AH-64E Apache attack helicopter

[Kunal Biswas]

AH-64D Foreign Military Sale To India

India – Support for Direct Commercial Sale of AH-64D Block III APACHE Helicopters WASHINGTON, December 27, 2010 – The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress on December 22 of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of India of various engines, equipment,weapons, training, parts and logistical support for a possible Direct Commercial Sale of 22 AH-64D Block III Apache helicopters. The complete package is worth approximately $1.4 billion.The Government of India has requested proposals from several foreign suppliers, including the United States, to provide the next generation attack helicopter for the Indian Air Force. In this competition, the Government ofIndia has yet to select the Boeing-United States Army proposal. This notification is being made in advance so that, in the event that the Boeing- U.S. Army proposal is selected, the United States might move as quickly as possible to implement the sale. If the Government of India selects the Boeing-U.S. Army proposal, the Government of India will request a possible sale of 50 T700-GE-701D engines, 12 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars, 12 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers, 812 AGM-114L-3 HELLFIRE LONGBOWmissiles, 542 AGM-114R-3 HELLFIRE II missiles, 245 STINGER Block I-92H missiles, and 23 ModernizedTarget Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensors, rockets, training and dummy missiles, 30mm ammunition, transponders, simulators, global positioning system/inertial navigation systems, communicationequipment, spare and repair parts; tools and test equipment, support equipment, repair and return support,personnel training and training equipment; publications and technical documentation, U.S. Government andcontractor engineering and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistics support to beprovided in conjunction with a proposed direct commercial sale of 22 AH-64D Block III APACHE Helicopters.
The estimated cost is $1.4 billion.

http://www.dsca.osd.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2010/India_10-62.pdf

 

[Kunal Biswas]

22 AH-64D Block III sale Consist of:

50 T700-GE-701D engines, 12 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars..

12 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers..
812 AGM-114L-3 HELLFIRE LONGBOW missiles..
542 AGM-114R-3 HELLFIRE II missiles..
245 STINGER Block I-92H missiles..
23 Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensors
30mm ammunition


I love u LCH! till you induce, we will play with Apaches..
Bye-Bye Mi-35 we will miss you!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Note only 12 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars in 22 no of helicopters..

 

[utubekhiladi]

what are other strings and conditions attached?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

what are other strings and conditions attached?

I hope not..

Only 22 tells me replacement of aging MI-35 over western front..

Also this should be noted that this is not a finalized sale and I don't mean it has to be approved by congress first. This was only announced to pave the way for a quick purchase by India should they decide on the AH-64 over competition. This is an incentive to India as they will know they wont need to face Congressional bureaucracy.

 

[utubekhiladi]

do LCH and dhruv have Fire Control Radars?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

do LCH and dhruv have Fire Control Radars?

No,
Only Apache have operational and combat tested Radar guided ATGMs..

 

[Yusuf]

Saw this coming long back. Tenders cancelled, delays and boom we have and FMS. Not a bad thing at all this mean machine. Rugged and proven. Indian army will only benefit.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

One question I have is why are we paying 1.4 billion for 22 helicopters when Apaches fly away price fully loaded is 20 million each?????

22x20=440 million where is the other 1 billion going??? A few hundred stingers and hellfires are not worth that much???

 

[bharadwaj]

^^^^I think that this deal will include the Logistical support,pilot training,ammo and the government of U.S commission.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

^^^^I think that this deal will include the Logistical support,pilot training,ammo and the government of U.S commission.

possibly or the number being reported is deliberately wrong??

 

[bharadwaj]

^^^^^^^^^^^^I dont think so because in our earlier deal(C-17) with the Americans,they quoted a much higher price for the 10 C-17's even though the unit price was less.So I think that this deal can also be considered as a "PACKAGE" which will be more economical to us as the numbers increase........The Boeing website quotes a price of 2.5 billion dollars for 10 c-17 aircraft to the USAF whereas our C-17's would cost us over 4billion$.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I wonder if we will still go with LAHAT and HELINA for LCH after getting these HELLFIRES????

 

[LETHALFORCE]

^^^^^^^^^^^^I dont think so because in our earlier deal(C-17) with the Americans,they quoted a much higher price for the 10 C-17's even though the unit price was less.So I think that this deal can also be considered as a "PACKAGE" which will be more economical to us as the numbers increase........The Boeing website quotes a price of 2.5 billion dollars for 10 c-17 aircraft to the USAF whereas our C-17's would cost us over 4billion$.

yes I remember that and I never accepted that reason, I will remain hopeful that the numbers are being underreported.

 

[bharadwaj]

The Americans will cry foul if we integrate their Hellfire missile into our LCH,We should stick with HELINag.It is said to have guidance systems which includes identification of the type of target when the target is near,it would have very good accuracy and it would be difficult to fool......

 

[LETHALFORCE]

http://defense-update.com/wp/20101229_india_apache.html

U.S. Congress Asked to Pre-Approve Apache Block III Sale to India

India is interested in buying 22 AH-64D Block III APACHE Helicopters from the USA. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency has notified Congress on a possible Foreign Military Sale of these helicopters, as part of a package worth about US$1.4 billion. The Indians are evaluating the Block III Apache among several other options for the Air Forces' next generation attack helicopter. The Indians are also considering the Russian Mil-28N Havoc as an alternative replacement for the Indian Air Force's Mi-25s. The domestically developed Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) is not an alternative for this program. The Eurocopter Tiger and AgustaWestland A129 Mangusta have been eliminated from the competition at an earlier stage.


Boeing has responded to an Indian Air Force Request for Proposal offering the Apache Block III. The Indian Air Force has already conducted field trials for these helicopters in July 2010. The testing has taken place in the Thar Desert in the northwest and will also happen near the Himalayan town of Ladakh in Indian-controlled Kashmir. Those sites represent the extremes the air force could find itself operating in. The Russian helicopter has not yet been cleared for testing in India. While India has not decided about the type of helicopters they will buy, Boeing and the Pentagon are requesting Congress approval in advance of a potential sale to prevent export limitation issues.

The package will include 12 AN/APG-78 Longbow Fire Control Radars, 12 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers, 812 AGM-114L-3 HELLFIRE LONGBOW missiles, 542 AGM-114R-3 HELLFIRE II missiles, 245 STINGER Block I-92H missiles, and 23 Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensors, rockets.

 

[Rahul Singh]

LCH and Apache have same range(CR) and same rate of climb. The minor differences are because of longbow radar and combat payload. Radar is something LCH can also have in future. So in spite of Apache and LCH belonging to two separate weight class, at any given time three LCHs can substitute two Apaches combat payload wise. And If IAF sends three LCHs on for every two Apaches then there will be hardly any difference as far as threat tackling is concerned.

Since point here is to buy stop gap i wonder will they be able to enter service even by 2012 and what's the point at all in inducting them by 2012 when LCH will be ready? May be IAF reconsiders its decision and save some money.

 

[sandeepdg]

@ Rahul,

Yeah thats a good point, mate. An AH-64D is roughly twice the weight of that of an LCH with similar range (actually AH-64D has a range of around 500 km with the Longbow radar, whereas LCH's range is approx. 700 kms.). So, approximately speaking, 1 AH-64D equals roughly 2 LCHs considering the combat payload. But, I think buying just 22 AH-64D won't harm the LCH as there are plans for inducting 180 of them combined with the Army and the IAF. I think they are buying it mainly because of the Longbow radar.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...or-attack-copter-deal/articleshow/7300626.cms

US now sets eye on $1.4bn contract for attack copter deal

NEW DELHI: Having already bagged some mega defence deals, the US now seems quite smug about cornering an even greater share of the lucrative Indian arms market despite the strong presence here of traditional military suppliers like Russia and Israel.

The growing American confidence can be gauged from the fact that though the field trial evaluation process for acquiring 22 heavy-duty attack helicopters for IAF is still in progress, the US Congress has already been notified by the Obama administration about the impending $1.4 billion contract.

Interestingly, the final battle for the attack helicopters or gunships is now down to just the two erstwhile Cold War rivals, US and Russia, with Boeing's AH-64D Apache Longbow pitted against the Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant's Mi-28 Havoc.

"We are still evaluating the two helicopters (Apache and Havoc) in contention...the final selection will take some time,'' said a senior IAF officer.

But that has not stopped the US Defence Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) from notifying its Congress, even though it acknowledges India ''is yet to select the Boeing-US Army proposal... This notification is being made in advance so that, in the event that the proposal is selected, the US may move as quickly as possible to implement the sale."

The notification even lists out what India ''will request'' as part of the ''complete package'' worth around $1.4 billion. Apart from the 22 Apaches, it includes 812 AGM-114L-3 Hellfire Longbow missiles, 542 AGM-114R-3 Hellfire-II missiles, 245 Stinger Block I-92H missiles, 12 AN/APG-78 fire-control radars and the like.

Holding the "proposed sale" will strengthen the Indo-US strategic relationship, the notification says the Apaches "will improve India's capability to strengthen its homeland defence and deter regional threats".

 

[Yusuf]

There sure must be inside news with the US about the deal. They want to make sure the deliveries start as soon as they receive the go....