Army may scrap FMBT and focus on Arjun

[arunpat]

Broadsword: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build successive models of the Arjun


Guys look at this news from Broadsword

 

[arunpat]

Re: Army scuttles Arjun trials to push through T-90 purchase

Good news for Arjun lovers

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Army scuttles Arjun trials to push through T-90 purchase

Broadsword: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build successive models of the Arjun


Guys look at this news from Broadsword

Finally some sense had prevailed.

Why build an entirely new tank, when a lot of the technology (acquired capability) can be reused? This is more-so, because:

Finally, the DGMF believes that there are no recent breakthrough technologies in armoured vehicle design, which eliminates the logic for building an entirely new tank.

Also, looks like people have realized you cannot have a cell phone with a 21" plasma screen.

Says a key general: "All contemporary three-man-crew tanks weigh 50-tonnes, like those being built by South Korea, Turkey and Japan. Adding a fourth crew member also adds roughly 10-tonnes of weight, due to increase in the tank size and weight of armour. But we were asking for a 50-tonne FMBT that would have a four-man crew. It just didn't add up."

 

[sasi]

Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on Arjun

Broadsword: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build successive models of the Arjun
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Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build successive models of the Arjun
The indigenous project to build a Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT) is being quietly buried by the army. Instead, the army's tankdirectorate has proposed keeping faith with the home grown Arjun tank, while incrementally improving it into the future backbone of the army's strike forces.
Senior army sources tell Business Standard that the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), which overseesthe army's tank force, has formally proposed that the Arjun be gradually improved through successive models --- Mark II, Mark III, Mark IV and so on --- rather than attempting a major technological leap into the unknown, which is what the FMBT would be.
On Dec 06, 2010, Defence Minister AK Antony had informed parliament that the "FMBT is likely to be developed by the year 2020." He said the army had already conceptualised its requirements and the DRDO was carrying out a feasibilitystudy.
Now, by consensus between the DRDO and the DGMF, the future of indigenous tank buildingis to flow from the Arjun. Two Arjun regiments, consisting of128 tanks, are already in frontline service. Anda Mark II version of the Arjun is undergoing trials in Rajasthan. The army has committed to buying 118 Arjun Mark II tanks after trials are successfully concluded.
These orders for just 246 Arjuns are insignificant, complains a senior DRDO official, given that the army fields about 4000 tanks. To evolve the Arjun through successive models, the armywould have to operate the tank in larger numbers and cooperate closely with the DRDO. This, says the DRDO official, would require a mindshift amongst senior army generals who tend to favour imports.
Three important realizations drive the DGMF's new proposal. Firstly, there is growing acceptance of the Arjun, after its strong performance in field trials. Secondly, the need for an industrial "eco-structure" for providing spares and maintenance backup forthe Arjuns that are already operating. This would come up only if a viable number of tanks are in service. Finally, the DGMF believes that there are no recent breakthrough technologies in armoured vehicle design, which eliminatesthe logic for building an entirely new tank.
This DGMF decision not to develop an FMBT stems fromthe difficulty it faced in drawing up specifications forthe new tank. A key hurdle was in reconciling the need for a four-man tank crew (like the Arjun, and unlike Russian tanks that have a three-man crew) with the simultaneous wish for a lighter tank that weighed notmore than 50-tonnes. The 60-tonne-plus Arjun has been criticised as too heavy.
Says a key general: "All contemporary three-man-crew tanks weigh 50-tonnes, like those being built by South Korea, Turkeyand Japan. Adding a fourth crew member also adds roughly 10-tonnes of weight,due to increase in the tank size and weight of armour. But we were asking for a 50-tonne FMBT that would have a four-man crew. It just didn't add up."
Meanwhile, Israel Military Industries (IMI), which provides consultancy to the DRDO on tank design, has advised that the Arjun could be gradually pared down to below 60 tonnes, from the 65tonnes of the current Arjun Mark II.
In a 2008 seminar, organizedby the DGMF, Israeli Major General Yossi Ben-Hanan --- an acclaimed tank designer who fathered Israel's successful Merkava tank --- told an attentive audience that tank design is evolutionary, each design building upon the previous one. The Israelis began designing their Merkava Mark-1 MBT in 1970; today they have the world class Merkava Mark-4.
The DGMF's proposal to scrap the FMBT indicates that it has bought into the concept of evolutionary development. The ArjunMark II, which is currently undergoing field trials in Rajasthan,has 79 improvements over the Mark I that is in service. These include: the ability to fire an anti-tank guidedmissile (ATGM); a panoramic electro-optical sight for the commander; an improved suspension; and an auxiliary generator for powering the Arjun's electricals when the main engine isnot running.
The army has not respondedto an emailed request for comments for this article.
_

 

[bengalraider]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

@sasi- why do we have a pic of the T-90MS here?
Anyhoo great move by the army, we should use the ARJUN as a common platform and build our future armor corps around different Vehicles built upon the same platform. a tank, a heavy APC, a heavy IFV, an ARV, an ARLV , a tracked platform for aakash, a tracked Brahmos launcher, a tracked TOS-1 type battlefield cleanser etc etc

 

[Singh]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

Weren't we supposed to collaborate with Russia in their FMBT ?

 

[sayareakd]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

looks like common sense privalled at least this time. It must be heard decision with all those middle men with big suitcases.
Now is good time for stating of T90MS trial with Arjun MK-2.

 

[bose]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

How about Arjun Mark-III with a 155 mm smooth bore gun and capable of firing a battle field sub kiloton nukes ??

 

[sayareakd]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

we also have to make sure that for this lolipop that 10,000 crore deal does not fall without trial.

 

[sayareakd]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

it has also come to my mind that after cancellation of FMBT by Russia, despite the fact that project was kept alive with private money(with hope that R&D will be paid by India just like for MKIs), IA has taken its time to realised what mess it was in, if they go by Russian way. Therefore thia decision.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

@sasi- why do we have a pic of the T-90MS here?

I don't blame @sasi much. He put that picture because Ajai Shukla put the same picture with his article.

Broadsword: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build successive models of the Arjun

 

[cobra commando]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

:crusin5: recious:

 

[bengalraider]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

How about Arjun Mark-III with a 155 mm smooth bore gun and capable of firing a battle field sub kiloton nukes ??

bad idea mate!
that would mean the deployment of a tank brigade could push the nuclear threshold over the edge!

 

[Patriot]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

it has also come to my mind that after cancellation of FMBT by Russia, despite the fact that project was kept alive with private money(with hope that R&D will be paid by India just like for MKIs), IA has taken its time to realised what mess it was in, if they go by Russian way. Therefore thia decision.

To add IA ran out of options to play gimmicks against Arjun [ The Invincible ].

 

[p2prada]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

Weren't we supposed to collaborate with Russia in their FMBT ?

No. The Russians have progressed far ahead with their FMBT program. They are planning on prototype testing in 2013 and induction in 2015.

So, as usual this tank will be available by 2020 for export. Tank development is cheap anyway, so they won't bother about JVs here.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

Anyhoo great move by the army, we should use the ARJUN as a common platform and build our future armor corps around different Vehicles built upon the same platform. a tank, a heavy APC, a heavy IFV, an ARV, an ARLV , a tracked platform for aakash, a tracked Brahmos launcher, a tracked TOS-1 type battlefield cleanser etc etc

Best to wait and watch the Russian plans for a UCP, then we can initiate one if the Russian model is a success. Ukranians are also planning something similar on their existing designs.

Anyway, we already have different plans for IFVs and the like in the FICV program. So, this seems to be chugging along well enough from what we saw at the defence expo.

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

Oh please scrap this arjun program
.it has no side armour plate.It is too heavy.
CVRDE has no experience.
We should not induct arjun because it is a 60 ton heavy tank that sinks in the punjab fields.
Many nations have cancelled duds like arjun:drunk:
My god there are so many accusations on arjun by IIr and DDm.Now what will they do?

 

[bose]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

bad idea mate!
that would mean the deployment of a tank brigade could push the nuclear threshold over the edge!

Brother, our enemy have already gone overdrive for such weapon systems... not sure what we are planning to counter them...

 

[sathya]

Re: Army proposes to scrap Future Main Battle Tank: instead build on A

its a nice move by Army, to stop DRDO from poking its nose into tank imports.

Now they can import tanks in thousands , buy Arjun in hundreds ..

Further tailored tank for our requirements wont even be conceptualized..

ARJUN 2, 3 ..are all ok.. good.

why not light tank ? for north & east..


I SUPPORT FMBT DESIGNING ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun is a proved design, And its evolving into more improved version as per need..

Its logical to work on something you know and improve it rather start from beginning..