China's High Speed Rail Network

[bhramos]

Even though they will be reported in news, if even its not a scandal also,
DNA is best Mumbaikar news paper which reports all International deals including defence deals too.

 

[bhramos]

Even though they will be reported in news, if even its not a scandal also,
DNA is best Mumbaikar news paper which reports all International deals including defence deals too.

 

[bengalraider]

Hundreds of these deals occur on a month basis! China is not India's largest trading partner for nothing..I don't expect any form of media to report on the mundane.

Indian media specializes in reporting on the mundane, read some of our papers you'll get the idea.

 

[Rage]

I thought the Mumbai metro was going to use the Bombardier MOVIA, like the Delhi metro. Can anyone elaborate on the Chinese coaches technology, i for one smell a rat in this deal. Bombardier has started manufacturing state of the art MOVIA subway trains at it's plant in Savli in Gujarat, these must be better than getting subway systems from China.Even Chinese subways in Shenzhen , Guangzhou and shanghai use MOVIA systems.I'm attaching a PDF on Bombardier India for your reference.

The issue is one of capacity, I believe. Bombardier and the Bombardier plant at Savli were expecting a further order for 100 coaches from the Delhi Metro Rail Corp. in 2009, in addition to the 424 coaches previously ordered by them, some of which will be manufactured at the plant in Savli. Bombardier expects to deliver 384 coaches before the Commonwealth Games in Delhi in Oct. 2010, and the balance of the 80 by mid-2011. In the meantime, Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority officials have promised to have the first line of the MMRP : Versova-Andheri-Ghatkopar; Colaba - Bandra – Charkop; Bandra - Kurla – Mankhurd, operational by December-2010, to which end they will need the rolling stock in the city by early 2010.

Given that Bombardier and its plant at Savli have their order books full with the DMRC and its proposed extensions (see below), China's CSR would be the logical other choice [cheap, cost effective and proximate].

I was in Bombay last year and work's going on in full swing. Throwing the city into a maze of chaos and traffic jams where work was progressing (as if we didn't have enuff already).


Bombardier expects order for 100 more coaches from Delhi Metro

Metro will be functional two years before schedule - dnaindia.com


Mumbai Metro and Rail Network

DMRC comissioned and proposed extensions:

Shipment of a Delhi Metro coach being received from Germany

Here's a file foto of work at the Andheri station:

Here's the site at the Ghatkopar station:

Here's the course at the Airport Road Jcn.

And At the Kurla-Andheri road that meets the W Express hwy.

Interestingly, this is not the only tender for rail coaches for the MMRP sought; it is only the first for the first phase of the project. Here's affirmation to that:

The other two phases, to be completed in following years, have evinced interest from a consortium of 20 major companies, including Bombardier:

 

[Rage]

True !However we can make sure that whoever signed this deal and approved it never signs any such deal again(get him/her out of any post with any government agency). this deal has not been reported in Indian news so far that's what makes it even more suspicious.

Hundreds of these deals occur on a month basis! China is not India's largest trading partner for nothing..I don't expect any form of media to report on the mundane.

You are both wrong. Koji, you have no expertise either in the media - or in the mundane for that matter - so you had better keep your parroted $hit about "China being India's largest trading partner" (which is fallacious, by the way) out of it.

From the Business Standard:

From the Hindustan Times:

From the Loksatta, a Marathi-language daily/newspaper:

It reads: Mumbait dhavnaar Chini banaavatichya metro, which essentially translates to: China-made coaches will run in Mumbai.

 

[Rage]

We've discussed this to death on other threads, which seem to always degenerate into a trade flap because you resort to that argument everywhere.

India, EU to resolve bilateral trade differences

I refuse to be drawn into that kind of debate again.

This topic has little or nothing to do with annual bilateral trade. As already expounded upon. So save it for the morrow.

 

[Koji]

We've discussed this to death on other threads, which seem to always degenerate into a trade flap because you resort to that argument everywhere.

India, EU to resolve bilateral trade differences

I refuse to be drawn into that kind of debate again.

This topic has little or nothing to do with annual bilateral trade. As already expounded upon. So save it for the morrow.

These are fiscal numbers from 2008. And I thought rediff was a source not allowed?? Anyways, that is all I have to say about the matter.

 

[Rage]

These are fiscal numbers from 2008. And I thought rediff was a source not allowed?? Anyways, that is all I have to say about the matter.

These are fiscal numbers from 2008-09. And no, they're not from Rediff.

The off-topic posts are going to get deleted; so save the worn-out, hackneyed argument for another, more appropriate place.

 

[proud_hindustani]

That's a good achievement for China.

India also should learn from China.

 

[qilaotou]

I thought the Mumbai metro was going to use the Bombardier MOVIA, like the Delhi metro. Can anyone elaborate on the Chinese coaches technology, i for one smell a rat in this deal. Bombardier has started manufacturing state of the art MOVIA subway trains at it's plant in Savli in Gujarat, these must be better than getting subway systems from China.Even Chinese subways in Shenzhen , Guangzhou and shanghai use MOVIA systems.I'm attaching a PDF on Bombardier India for your reference.

Well well， a good story. I checked Chinese sources about this. In the initial phases of Shanghai and Guangzhou subways all the subway coaches were imported from Germany (It did not mention where those were manufactured. But those trains were very bad in quality from the beginning. Under this contex Chinese government regulated that all trains must be assembled and quality guaranted in China. Bombadier bought the stakes of a joint venture from ADtranz in Changchun. They inked the train deal for the second phase (Line 2). The trains in the third line and the fourth went to joint ventures owned by Siemens and Japanese firms.

Bombadier is a Canadian company that owns Bombadier Transportation in Germany. MOVIA is German tech not Indian.

 

[DMF]

today, the I get news that China made trains are to be shipped to india for the Mumbai metro, the head of the trains are painted with butterfly.

 

[badguy2000]

That's the thing the entire import of subway coaches/trains makes no sense when you have Indians making world-class coaches in Gujarat(albeit Indians with French/swiss technology) , Gujarat is practically next door to Mumbai, someone get the CAG onto this ;this deal needs to be stopped.

cost performance talks there.

CHina's subways are imported ,just because China-made has better cost performance than India-made.

 

[nimo_cn]

today, the I get news that China made trains are to be shipped to india for the Mumbai metro, the head of the trains are painted with butterfly.

It is true, Kind of old news, anyway!

BEIJING: China is set to dispatch 18 high-tech metro trains to Mumbai's new subway network under a USD 110 million contract and the rails would be ready for operation after their trial run in India's financial hub.

The subway trains rolled off the production line on March 20 and would take a month to ship from Shanghai before their trial is launched in Mumbai in May, said Qian Houkuan, Director of Information and Technology at Nanjing Puzhen Rolling Stock Works which manufactured the rails.

The trains are China's first-ever export of A-type subway rails, which are wider than three metres and have greater passenger capacity than other models, the official Xinhua news agency quoted him as saying today.

The trains, with automatic driving systems and maximum speed of 80 km per hour, could operate in temperatures up to 55 degrees Celsius and 100 per cent humidity, Qin said.

Each of their 3.2-metre compartments could carry 390 people, 72 more than the 3-metre A-type trains used in China, he said.

The subway trains were sold to Mumbai at the cost of USD 110 million.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ins-for-Mumbai-Metro-/articleshow/5715846.cms

 

[Martian]

China's Nationwide High Speed Rail Network: Now or Never

Wuhan Station with CRH3C in the foreground and CRH2C in the background

Travellers board a high-speed train which heads to Guangzhou in Wuhan, Hubei province

http://evworld.com/currents.cfm?jid=72

"Comparing Long-Distance High-Speed Rail Routes
Line---------------------------- Distance Travel Time Avg Speed
China: Wuhan-Guangzhou.. 968 km... 2h57........ 328 km/h
Spain: Cordoba-Barcelona.. 966 km.... 4h42........ 206 km/h
France: Lille-Marseille......... 959 km.... 4h40....... 206 km/h
Italy: Turin-Naples............. 900 km.... 5h45....... 157 km/h
USA: Boston-Newport News 1034 km.. 12h35........ 82 km/h

Published: 28-Dec-2009"

The article "China's Fast Track to Development" provides important insights into China's motivation for building a nationwide high-speed rail system. For your convenience, I have itemized the main reasons. (See http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...3879199386.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTTopBucket)

1) "Moving passenger traffic off clogged conventional rail lines will free up room for an explosion of freight traffic."

2) "Increased freight revenue will pay the capital cost of building the new lines."

3) "By reducing the need for airplanes, cars and trucks to carry passengers and freight, the system will yield big savings in energy intensity and carbon emissions."

"Respected transportation economists Richard Gilbert and Anthony Perl reported that electrified high-speed trains traveling on their own right of way are about 9 times more energy-efficient per passenger mile than private automobiles or domestic jet travel (and hence emit about one-ninth as much pollution as air and auto)." See http://www.midwesthsr.org/docs/2009_07_31_Fact_vs._fiction.pdf

4) "Over the next decade, China's Ministry of Railways expects freight carriage to rise 55%, while passenger-miles will double. More miles of track are not a luxury, but a necessity. In addition to the high-speed lines, the ministry plans to lay another 18,000 kilometers of new conventional freight and passenger track by 2020."

5) "In France, Spain or Japan a mile of high-speed track costs triple a conventional mile. But in China, according to World Bank estimates, the cost premium is as low as 20% to 30%. Cheap labor and locally produced equipment help; so does the decision to build much of the network on viaducts, minimizing land acquisition cost. Finally, building an entire network all at once produces massive economies of scale."

6) "This modest cost premium translates into affordable ticket prices—higher than for conventional rail, but lower than for air travel. The average household income in China's 36 biggest cities is now more than $10,000, so tens of millions of Chinese can easily afford high-speed tickets, especially for business trips."

7) "On several recent trips on the Nanjing-Wuhan, Wuhan-Guangzhou and Guangzhou-Shenzhen lines, we found the trains to be about 90% full. The World Bank reckons that in a few years' time the Beijing-Hong Kong line will carry more than 80 million passengers a year, becoming the world's busiest high-speed passenger rail line."

8) "But the really big gain is that by moving most passenger traffic off existing conventional lines, more space is freed up for cargo. China's businesses—ranging from manufacturers to coal mines—have complained for years about the difficulty of securing space on freight trains, which forces them to move a lot of their cargo on more expensive and less efficient trucks. An increase in rail capacity will enable them to put their freight back on trains, generating huge savings. Ton for ton, freight carried by rail costs nearly 70% less than carriage by truck, uses 77% less energy and produces 91% less carbon dioxide emissions."

9) "For one thing, building the network now, when labor costs are still low, is smarter than waiting a decade or two, when higher wages will push the real cost far higher." In my opinion, China has to build a nationwide high-speed rail network now. I don't think labor construction costs will be affordable in another ten to twenty years. Payment for labor is increasing rapidly in China. By the way, Foxconn (e.g. a Taiwanese company) has 800,000 employees in China.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100602-715342.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines
"* JUNE 2, 2010, 8:20 P.M. ET
Foxconn: Production Line Workers In China Get 30% Pay Rise"

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5idy8qjbZZyQsRm8xeB81EdS7rOrwD9G4VRE00
"Honda says Chinese labor dispute has been settled

By CARA ANNA (AP) – 9 hours ago

BEIJING — Honda Motor Co. said a labor dispute at a parts plant that crippled the automaker's production in China has been resolved after a wage increase of 24 percent, and the affected assembly plants would be running again Saturday."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/04/business/global/04pay.html?src=busln
"Beijing to Raise Minimum Wage
By REUTERS
Published: June 3, 2010

BEIJING (Reuters) — Beijing will increase the city's minimum wage by 20 percent, state media reported on Thursday, the latest sign of rising labor costs in the world's third-largest economy."

 

[Oracle]

Very nice pics. Shows how developed China is the Infrastructure way. Very Good. Mate can you post more of China's Infrastructure pics in here. Cities, flyovers, bridges etc.

 

[Martian]

Very nice pics. Shows how developed China is the Infrastructure way. Very Good. Mate can you post more of China's Infrastructure pics in here. Cities, flyovers, bridges etc.

I thought it would be interesting to point out that China has a limited time-window to build an extensive nationwide high-speed rail network. Wage costs for labor are increasing by 20 to 30%. In ten to twenty years, I don't think China can afford to pay those laborers for a grandiose national project.

I selected two pictures to provide an illustration of the magnitude of China's railway building project. Unfortunately, I don't have any more pictures on China's infrastructure.

However, I have a terrific thread with superb pictures of China's oil, gas, and coal industries; lots of gigantic machines. See http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/sh...llion-U.S.-dollars-in-oil-projects-this-month

Don't let the thread title fool you. I used it as a backdrop to discuss the more interesting aspects of China's fossil fuel industry and the incredible technological marvels. If the link doesn't work, you can go to the "China Defense Forum" and click on the thread "China signs $50 billion U.S. dollars in oil projects this month."

 

[Armand2REP]

I thought it would be interesting to point out that China has a limited time-window to build an extensive nationwide high-speed rail network. Wage costs for labor are increasing by 20 to 30%. In ten to twenty years, I don't think China can afford to pay those laborers for a grandiose national project.

Cheap labour still hasn't reduced the cost of building these HSRs. The 1000km of the Wuhan-Guangzhou line costs $17 billion. TGV lines cost $10-15 million per km so French costs are actually lower. You still dig HSR with picks and shovels to give people jobs instead of using excavation equipment like the rest of the world. When you stop building them with sweat and start using your head they will be cheaper to build.

 

[Martian]

Cheap labour still hasn't reduced the cost of building these HSRs. The 1000km of the Wuhan-Guangzhou line costs $17 billion. TGV lines cost $10-15 million per km so French costs are actually lower. You still dig HSR with picks and shovels to give people jobs instead of using excavation equipment like the rest of the world. When you stop building them with sweat and start using your head they will be cheaper to build.

Are you back to troll my threads again? Why do you persist in irritating me with your ignorance? China builds her railroads with machines, including non-high speed rail lines. Do you mind not spewing your garbage in my threads? I don't like it when you keep polluting it with your French propaganda.

"china builds tibet railroad with track laying machine"

 

[Martian]

By the way Armand2REP, it doesn't matter how much you try to talk up France and slander China. Everyone has seen China's spacewalk. Unless you can show a video of a French spacewalk, no one will consider France to be on a par with China.

Chinese Space Walk - 2008

 

[Martian]

http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/...that-is-a-big-lorry-reckons-biglorryblog.html

"Kirow girder carriers working in China on a high-speed rail link. Now that IS a big lorry, reckons Biglorryblog!

By BigLorryBlog on April 26, 2008 9:12 PM

Where would Biglorryblog be without his beloved army of readers? And that includes Dean Whitmore, who's sent me these fantastic pictures of wonderful Kirow girder carriers. Anyway I'll let Dean tell you all about it as he's sent me an e-mail to go with them;" Hello Brian, As a keen reader of your blog I thought you and your readers may be interested in the three photos attached."

"They show a specialised heavy bridge girder transporter. The '900' on the front refers to its maximum payload of 900 tonnes. In this shot it's half loaded[!] with a 50m girder that weighs in at a mere 450 tonnes...." I like the 'mere' bit, nice touch---anyway Dean goes on to say:

"I took the picture in China where I am working on the construction of the new High Speed Railway network. As you will see in the third photograph the girders are used to build the lines' viaducts. I don't know anything else of the provenance of these Kirow machines---maybe other readers will be able to add more information if you decide to publish the pictures."

Well Dean, as you'd expect from Biglorryblog I've done a lot of extensive research (OK I admit it I just googled 'Kirow') but I've managed to find a bit about them so click through here to find out what I came up with--and a picture of a rather weird 'slag carrier'!

Well for a start Kirow looks to be a crane manufacturer first and foremost, not least mobile slewing cranes for railway operations as well as container terminals etc.

It's based in Leipzig in Germany and it appears to be part of a triumvirateof companies including Kirow, Kocks and KE Kranbau Eberswalde--- apparently these three companies have a range complimentary products which cover a broad range of markets. You can see more of their products by clicking on this link.

Meanwhile, here's a picture from their website of that slag carrier---and boy does it look weird...!And my thanks to Dean for starting the ball rolling on this topic---and if you've any more shots of interest Dean (including Chinese or European trucks working on the project) then we'd love to see them on BLB!"