost all battles and kowtowed to every invader until Ranjit Singh arrived.
Hindu Sahi empire was as much large as Ranjit Singh's excepting Kashmir. It also was more durable and lasted longer than Sikh empire.
The history of Punjab is one of a people who destroyed one of the greatest empires of ancient world, it is a history of a people who migrated to different areas of India and set up great kingdoms. Punjab was on path to invaders so had to suffer so much losses. It is history of clans who survived invasions after invasions.


So the area called Afghanistan has been ruled by the Persian Zoroastrian emperor Darius, later Ashoka and still later Greeks and later the Islamic hordes. Perhaps "civilization" ended after Ashoka but all the same Afghanistan served as strong base for Islamic kings to come and rape and loot what is now Pakistan. Ghazna in Afghanistan was the capital of the Ghaznavids - who ruled up to Lahore - and whose illegitimate children are now Pakistanis who worship them. But Afghanistan was then home to a big empire under the Turkic Islamic hordes. Both the Afghanistan and Pakistan area have only declined as civilizations in the 1300 years after Islam came, but by the same token, Hindus and Buddhists have only been driven away - so saying that Afghanistan got worse after Islam came is a sour grapes statement. The point really is why focus on the decline of Afghanistan when the area called Pakistan were always losers and remain that way even today.
Civilization does not mean wearing lungi and flashing curved blades. It means arts, literature and other such cultural stuff. Disunity in these areas did prove disastrous but their civilization was brilliant than many parts of modern day India.
Entire India has been losers if military defeats matter a lot.

And when you talk of decline in civilization why leave out Uttar Pradesh and Bihar? As if civilization has survived in these states. Someone please point out what parts of the ancient Indian civilization survived untouched in the area called Uttar Pradesh.
UP and Bihar are inhabitated by Indo Aryans following their age old religion, speaking age old languages, writing in their own scripts and being backbone of India.
Do Afghans write in Indic script, follow Hinduism, speak indic languages? You can not see difference between UP and Afghanistan! Such idiocy is not rare these days.
 
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Pratap

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My biggest objection to the topic is the idea that "Afghanistan was ruined" as if everything else was OK. If Islam ruined Afghanistan, it ruined Punjab, Kashmir, Uttar Pradesh and Bihar equally. Afghanistan's further degradation came later. Indian Punjab gained honor because of Sikhs. But UP and Bihar have nothing but ruins of an ancient thriving civilization where leaders and people are unable to regain lost glory. The same is true for Afghanistan in many ways.
The religions, languages , scripts, customs in UP, Bihar are closer to Ancient India than in Punjab so more nonsense from you.
The two primary components of a civilization are religion and language and since vast majority of Bhaiyyas still are Hindu and speak Indo Aryan vernaculars, your whole objection is that of a ignorant.
 
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