Surgical strikes inside Pak. Possibility?

[airtel]

India's ties with Iran ?? it is just business , we are not giving them any other type of support , we are supporting Israel in UN , we need Iran because of chabbar and oil thats it ................ and we are still not world power , neither we have strong economy like china , nor we have advanced military technology , our country is highly unstable because we are divided in the name of language , religion , caste etc ..............it is very easy to create civil war in India ..........

Israel is facing ignorance after India's ties with Iran.

We have risen as a great power but too much buzz around world.

 

[Bornubus]

If you read my comment properly, I have repeatedly professed hitting American interests, not obeying them. Ajit Doval has said, just a few hours back that India will hold off the dialogue until Pakistan acts against JeM. Which means that we certainly are not following the American script of forced reconciliation.

As to our retaliation to Pakistani attacks, there are other ways to achieve same level of damage without having to use IAF assets. The Afghanistan-Pakistan border is porous, we could sneak in as many operatives as we want, plus, Afghanistan's intelligence agency has assets within Pakistan, we could use them. After all, if madrassa mosquitoes are to be killed, one could do it with infantry action too. Using IAF deliberately to show bravado and invading radar defenses will result in losing the propaganda war. We need to take coercive action while maintaining a false face of friendliness. China, Russia, USA all do that. They devour entire civilizations without even giving a single burp then they take a nap and when they wake up, their media says "humanity has prevailed, thanks to our peaceful efforts".

No one here is professing that we should not retaliate but you seem to be more interested in advertising our involvement than the retaliation itself.

Basically this thread is about our cabalities of overt action to punish pakis in front of the world.I am aware that few can send proxies in Pak anytime, its not the point nor its the point of US pressure or our pacifist image in the world.

 

[Adux]

What a joke, air strikes in Pakistan

 

[rock127]

Just do Proxy and when Pakis cry then ask them to provide proof.

If they provide any proof somehow then say "not enough proof".

Sit tight and in case Pakis try any adventure then retaliate and make sure to get International support and show the historical support base Pakis have given to Terrorists including Osama.Pakis are doing Proxy since they know that India is not paying back in kind through same proxy.

The ONLY way Pakis obey/bendover before us is when we bitchslap them and show their aukat.

 

[Bornubus]

What a joke, air strikes in Pakistan

Successfully done just a decade back.

 

[Bornubus]

Just do Proxy and when Pakis cry then ask them to provide proof.

If they provide any proof somehow then say "not enough proof".

Sit tight and in case Pakis try any adventure then retaliate and make sure to get International support and show the historical support base Pakis have given to Terrorists including Osama.Pakis are doing Proxy since they know that India is not paying back in kind through same proxy.

The ONLY way Pakis obey/bendover before us is when we bitchslap them and show their aukat.

40 billion defence budget keval RD parade key ?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

India's ties with Iran ?? it is just business , we are not giving them any other type of support , we are supporting Israel in UN , we need Iran because of chabbar and oil thats it

Israel can't last with India too long given it's small size. We have still not recognized Israel and also have ties with Palestine.
Moreover, expanding energy hungry economy of India needs fuel. Also, Iran opens the gate of middle east to us.

................ and we are still not world power , neither we have strong economy like china , nor we have advanced military technology ,

Nope, we are a world power but not a superpower like USA, Russia and China. We have enough tech, economy and influence in international affairs at that level to protect our interests.
Superpowers:
US, Russia, China
Great World Powers(A step below superpower):
India, Germany, UK, France and further.
And speed of expansion of our power is enough to get us in "that" league in one or two decades.

our country is highly unstable because we are divided in the name of language , religion , caste etc ..............it is very easy to create civil war in India ..........

Yes, it is divided but not as much as you're saying. Only some groups of fundamentalists is creating trouble.

Tell me, if such civil war on religion occurs, will you kill people of other religion with other idiots. Clearly neither you nor me are enough stupid to do that. Nor majority of people are idiots.
Same thing is in other countries.

 

[Navneet Kundu]

Basically this thread is about our cabalities of overt action to punish pakis in front of the world.I am aware that few can send proxies in Pak anytime, its not the point nor its the point of US pressure or our pacifist image in the world.

I thought it was a generic thread seeking opinion on whether or not airstrikes are a good option. I didn't realize that you were seeking technical responses on how the IAF would go about conducting the airstrikes working on a presumption that the government has given clearance. In that case, even I am waiting for a response from someone who could explain the Pakistani air defense arrangements (and our counter measures) to us.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

It is the time we should identify the individual culprit and eliminate them horribally to convey a massage to all possible Jihadist who want to harm india and indian interest. Down the plane carrying the biggest terrorist raheel sharif. That should convey the massage.

 

[Navneet Kundu]

@airtel Yes Pakistanis were aware of the strike. Maybe not all Pakistanis, but the top most leadership was aware. This has been said over and over in various documentaries where people from Musharraf to ISI chief (In Aljazeera Hard Talk interview) has said that they were involved and the false charge of incompetence had to be accepted as the official line to prevent a wider audience from thinking that the Pakis were in collusion with US in killing, what they consider, a 'muslim hero' a.k.a Osama.

The US has not cut off aid to Pakis, just a few months back I heard that their annual assistance was wired to them. Also there are several ways to send money, other than just Kerry-Luger bill. They continue to send it through IMF and call it civilian assistance, they can send it through NGOs and call it 'a token of friendship', they can send it as a world bank loan in the name of infrastructure projects, they can send them Cobra helicopters and F16 planes for free, while claiming on paper that no money was sent. In reality, as the global conflict heats up, the aid has only gone up because Pakistan-Afghanistan area has become very important to all global players so they need Paki on their side. In fact, there is a law that says that American can't send aid to any nation which is in violation of NPT, but right from 1980s the US has been giving brazenly giving false testimony claiming that Pakistan has no nukes, just so that they could send aid.

US has not given any critical technology to India. They have in fact tried to stall every important project we are working on. They assassinate our scientists, they bribe ISRO officials to file false cases against people working on cryogenic engines, they bully Israel to impede the sale of Green Pine radar, they bully European nations to stop them from sharing AESA or engine technology, or missile technology citing MTCR. They bullied Australia from sending uranium citing NSG restrictions. Most people don't know this but the scientific sanctions imposed on us during Vajpayee's nuclear test are still in place, meaning, some rare earth elements that are needed to make components can't be imported by India till today.

The only critical thing that USA has given us is a critical pain in the ass. This is the unfortunate cost of sharing the planet with an arrogant nation called USA, all nations are paying that price. I wonder where you get your facts from?

 

[maomao]

You cannot pinpoint terrorists hiding in isi safe houses.....send some BLA to blow up Gwadar Port, and you will see how paki hired guns (aka paki army & isi) fall in line!

 

[Bornubus]

You cannot pinpoint terrorists hiding in isi safe houses.....send some BLA to blow up Gwadar Port, and you will see how paki hired guns (aka paki army & isi) fall in line!

Hafeez saeed house is in public knowledge along with Dawood safe house in clifton karanchi, israeli sufa would've had bombed it,by now.

 

[maomao]

Hafeez saeed house is in public knowledge along with Dawood safe house in clifton karanchi, israeli sufa would've had bombed it,by now.

Do you think they might be there at present?

 

[Bornubus]

Do you think they might be there at present?

Not me but security agencies can verify it, in case if india decided to take out in airstike.

 

[airtel]

@airtel Yes Pakistanis were aware of the strike. Maybe not all Pakistanis, but the top most leadership was aware. This has been said over and over in various documentaries where people from Musharraf to ISI chief (In Aljazeera Hard Talk interview) has said that they were involved and the false charge of incompetence had to be accepted as the official line to prevent a wider audience from thinking that the Pakis were in collusion with US in killing, what they consider, a 'muslim hero' a.k.a Osama.

The US has not cut off aid to Pakis, just a few months back I heard that their annual assistance was wired to them. Also there are several ways to send money, other than just Kerry-Luger bill. They continue to send it through IMF and call it civilian assistance, they can send it through NGOs and call it 'a token of friendship', they can send it as a world bank loan in the name of infrastructure projects, they can send them Cobra helicopters and F16 planes for free, while claiming on paper that no money was sent. In reality, as the global conflict heats up, the aid has only gone up because Pakistan-Afghanistan area has become very important to all global players so they need Paki on their side. In fact, there is a law that says that American can't send aid to any nation which is in violation of NPT, but right from 1980s the US has been giving brazenly giving false testimony claiming that Pakistan has no nukes, just so that they could send aid.

US has not given any critical technology to India. They have in fact tried to stall every important project we are working on. They assassinate our scientists, they bribe ISRO officials to file false cases against people working on cryogenic engines, they bully Israel to impede the sale of Green Pine radar, they bully European nations to stop them from sharing AESA or engine technology, or missile technology citing MTCR. They bullied Australia from sending uranium citing NSG restrictions. Most people don't know this but the scientific sanctions imposed on us during Vajpayee's nuclear test are still in place, meaning, some rare earth elements that are needed to make components can't be imported by India till today.

The only critical thing that USA has given us is a critical pain in the ass. This is the unfortunate cost of sharing the planet with an arrogant nation called USA, all nations are paying that price. I wonder where you get your facts from?

we got technology of EMAL , our aircraft carrier has American engine , we got p8i , we got TOT of general electric 414 , predator c UAV , heavy transport air crafts ..............there is a joint venture between boeing and reliance .check the American technology used in our navy .

last year they offered stealth and thrust vectoring technology for AMCA.

^^^^^^^^these are not critical technology ??

they supported Indian membership in MTCR (Italy opposed it )...............yes in past America was our enemy but look at their behavior in last 5 years , may be they want to use India against china ( like they used pakistaan ).................but still this is a Great opportunity for India to get as much knowledge, technology & investment possible ...................and we should not fight with china ( and avoid mistakes committed by Pakistan ).

 

[Navneet Kundu]

What @Bornubus says is true @maomao sir. IDK about Dawood, but Hafeez Seed is as readily accessible in Pakistan. He conducts open rallies, lakhs of people attend it (5 lakh people attended last time), the government of Pakistan provides specially reserved trains for the people who attend those rallies.


His 'humanitarian NGO' JuD which is registered in Punjab, receives state funds from Nawaz Sharif's government. He has a hospital as a front and people manage it for him. It seems to me he is some sort of US protection whereby they have told all intel agencies that he is not to be harmed. Just last month Pakistan govt banned the broadcasting of JuD, FIF, LeT speeches, and John Kirby warned Pakistan that to make sure that the 'freedom of expression of terrorists is not stifled' through this media ban.

Please read this, it will boil your blood : http://www.dawn.com/news/1218289

That's the duplicity of US.

QUOTE :

US State Department spokesman John Kirby recently said in a press briefing that there was a balance to be struck between the fight against terrorism and media freedom.

“The US regularly discussed with all its partners the importance of balancing the fight against terrorism with the imperative to preserve civil liberties, including freedom of expression and freedom of the press,” he added.

The USA, self-proclaimed 'champions of human values' are trying to preserve the civil liberties of Hafeez Saeed while Pakistan tries to ban it? I smell a rat.

we got technology of EMAL

EMALS was under discussion, I don't think it materialized. Can you provide a citation for the same? For the rest, they have sold weapons but not ToT, not for P8i, not for GE414. The rest of the offers for ToT are based on heavy conditions. Once you buy their parts, they will make you sign LSA, CISMOA and BECA and trap us. Once you sign this, you can't modify anything, you can't use it in wars that the US doesn't approve of, you can't even sell it to any other nation without US permission. Remember how they stifled Israeli indigenous jet project Lavi? They give you technology, then when you start using it, they start blackmailing you.

 

[airtel]

I dont trust Pakistani newspapers , they also reported that duplicate osama was killed in Afghanistan and then USA crated all this drama just to defame Pakistan .

i never said that we should blindly trust USA , they are also having a nuclear deal with Iran ( thus cheated Israel ) , they are the indirect supporters of ISIS.................but as of now we need USA ...............so that we can get those technologies ......we dont have much options .

duplicity of US ?? actually we are also doing that ....................we are friend with Russia & USA ..................similarly with Iran & Israel ...............at the same time .

 

[Navneet Kundu]

Is it in our interest to keep the US defense industry running on our tax money @airtel ? It seems to me that our strategy is to avoid US weapons as much as we can and buy them only if an alternative is not available. We went for Green Pine BMD radar and Barak interceptor missiles instead of Patriot system, we went for Spike anti-tank missile instead of Javelin, we went for Rafale instead of F16, we went for Herron drones instead of predators, we went for Israeli avionics and ELTA radar instead of american offer, (even the GE 414 was only bought after all other alternative failed) so clearly there is a conscious policy to avoid US overtures as much as possible. They tried to play hardball over the issue of M777 howitzers for more than 3 years, we cancelled the order. It has been restarted in 2015, I think. We need to make sure that we don't benefit their industry unless they are willing to make strategic concessions to India. It's much easier and cheaper to simply buy peace with our enemies than buying expensive US weapons to fight wars with our neighbors. Wars, which, the US ignites deliberately to make weapon sales. We need to break that cycle. Once their strategic planners realize that this plan of igniting conflicts (by giving weapons to Pakistan, protection to LeT) as a strategy to get India to buy weapons isn't yielding favorable results, they will stop. If you buy weapons from them, they it's like rewarding their bad behavior and giving them incentive to pursue that policy.

Let's take whatever we get from Israel, Russia, France. Let's keep US as a last resort, and let's not buy even an underwear from Britain.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

I dont trust Pakistani newspapers , they also reported that duplicate osama was killed in Afghanistan and then USA crated all this drama just to defame Pakistan .

i never said that we should blindly trust USA , they are also having a nuclear deal with Iran ( thus cheated Israel ) , they are the indirect supporters of ISIS.................but as of now we need USA ...............so that we can get those technologies ......we dont have much options .

duplicity of US ?? actually we are also doing that ....................we are friend with Russia & USA ..................similarly with Iran & Israel ...............at the same time .

Well, a sensible comment. China did the same by taking Russian technologies. We can do this to US.
Moreover, for protecting national interests nothing is cheating in diplomacy and international politics.
India was enemy of US and China was that of Soviets in 60s and 70s. Things are reversed now.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Is it in our interest to keep the US defense industry running on our tax money @airtel ? It seems to me that our strategy is to avoid US weapons as much as we can and buy them only if an alternative is not available. We went for Green Pine BMD radar and Barak interceptor missiles instead of Patriot system, we went for Spike anti-tank missile instead of Javelin, we went for Rafale instead of F16, so clearly there is a conscious policy to avoid US overtures as much as possible. They tried to play hardball over the issue of M777 howitzers for more than 3 years, we cancelled the order. It has been restarted in 2015, I think. We need to make sure that we don't benefit their industry unless they are willing to make strategic concessions to India. It's much easier and cheaper to simply buy peace with our enemies than buying expensive US weapons to fight wars with our neighbors. Wars, which, the US ignites deliberately to make weapon sales. We need to break that cycle. Once their strategic planners realize that this plan of igniting conflicts (by giving weapons to Pakistan, protection to LeT) as a strategy to get India to buy weapons isn't yielding favorable results, they will stop. If you buy weapons from them, they it's like rewarding their bad behavior and giving them incentive to pursue that policy.

Let's take whatever we get from Israel, Russia, France. Let's keep US as a last resort, and let's not buy even an underwear from Britain.

There is nothing wrong in giving some benefit to their industry if we can get technology.