Pak-Russia talks on delivery of Su-35, Mi-35s underway: Russian Deputy FM

[Zebra]

.................now we are neither here nor there and squadron strength is depleting away .....fantastic management as usual .......whether its congi or modi some things never change it seems...............
bst regards,
R

Modi must resign now.
He is no good.
Congress kept buying '50% wali items' and now Modi also do the same.
Enough is enough.
India deserves much better than these.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Modi must resign now.
He is no good.
Congress kept buying '50% wali items' and now Modi also do the same.
Enough is enough.
India deserves much better than these.

No one cares about building indigenous weapons. The kickbacks are too good in imports.

 

[brational]

India must poach few Russian Engineers from Aircraft Engine Makers and induct them into Kaveri/New Engine Project and pay them heftily on delivery. Few engineers from Sukhoi Design Bureau will also do wonders.

 

[brational]

We can not force Russia to stop their military equipment supply to other countries. Russian arms supply to any Islamic country (including Indonesia, Malaysia and Iran) is a direct threat to India, because in the event of war, these countries are going to help Pakistan in every possible way. China is a major importer of Russian arms too.
Time to focus on creating a Military Industrial complex rather than crying foul.
Israel is a reliable partner but no one can guarantee that Israel won't supply defense tech to China/Russia. So it is better to come out of the vicious circle of Arms Import.

 

[Poseidon]

lol it has turned out to be fake news.
Russian minister never himself referred to Su-35 in his statement but it was just an insertion by the sputnik journo in his article.
This has led to erroneous report of Su-35 offer to Pakistan.
The blamd for this false news lies on RIA Novosti journo back in july when he added SU-35 mistakenly to Kozhins statement which only referred to Mi-35.

 

[sabari]

We can not force Russia to stop their military equipment supply to other countries. Russian arms supply to any Islamic country (including Indonesia, Malaysia and Iran) is a direct threat to India, because in the event of war, these countries are going to help Pakistan in every possible way. China is a major importer of Russian arms too.
Time to focus on creating a Military Industrial complex rather than crying foul.
Israel is a reliable partner but no one can guarantee that Israel won't supply defense tech to China/Russia. So it is better to come out of the vicious circle of Arms Import.

We should make a deal with Japan for joint weapons development its hard to make but deal with Japan because they never had accepted such deal since world war but .if we manage to make the deal it will be a big leap .I consider Japanese as peaple reliable than others .they stand for there word till last

 

[The enlightened]

What about CCTV? Is it official enough for you? How about PLA generals?

If they made such bombastic news, it would definitely be prudent to consider it.

Mi-35 outdated - Yes
T-90S outdated - Yes

You are still hell bent on Sputnik and its "prophecy". Sputnik also says Russia is ready to fulfill its orders of Su-35 from Vietnam and China.

Why the hell would you reciprocate something you cannot buy or maintain? They were also offered Mi28NE but they chose Mi-35, what does that tell you?

Read this thread once again from the beginning and then read some more about Pak military, its capabilities, doctrines and ambitions.

At some point, repeating things again and again can get annoying.

The Chinese sale issue isn't comparable. Chini already operate a lot of Russian hardware and it won't be shocking to see them buy one more. Pakistan OTOH has been under a virtual embargo so far (w.r.t to offensive items) and if Russia (media) shows any inclination to change that then it must be considered regardless of whether the actual sale materializes.

'Why the hell would you reciprocate something you cannot buy or maintain? They were also offered Mi28NE but they chose Mi-35, what does that tell you?

Read this thread once again from the beginning and then read some more about Pak military, its capabilities, doctrines and ambitions.

At some point, repeating things again and again can get annoying.'.

This is your opinion and will be treated as such. You are in no position to influence Pakistani strategic and tactical outlook and neither are you their treasurer to so confidently proclaim and what they should and should not buy. Air Commodore (Retd) Kaiser Tufail has indicated how Pakistan can utilize Su 35

Air Commodore (R) Kaiser Tufail explains the Su-35S offer to defensenews.com

http://**********/attachments/su35-jpg.256367/
"There is a possible need for something in this class on two accounts: diversification and to support naval operations. The Su-35 "being a twin-engined aircraft with vast range (and endurance), it would help us to have a significant and potent presence in the Arabian Sea, something that the puny, aging Mirage squadron is ill-suited for (as is the JF-17 from the range point of view)," he said. "Given the changing geo-politics and the Chinese investment whose trade terminus is Gwadar, there is definitely going to be a need for a long-range fighter. So essentially, I see it as a guarantor of maritime security as far as the airspace is concerned.

"All of this may sound like a sudden switch from continental strategy to a maritime one, but it is high time that we paid serious attention to this aspect in the fast changing geopolitical scenario. Pakistan's air power over the Arabian Sea already received a boost this month when No. 2 'Minhas' Squadron based in Karachi was re-equipped September 6 with the JF-17 Block II after surrendering its Chengdu F-7P fighters.

The re-equipment of [No. 2 'Minhas' Squadron] was due as they had the oldest lot of F-7s. The JF-17 was the obvious replacement. The Mirage-5PA2/3 is still a capable aircraft, though long in the tooth by now. Most likely, the replacement of these Mirages would have a maritime role, so it could be a couple of years before we see a newer capability. He said Whether that replacement is the Su-35, however, remains to be seen."

Defence News

What kind of rabbit would that be that says Russian jets are superior to China's? Killing your own defence exports for Pakistan's sake and accepting Russia's superiority in market.

Isn't China developing its very own version of Su-35 called J-11D?

What Russo-Paki partnership? When did that happen? Please don't tell me they sold them engines and choppers so now they are sleeping in the same bed.

Last I checked neither J-10 or J-11D or whatever was being sold to foreign countries. How does China kill its exports by secretly funding Pakistani purchases of a jet which they are not even trying to compete with and nor can without a domestic engine.

What Russo-Paki partnership? When did that happen? Please don't tell me they sold them engines and choppers so now they are sleeping in the same bed

'base' 'future'

Grand schemes against India which involves China financing Russian jets for Pakistan against their own ambitions of becoming a major defence export. Chinese are mighty generous and stupid at the same time.

What resources? Bulk of Indian military is on the western border.

Pakistan on its own is nuisance enough and they don't China's help for that.

Any future purchase of Chini flanker by any country will solely rest on its merit and cost vis a vis its competitors likely a Russian flanker (unless bribes are involved (in which case all of this is moot)). It is ludicrous to even think that Chinese are destroying their exports by this one act.

Pakistani flanker increases their capability exponentially, I hope you don't dispute this.
Bulk of Indian aerial assets will be on the Chinese front in case of a 2-front war.
Peace-time deployments aren't a very useful gauge in determining war-time formations.

 

[sorcerer]

Analysts Skeptical Over Pakistan-Russia Su-35 Negotiations
ISLAMABAD — Analysts are generally skeptical at present of reports Pakistan and Russia are engaged in negotiations for the delivery of a number of Su-35 Flanker E fighter aircraft, though there is a potential requirement for such a heavy fighter.

The reports, first published in Russian media, cited Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov as saying both sides were negotiating for the delivery of an unspecified number of Su-35 jets alongside the Mi-35M "Hind E" helicopter gunships that have recently been agreed upon.

However, no word on any such negotiations was received from the Ministry of Defence Production in Pakistan when asked for comment on the issue. The agency also handles acquisition.

Experts are generally skeptical of any Su-35 being acquired by Pakistan.

Author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, said he "would be most surprised if there were to be any arrangement for provision of Su-35s."

"The Indians would be extremely upset, to the point of a major diplomatic rift," Cloughley said.

Though India is actively seeking to diversify its source of equipment from reliance on Russia, and the latter is seeking a new customer that includes limited defense sales to Pakistan, the Indo-Russian relationship is still very strong as evidenced by the co-development of the next generation PAK-FA stealth aircraft.

Analyst, author and former Pakistani Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail is also unconvinced at present that negotiations for the Su-35 are actually underway.

"To me it seems more like an offer by the Russians, more than anything else," he said.

Many analysts have considered the current Pakistani plan to carry on investing in the JF-17 Thunder program, and acquire further new or surplus F-16s if possible, to be the optimal way of modernizing its air power as well as reducing combat types. A role for such a heavy fighter as the Su-35 has not generally been envisioned.

However, Tufail says there is a possible need for something in this class on two accounts: diversification and to support naval operations.

The Su-35 "being a twin-engined aircraft with vast range (and endurance), it would help us to have a significant and potent presence in the Arabian Sea, something that the puny, aging Mirage squadron is ill-suited for (as is the JF-17 from the range point of view)," he said. "Given the changing geo-politics and the Chinese investment whose trade terminus is Gwadar, there is definitely going to be a need for a long-range fighter. So essentially, I see it as a guarantor of maritime security as far as the airspace is concerned."

Pakistan has never operated such a twin-engine fighter aircraft, but Tufail says this has been a shortcoming.

"This has been a yawning gap in [the air force's] capabilities. These fighters would also allow unhindered patrolling by the naval [long range maritime patrol aircraft], as well as providing top cover to our fleet at sea," he said.

He does not see this as a departure from the established defense posture, but recognition of an existing shortcoming.

"All of this may sound like a sudden switch from continental strategy to a maritime one, but it is high time that we paid serious attention to this aspect in the fast changing geopolitical scenario."

Pakistan's air power over the Arabian Sea already received a boost this month when No. 2 'Minhas' Squadron based in Karachi was re-equipped September 6 with the JF-17 Block II after surrendering its Chengdu F-7P fighters.

Speaking at the time, Tufail said this was overdue: "The re-equipment of [No. 2 'Minhas' Squadron] was due as they had the oldest lot of F-7s. The JF-17 was the obvious replacement."

However, he did not believe it would take over the anti-shipping strike role from the Mirage 5, which he flew during his air force career, even though the JF-17 can carry the C-802A/CSS-N-8 Saccade or the supersonic CM-400AKG.

"This, however, does not necessarily imply that it will immediately take over the maritime attack role. The Mirage-5PA2/3 is still a capable aircraft, though long in the tooth by now. Most likely, the replacement of these Mirages would have a maritime role, so it could be a couple of years before we see a newer capability," he said.

Whether that replacement is the Su-35, however, remains to be seen.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...-pakistan-russia-su-35-negotiations/72080268/

 

[Screambowl]

Any how whether this news is correct or false, it's good that such discussion took place. Otherwise our airforce was sleeping and I believe more such hoaxes must come out. Because the way we are procuring and training our pilots, well we are making them 'Sarkari Babus' rather than a soldier. I don't see any aggression in our airforce at all. News about them is limited to MMRCA and Crashes, or in some relief work. WTF are they upto?

wars of future? what about present?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...a-separate-UAV-cadre/articleshow/48939748.cms

 

[roma]

No one cares about building indigenous weapons. The kickbacks are too good in imports.

http://www.byuaccounting.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Stanford_University

India must poach few Russian Engineers from Aircraft Engine Makers and induct them into Kaveri/New Engine Project and pay them heftily on delivery. Few engineers from Sukhoi Design Bureau will also do wonders.

lol it has turned out to be fake news.
Russian minister never himself referred to Su-35 in his statement but it was just an insertion by the sputnik journo in his article.
This has led to erroneous report of Su-35 offer to Pakistan.
The blamd for this false news lies on RIA Novosti journo back in july when he added SU-35 mistakenly to Kozhins statement which only referred to Mi-35.

We should make a deal with Japan for joint weapons development its hard to make but deal with Japan because they never had accepted such deal since world war but .if we manage to make the deal it will be a big leap .I consider Japanese as peaple reliable than others .they stand for there word till last

excellent !
that is what must be done besides cementing more JV's with Israel ...... it will be a challenge for india to get Japan to move on this but then that is our challenge to MoD and MEA otherwise they will continue to pursue their online PhD from Harvard uni in "creative" accountancy via "night-time management" !!
ref Knight Mgmt program of Stanford http://www.byuaccounting.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Stanford_University

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[bengalraider]

What we need to do has three separate parts.
1)Increase manufacturing and domestic development. We can have a million jvs but we are going nowhere without a proper domestic MIC.As for kickbacks given a chance the Ambani brothers will match the Russian and European kickbacks.
2)Focus DRDO on strategic missile/laser and nuclear/BMD systems alone.
3)For semi strategic systems like 5th gen aircraft,armed drones and SSNs/SSBNs, JVs with the Israelis and the Russians can and should be formed.

As for the Japanese any joint weapons development with them shall need American approval.

 

[sabari]

What we need to do has three separate parts.
1)Increase manufacturing and domestic development. We can have a million jvs but we are going nowhere without a proper domestic MIC.As for kickbacks given a chance the Ambani brothers will match the Russian and European kickbacks.
2)Focus DRDO on strategic missile/laser and nuclear/BMD systems alone.
3)For semi strategic systems like 5th gen aircraft,armed drones and SSNs/SSBNs, JVs with the Israelis and the Russians can and should be formed.

As for the Japanese any joint weapons development with them shall need American approval.

Sir USA will not stop indo Japanese joint devolupment because it need the help of this nation to contain China .which USA can't do single handedly with help from south east Asia .that what they have done to destroy USSR by using EU as tool .that what they will do to contain China in this case India ,Japan ,viatnam,tiwan,etc.

 

[bengalraider]

Sir USA will not stop indo Japanese joint devolupment because it need the help of this nation to contain China .which USA can't do single handedly with help from south east Asia .that what they have done to destroy USSR by using EU as tool .that what they will do to contain China in this case India ,Japan ,viatnam,tiwan,etc.

While the Americans might agree their help is unlikely to come without riders, whether we want to accept those riders shall be a call to be taken by those in the halls of power in Delhi at at that time.
As for the Japanese they shall need to re energize their domestic public opinion to the prospect of defence collaboration before anything else. The last 50 years have turned the Japanese into a society of Nintendo loving peaceniks, while the Samurai undercurrent remains it is much subdued.

 

[Kyubi]

If Russia is interested in this kind of Chutzpa,then India must not hesitate to start reverse engineering all the defence items brought from Russia,just like China does.

I believe dey r doing it but with caution and subtleness

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[sabari]

We should tell Russian that if you sell su35 to Pakistan.india will not buy even a single jet from future ,we will rethink on civil nuke deal all

 

[salute]

Modi must resign now.
He is no good.
Congress kept buying '50% wali items' and now Modi also do the same.
Enough is enough.
India deserves much better than these.

dude you are australian thats why this is what you dont understand,
hindus didn't elect modi to build tanks,although building indigenous tanks is required for indias defence,
hindus elected modi to eradicate these bs caste or religion based reservations,
implementation of uniform civil code,and such other things,
and if modi do that,it gonna be appreciate by hindus more than any defence deal,

india gonna make indigenous tanks eventually.

 

[salute]

it would be pointless, china will use its veto power

A big step forward for India: UN adopts negotiating text for security council reforms

chinese veto is pointless because india would get 2/3 of un members votes,

and china backed away from its previous stance of call for election in this matter of india getting unsc permanent seat.

 

[blue marlin]

A big step forward for India: UN adopts negotiating text for security council reforms

chinese veto is pointless because india would get 2/3 of un members votes,

and china backed away from its previous stance of call for election in this matter of india getting unsc permanent seat.

it only takes one, to stop it from happening

 

[Poseidon]

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has discussed
buying Su-35 'Flanker-E' fighter aircraft from
Russia in potentially the largest defence deal
between the two countries, but a final decision is
yet to be made, a senior Pakistani government
official has confirmed to IHS Jane's .
The official was responding to Russian media
reports that Russian Deputy Foreign Minister
Sergei Ryabkov had said talks were underway for
an unspecified number of Su-35s, which follow a
recent agreement to provide Mi-35M 'Hind E'
attack helicopters to Islamabad.
While the official said "it's too early to say if a
deal will conclude and the terms", the fact that
discussions have taken place shows Russia's
willingness to sell advanced hardware with
Pakistan despite Moscow's longstanding ties with
India.

http://www.janes.com/article/54532/pakistani-official-confirms-su-35-talks

 

[Poseidon]

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