Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark I

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by nitesh, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. shuvo@y2k10

    [email protected] Senior Member Senior Member

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    The picture of early arjun prototype isn't very clear. But in my opinion this is the frontal view of the prototype whose side view was shown previously:
    mM8XOQA.jpg 20171123115809.jpg

    In other words both seems is the same tank.
    DRDO it seems experimented with 2-3 types of turret design including a semi -sloped one and then on recommendation of the army finally settled for the boxy type turret design which bears a close resemblance with Leopard 2a4. However unlike the leopard whose subsequent versions 2a5 and 2a6 featured frontal arrow shaped wedged shaped turret, arjun continues with the boxy type turret design of the mk1 with ERA panels attached in the frontal 60 degree giving it a T-90 type turret profile .
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
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  2. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers Regular Member

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  3. VIP

    VIP Ultra Nationalist Senior Member

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    Thier hatred is amazing. Look at the delusion they live in. From where are those members exactly?
     
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  4. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers Regular Member

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    Don't know, just found that forum today.

    Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk
     
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  5. shuvo@y2k10

    [email protected] Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ignore those idiots. We as Indian's tend to get carried away by emotions which casts aspersions on our indegeneous abilities. I am following the arjun mbt programme for the last 10-12 years on the net and have seen these type of idiots all around.
    The fact of the matter is :
    1. Foreign products (rifles, planes, tanks) tend to fail in trials in Indian conditions and fall way short of the IA GSQR.
    2. Arjun mbt is the only MBT which is desdigned as per GSQR.
    3. Arjun MBT mk 2 today is as good as its western counterparts if not better.
    4. Comparitive trials with Arjun mbt with FRCV counterparts in Indian conditions will most likely result in the clear victory of Arjun. Remember the T-90 vs Arjun trials just 10 years ago.
    5. The superiority of Arjun is also certified by Israeli experts (who worked on Merkava) as third party auditors.
    6. Most of the FRCV RFI parameters including 1200 mm+ frontal armour protection is already acheived in Arjun mk 2.
    7. Developement of 1500HP engine is well on track(I have previously posted some info on this based on CVRDE publications).
    8. Developement of 120 mm smoothbore is also on track.

    Hence it is needless to assume that Arjun Mbt is a world beater in the hands of IA and whatever the pakis and chinkis can throw at it including Al-khalid, t-80,type 96,type 99m or even imported M1A2 from USA in the hands of pakis, the arjun mbt will emerge as the winner.
     
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  6. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    Its amazing that FRCV want with all the requirements of GSQR for Arjun in 48 tons +- 15% which is Arjun MK1 weight class, best part T90s (72BU) dont fulfill that, still T-72(s) in service and arjun only in token numbers.
     
  7. darshan978

    darshan978 Regular Member

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    ridiculous bashing forum so funny
     
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  8. Bhumihar

    Bhumihar Jako Rakhe Saiyan Mar Sake Na Koi Senior Member

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    Just Edgy teenage white cuckolds who can't deal with the fact that they r gonna be extinct.
     
  9. VIP

    VIP Ultra Nationalist Senior Member

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    They have dedicated threads only to bash particular defence product. They just put a point and bash it like," you kidding me, how can they use this in Arjun" without backing up with facts, lies and only lies. They want to form a team to do same bashing here on DFI. Please aholes, do that, we are waiting for you.
     
  10. binayak95

    binayak95 Regular Member

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    Don't bother reading such biased forums. Honestly, the same westerners scoffed and mocked our space program and missile program. Now look at us, and them.

    They (W. Europe) are struggling to find funds to maintain their militaries. UK is scrapping its Amphib forces, while no RN ship is on op deployment at the moment.

    They look to us to evacuate their citizens from Yemen, and turn around and call our systems defunct and worthless.

    Next time a war breaks out, we'll see who does better.

    PS: professional soldiers from all across the Western nations know and understand the significant capabilities that the Indian military possesses. Why do you think so the JMSDF and the USN conduct joint ASW ex with us, and the Australians can't wait to jump in as well.
     
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  11. Flame Thrower

    Flame Thrower Senior Member Senior Member

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    Folks, I did go through the thread and have few questions...

    I am a layman and please guide me

    One of the most puzzling things is about APFSDS rounds. In the forum, they have discussed about DRDO's APFSDS rounds... Our rounds have the capability to penetration 300mm armor at 2km. We don't know that penetration of 300mm armor is with ERA or Without ERA. I don't think this penetration is sufficient to destroy enemy tanks. Moreover, we don't have any smooth bore gun to test sabot rounds, then how did we get the test results for our sabot rounds.

    Thanks in advance
     
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  12. shuvo@y2k10

    [email protected] Senior Member Senior Member

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    300 mm APFDS was a thing of the past. 600 mm is inducted since 2013 and work is on to develop 650 mm+.
    Also in a problem statement army has released requirement of 800 mm+ for T-72 tank which will form a requirement of FRCV and it will be worked on in DMRL as we speak.
    DMRL is currently developing several heavy tungsten alloys WHA through powder metallurgy routes to improve its penetration capabilities and also researching on introducing self sharpening capabilities in tungsten by optimising the alloy composition. This will make it at par with advanced DU based rounds.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
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  13. Vorschlaghammer

    Vorschlaghammer Regular Member

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    About FSAPDS penetration figures, they're generally against pure RHA plates. ERA and Composite armor can have rough RHA "equivalent" values. Like if a armored vehicle has 150mm base armor, and on top of that 100mm equivalent of composite arrays and 50mm equivalent of ERA arrays, then it is said to be able to resist 300mm of penetration.

    But since there are different types of anti tank ammo, and even a single type doesn't have the same dynamics in the middle of ERA explosion or rubber/ceramic layer in Composite plates, as it has in steel, this method of extracting equivalency isn't exactly scientifically accurate.
     
  14. Shaitan

    Shaitan Zandu balm all day Senior Member

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    ARRV


    =========================================
     
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  15. Shaitan

    Shaitan Zandu balm all day Senior Member

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    [​IMG]

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  16. Shaitan

    Shaitan Zandu balm all day Senior Member

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    Arjun tank in KK range sector
     
  17. WolfPack86

    WolfPack86 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Arjun tank in exercise in desert.
     
  18. tejas warrior

    tejas warrior Senior Member Senior Member

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    Why The Army's Arjun Tank May Be Its Best Bet Yet

    Vishnu Som

    For decades, the made-in-India Arjun tank was seen as an also-ran, a noble Indian effort but one that fell short of the Army's expectations. Yes, the Army would acquire the Arjun in limited numbers but by no means would it be a replacement for the Russian-built T-72 or T-90, the mainstay of the Army's armoured formations. The numbers tell the story - more than 1,200 T-90 tanks are in service with the Army presently. By the time the last T-90s roll in, India will end up operating more than 2000 of the tanks. By contrast, the Army employs only 124 Arjun tanks in just two of its 67 Armoured regiments.

    Does that mean that the Arjun is a bad tank? It really depends who you ask. For years, cherry-picked data on the Arjun tank's faults seemed to highlight a series of seemingly insurmountable obstacles - the tank was too heavy, it wasn't reliable and it couldn't fire an anti-tank missile. This is all true, but was this reason enough to stifle the growth of the indigenously built tank?

    [​IMG]

    Arjun tanks of the Army's 43 Armoured Regiment are a part of RAPID or Reorganised Army Plains Infantry Division.

    To get a clear idea, I travelled to the Army's 43 Armoured Regiment in Jaisalmer armed with a few facts that the Army doesn't usually want to talk about. In 2010, in comparative trials between the Arjun and the T-90, not only did the Arjun hold its own, it was actually better in some respects than the Russian tank. In exercises lasting 96 hours, the Arjun and the T-90 faced off on 20 key operational parameters. Key among them were mobility, loading the tank with ammunition, tactical manoeuvres and the most significant of all, firing at the Army's Mahajan ranges in Rajasthan. The Arjun was found to be comparable to the T-90 in almost all respects and better in aspects of mobility - aided in no small measure by its German-made 1,400 horsepower engine which is significantly more powerful than the powerpack employed on the T-90.

    The invitation to visit the Arjun tank formation was unexpected. For years, I had made requests to visit an Arjun regiment only to be denied permission by Army Headquarters, worried about a possible controversy if 'the true story' of the Arjun were to emerge. There were some valid reasons for this concern. For decades, the Army has successfully operated the T-72 tank and the T-90, now being acquired, is based on this tank. Acquisition of the Arjun would result in a logistics nightmare since it has an entirely different supply chain of components. What's more, the Arjun, for decades, was a tank seemingly always in the process of being developed. Tired of waiting for its development cycle to end, and worried about the depleting strength of its tank units, the Army pushed for the Russian tanks and eventually got them.

    [​IMG]
    Two Army Armoured Regiments deploy the Arjun tank.

    What many hadn't catered for was the day when the production version of the Arjun, the Arjun Mk 1 not only starting exhibiting qualities of a genuine world beater but also seemed to have overcome many of its key problem areas. For starters - its weight. At 58.5 tonnes, the Arjun is among the heaviest tanks in the world, difficult to transport by rail and difficult to operate in areas where existing bridges and culverts could not handle its bulk. But today, in 2018, most of these problems have been resolved - an indigenously built bridge-layer, the Sarvatra, has been designed, from its inception, with the Arjun tank in mind - and can handle the weight of the tank with ease. The Sarvatra has been trial evaluated by 2 Arjun regiments and is in the process of induction. The Railways have deployed a type of bogey called BFAT (Bogey Flat Arjun Type) designed to transport the tank to areas where it may need to be operationally deployed. What's more, despite its weight, the nominal ground pressure of the tank or kilos per square centimeter, is comparable with any modern tank.

    Neither does the actual fighting ability of the Arjun Mk 1 fall short of tanks of its generation - A French built thermal imaging sight (which allows operations in pitch darkness) allows the detection of targets 5 kms away, recognition at 3 kms and identification 2 kilometres away.
    Ads by ZINC

    [​IMG]
    Arjun tank commander's position with gunners position below.

    Any enemy tank can be taken out at a range of 3 kilometres through the Arjun's 120 mm main gun, an entirely indigenous effort. The tank fires 2 kinds of shells - APFSDS (Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot) which can breach the armour of enemy tanks and HESH (High Explosive Squash Head) rounds meant to take on 'softer' targets including armoured personnel carriers or infantry bunkers. The accuracy of the system is such that 80 per cent of all targets are taken out with the first shell that is fired even when the tank is on the move - this compares favourably with any tank in the world. Key to ensuring this hit-rate is the Arjun suspension. An indigenous hydro-pneumatic unit, the suspension lets the Arjun glide over undulating cross-country terrain at 40 kilometres per hour while ensuring that the gun is stable enough to fire accurately.

    What the Arjun Mk 1 lacks is an anti tank guided missile and new generation Explosive Reactive Armour, designed to defeat incoming missiles. It also lacks electronic countermeasures designed to spook enemy missiles once they have been launched.

    8 Comments
    But here too, there are solutions - there is a new Arjun tank, its called the Arjun Mark 2, and its better than the existing tank in just about every critical parameter. Unveiled a few years ago, the Arjun Mk 2 incorporates 70 changes demanded by the Army. Its laser warning control system detects a missile homing in on the Arjun and fires aerosol grenades to confuse the incoming missile's seeker head. The tank is fitted with new Explosive Reactive Armour that the Mark 1 lacks and features a remote control weapon system - an externally mounted gun designed to take on helicopters and drones. It also has a new integrated fire control system with an automatic target tracker, all systems which are designed to make the Arjun Mk 2's weapon system more accurate than its predecessor. Unfortunately, the Israeli made LAHAT missile meant to be fired through the tank's main gun failed its tests - it could not engage targets at ranges less than 1.2 kilometres with the precision that the Army required, a problem more to do with the operational philosophy of the missile in Israeli service. It turns out that the Israeli Army usually does not use anti-tank missiles at short ranges preferring to use the tank's primary weapon, its kinetic energy shells which are both faster and more lethal than anti-tank missiles in a close-range duel between tanks. India has since decided to built its own anti-tank missile.

    [​IMG]
    The Arjun project had to overcome adverse commentary from groups more impressed by foreign wares.

    There are interesting similarities between the Arjun project and the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft - both the Tejas and the Arjun have had protracted development phases - having to overcoming not just technical challenges in development but also adverse commentary from groups more impressed by foreign wares. Both have now emerged as very competent platforms at a time when Make in India is one of the government's flagship programmes.

    Last month, in a clear signal that it had not lost hope in the Tejas, the government paved the way for the manufacture of 83 Tejas Mk-1A fighters in a deal likely to be worth close to Rs.60,000 crores. In September, the new Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman visited 43 Armoured Regiment to get a first hand look at the Arjun tank. A month later, she visited the Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment in Chennai where the tank was developed - signals which some say are an indicator that the Arjun main battle tank's best days are yet to come.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  19. undeadmyrmidon

    undeadmyrmidon Regular Member

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    Unbelievable! Liberandus are actually promoting indigenous equipment! What happened? Hafta now being paid by GoI.
     
  20. tejas warrior

    tejas warrior Senior Member Senior Member

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    Hafta nahi Danda !!

    Possibly Govt is tighting some screws.
     

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