Why some Indians don't accept Roma

[Soul83]

Because it threatens their self image and their colonial mentality which they inherited from european overlords. Roma were singled out for their race and their dark skin, they are most often made fun of because of their dark skin a english proverb says "if gypsies washed themselfes they long ago would have lost their dark skin" but indians love white skin (fair and lovely) and they see themselfes as white and caucasian and aryan because the british declared some indians as such to divide and conquer india. Indians have the self-image that they are white but gypsies were singled out for being black but indians dont like being compared to gypsies. Indians would say that gypsies are southindians or only 1% indian and nothing indian really etc. To make them as less indian as possible, they dont want to help gypsies it threatens their self perception. Also because gypsies are poor and indians are elitist, they like only people with university degrees etc.

 

[Simple_Guy]

India can only take economic measures against European countries that are oppressing their Roma citizens.

In ancient times India gave refuge to Parsis and Jews who were oppressed by Islamic countries. In modern times India gives refuge to millions of Tibetans.

Don't rely on cock-and-bull European theories on "aryans" or "roma migration". They are outdated.

Myths and Facts about Roma

The whole hypothesis regarding their alleged Indo-European ethnicity is founded on a sole thing: the Romany language. Such theory does not take account of other more important cultural facts and evidences that show that Roma have nothing in common with Indian peoples.

Only a religious minority may emigrate en-masse from a land in which most inhabitants are of their same ethnic stock.

 

[Ashutosh Lokhande]

If you really think what you wrote then you have no idea about us.

 

[Soul83]

India can only take economic measures against European countries that are oppressing their Roma citizens.

In ancient times India gave refuge to Parsis and Jews who were oppressed by Islamic countries. In modern times India gives refuge to millions of Tibetans.

Don't rely on cock-and-bull European theories on "aryans" or "roma migration". They are outdated.

Myths and Facts about Roma

that site is a myth site, fairy tales that roma are jews, i think it is even written by some roma, but it is not the truth. well we will never the absolute truth but anthropological, linguistic and genetical evidence points to roma as being from southasia and it makes sense to me, because they look like they are.

those are a few roma activists exactly from my ancestral town in serbia (i live since 1990 in austria but im from serbia). they are obviously not jewish or european

 

[Ashutosh Lokhande]

Dude whats your problem?
what you expect or want from us?

 

[Eesh]

Dude, what are your parameters of acceptance?

There is nothing special in Romas to reject them. Now tell about acceptance part. Be precise and concise and itemised.

 

[parijataka]

Hmm...looking at the skin colour of Romas they are definitely paler than most Indians. Plus the average Indian on the street is unaware of the existence of of Romas.

As earlier posters pointed out, not clear what you are getting at with this thread !

 

[anupamsurey]

yeah you have to know some one before accepting them....most of the Indians don't even know anything about roma

 

[fyodor]

Thats so exaggerated, its true that Indians like fair skin but nothing at the scale you are talking about. BTW you won't be considered dark skinned in India.

 

[Simple_Guy]

yeah you have to know some one before accepting them....most of the Indians don't even know anything about roma

Exactly. Racist Europeans are the problem.

But I don't think the majority of Europeans are such racist b***ards that they don't accept the Roma even after a thousand years!

I mean European people have been in Americas for half that time and they call it their home. If migrants are to return to their original homes then first all Europeans should be dumped back into Europe.

 

[Eesh]

Germanic people are the worst racist in the would.

 

[Razor]

Even, well lets say, "non-racist" euros that I know, seem to have a strong dislike for the Romas.

This they say is because the Romas don't integrate into the society and involve in acts like pick-pocketing, vandalism etc. I personally don't know any Roma, so I can't confirm the above statement.

 

[Soul83]

Even, well lets say, "non-racist" euros that I know, seem to have a strong dislike for the Romas.

This they say is because the Romas don't integrate into the society and involve in acts like pick-pocketing, vandalism etc. I personally don't know any Roma, so I can't confirm the above statement.

some romas certainly do (there are pick pockets etc.) but some dont and criticing roma integration shouldnt be viewed as racist, i mean the degree of employment, housing and education etc. the thing is that romas are unique case, a unique population with unique history. romas are just too quickly stereotyped because thats what is in the heads of people since 1500 years. also europeans called other peoples and unrelated ethnic groups gypsies if they were low castes/outcastes like the sea gypsies in indonesia or some tribes in india which they declared as criminal tribes (in oppossition to high caste martial tribes who could serve in british army) but those people are another ethnic group more or less maybe related, because when roma came to europe they were given the name gypsy derriving from e-gypt-ian because they were thought to be from egypt etc. also often people are unaware of romas and it is not widely accepted that they are human really like it is now accepted for blacks or other "minorities" etc. and that there are integration problems should be viewed critically and shouldnt be called racist but depends also on the approach. if you look into usa 60% of crimes are commited by blacks also violent crimes like murder and robbery etc. while they are only 8% of the population. so gypsies are not only with integration problems but they are seen more as stereotype then as actual humans and gypsy is a insult in my languages. for example i went out to drink a coffee with a group and one guy said he was quiete the zigeuner as kid (zigeuner is german word for gypsy and it meant he was a naughty bad behaved kid with no morals etc.) and i was ashamed and didnt said im roma, well in many langauges cigan, gypsy, zigeuner, gitano etc. is heavily negative and something to be ashamed of if your such a thing and some would not openly communicate their heritage.

 

[Razor]

some romas certainly do (there are pick pockets etc.) but some dont and criticing roma integration shouldnt be viewed as racist, i mean the degree of employment, housing and education etc. the thing is that romas are unique case, a unique population with unique history. romas are just too quickly stereotyped because thats what is in the heads of people since 1500 years. also europeans called other peoples and unrelated ethnic groups gypsies if they were low castes/outcastes like the sea gypsies in indonesia or some tribes in india which they declared as criminal tribes (in oppossition to high caste martial tribes who could serve in british army) but those people are another ethnic group more or less maybe related, because when roma came to europe they were given the name gypsy derriving from e-gypt-ian because they were thought to be from egypt etc. also often people are unaware of romas and it is not widely accepted that they are human really like it is now accepted for blacks or other "minorities" etc. and that there are integration problems should be viewed critically and shouldnt be called racist but depends also on the approach. if you look into usa 60% of crimes are commited by blacks also violent crimes like murder and robbery etc. while they are only 8% of the population. so gypsies are not only with integration problems but they are seen more as stereotype then as actual humans and gypsy is a insult in my languages. for example i went out to drink a coffee with a group and one guy said he was quiete the zigeuner as kid (zigeuner is german word for gypsy and it meant he was a naughty bad behaved kid with no morals etc.) and i was ashamed and didnt said im roma, well in many langauges cigan, gypsy, zigeuner, gitano etc. is heavily negative and something to be ashamed of if your such a thing and some would not openly communicate their heritage.

Frankly, don't know much about Romas except their ancient links to India, which are of course not 100% substantiated.
Just thought I'll post some first hand info I heard from some euros I know.

 

[Soul83]

Frankly, don't know much about Romas except their ancient links to India, which are of course not 100% substantiated.
Just thought I'll post some first hand info I heard from some euros I know.

many indians would say it is not proven or true that romas are from india. thats why i made my thread.

 

[Razor]

many indians would say it is not proven or true that romas are from india. thats why i made my thread.

From the superficial reading I have done on the subject: I would say there seems to be links but it is not fully established, which is why I said "not 100% substantiated"

If you think that Romas are certainly from India then you should post material (preferably academic) which substantiate the claims.
Specifically I would like to know when the Roma migrated and from where.

Also setting aside all the supposed racist mentality of the Indians when dealing with Romas: Frankly there is no real reason for Indians to treat Romas in any special way as compared to other ethnic groups because Romas supposedly migrated from India several centuries/millennia back.
If any ethnic or linguistic or religious group wants to be treated well in a foreign land, they need to integrate to some extent into the society. The same is true for India.

 

[Soul83]

From the superficial reading I have done on the subject: I would say there seems to be links but it is not fully established, which is why I said "not 100% substantiated"

If you think that Romas are certainly from India then you should post material (preferably academic) which substantiate the claims.
Specifically I would like to know when the Roma migrated and from where.

Also setting aside all the supposed racist mentality of the Indians when dealing with Romas: Frankly there is no real reason for Indians to treat Romas in any special way as compared to other ethnic groups because Romas supposedly migrated from India several centuries/millennia back.
If any ethnic or linguistic or religious group wants to be treated well in a foreign land, they need to integrate to some extent into the society. The same is true for India.

it is anthropologically (cultural, physical etc.) linguistically and genetically proven already. for example http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ns-india-northwest-indians-south-indians.html
the most up to date is the romas migrated 1.500 years ago from northwest india (encompassing punjab and pakistan). their ydna is most common in southindia but autosomally and mtdna they are northwestindians similar to punjabis and kashmiris etc. if you know what mtdna and ydna and autosomal is. The freqency of H1a (most common roma ydna) is in southindia but it exists also in northindia and everywhere in india but just less etc. also it is exclusive to india so they are certainly from india. The haplogroup arose somewhere like 30.000 years ago in india. I dont care about details etc. just that they are from india, also to me it is obvious because they exhibit apperances which are most close to southasia somewhat unique even for southasia but still most close to southasia.

 

[Razor]

it is anthropologically (cultural, physical etc.) linguistically and genetically proven already. for example http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ns-india-northwest-indians-south-indians.html

I ll check this out later, for want of time.

the most up to date is the romas migrated 1.500 years ago from northwest india (encompassing punjab and pakistan). their ydna is most common in southindia but autosomally and mtdna they are northwestindians similar to punjabis and kashmiris etc. if you know what mtdna and ydna and autosomal is. The freqency of H1a (most common roma ydna) is in southindia but it exists also in northindia and everywhere in india but just less etc. also it is exclusive to india so they are certainly from india. The haplogroup arose somewhere like 30.000 years ago in india. I dont care about details etc. just that they are from india, also to me it is obvious because they exhibit apperances which are most close to southasia somewhat unique even for southasia but still most close to southasia.

The DNA point is moot.
For eg: DNA tests show that my Y-DNA is R1a1a and my mtDNA is M3.
This doesn't mean I will automatically be accepted at places where these YDNA and mtDNA are abundant. One has to blend into the parent culture(s) to be accepted.

To put it mildly you (as in Romas) have been away from India for generations and therefore culturally you don't resemble Indians, and therefore you'll have to make conscious efforts to integrate if you are to be accepted. This is in general true for most societies.

 

[Soul83]

I ll check this out later, for want of time.



The DNA point is moot.
For eg: DNA tests show that my Y-DNA is R1a1a and my mtDNA is M3.
This doesn't mean I will automatically be accepted at places where these YDNA and mtDNA are abundant. One has to blend into the parent culture(s) to be accepted.

To put it mildly you (as in Romas) have been away from India for generations and therefore culturally you don't resemble Indians, and therefore you'll have to make conscious efforts to integrate if you are to be accepted. This is in general true for most societies.

there are cultural southasian elements in roma, they are a unique culture but they have elements of southasia. they can be accepted as outliers of asia, as somewhat unique culture and india is not monolith there are christians, muslims, zoroastrians, buddhists, hindus etc. and tamils bengalis, punjabis etc. roma pass as outliers of southasia (outlier means not the norm but somewhat outside) Gypsy Culture: Customs, Traditions & Beliefs
also with modernism in india i would fit there too for example in a metropole like delhi because i speak english.

 

[Razor]

there are cultural southasian elements in roma, they are a unique culture but they have elements of southasia. they can be accepted as outliers of asia, as somewhat unique culture and india is not monolith there are christians, muslims, zoroastrians, buddhists, hindus etc. and tamils bengalis, punjabis etc. roma pass as outliers of southasia (outlier means not the norm but somewhat outside) Gypsy Culture: Customs, Traditions & Beliefs
also with modernism in india i would fit there too for example in a metropole like delhi because i speak english.

Sounds good.