MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[spacemarine2023]

Cancel MRCA 2.0…

Add another 36 Rafales and rest money to fund Tejas program by 2035 thats a decade from now IAF should have these number sufficient for defense..

5th Gen

AMCA MK1 — Induction started by 2035

4.5++ Gen

Su 30 MKI UPG - 272
Tejas MK2 — 50+ Induction started from 2030 or so
Rafale — 72
Tejas Mk1A — ~200

4++ Gen

Tejas MK1 - 40
Mig 29 Upg/Mirage M2K Upg — ~100 on the way out


So around 800 fighters

 

[johnj]

Production capacity is for HAL to figure out, the bottleneck is orders not production regardless

Yes, and HAL consider present and future orders before setting up new production line, plus overhaul

 

[WolfPack86]

BREAKING: India finalizing 114 MRFA+26 Rafale-M deals with France !

 

[HariPrasad-1]

BREAKING: India finalizing 114 MRFA+26 Rafale-M deals with France !

Rafale is the right choice. F21, F15 are outdated platforms with modern electronics. Eurofighter has a great engine but a suboptimal deign with modern electronics almost match Rafale in overall capabilities. Mig-35 has a great maneuverability but legs behind in BVR, small RCS and electronics including poor EWF. Mig-35 is a great close combat fighter and interceptor but lacks the true 4.5 generation multirole capability. Gripen E is a great single engine fighter but costly and offers similar capabilities of what we are building in MWF. Rafale is a front runner followed closely by Eurofighter. Rafale is the right choice.

 

[binayak95]

Rafale is the right choice. F21, F15 are outdated platforms with modern electronics. Eurofighter has a great engine but a suboptimal deign with modern electronics almost match Rafale in overall capabilities. Mig-35 has a great maneuverability but legs behind in BVR, small RCS and electronics including poor EWF. Mig-35 is a great close combat fighter and interceptor but lacks the true 4.5 generation multirole capability. Gripen E is a great single engine fighter but costly and offers similar capabilities of what we are building in MWF. Rafale is a front runner followed closely by Eurofighter. Rafale is the right choice.

The F15EX does make a strong case for itself.

Huge missile load, a very capable airframe, lower acquisition and flying costs.
But again, youre adding yet another type to the IAF so the Rafale makes more organic sense.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

The F15EX does make a strong case for itself.

Huge missile load, a very capable airframe, lower acquisition and flying costs.
But again, youre adding yet another type to the IAF so the Rafale makes more organic sense.

If I have to give rank,
1 Rafale,
2 Eurofighter
3 Gripen/F15,
4 F-21
5 Mig-35

 

[Corvus Splendens]

If I have to give rank,
1 Rafale,
2 Eurofighter
3 Gripen/F15,
4 F-21
5 Mig-35

Considering what's inside the Eurofighter, I'd keep it just above the Mig.

 

[binayak95]

If I have to give rank,
1 Rafale,
2 Eurofighter
3 Gripen/F15,
4 F-21
5 Mig-35

Eurofighter? That thing has worse availability rates than Russian MiG 31s.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Eurofighter? That thing has worse availability rates than Russian MiG 31s.

Is it the case? I do not know about that.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Considering what's inside the Eurofighter, I'd keep it just above the Mig.

No It can not be because it was the finalist of MMRCA. Rafale won on the basis of price.

 

[vin bharat mahan]

The F15EX does make a strong case for itself.

Huge missile load, a very capable airframe, lower acquisition and flying costs.
But again, youre adding yet another type to the IAF so the Rafale makes more organic sense.

no way....F15 EX is very capable fighter. but it hv many disadvantage for IAF. even F18 block 2 make more sense than F15 EX.
1:- we hv already 260 su 30 mki, which is in heavy weight fighter. it hv higher RCS than other fighters like rafale nd eurofighter typhoon. so forget we will not going to send F15 as front line fighter. it will be second line fighter, just like su 30 mki.
2:- even america dont use their F15 EX for SEAD nd DEAD missions. neither its good for CAP missions. it is good in CAS missions though. so rafale nd typhoon is better option for IAF.
3:- after upgrade our su 30 mki can reach near F15 capabilities. although it cant compete with F15 ex 13500 kg weapon payload.
4:- F15 ex add 8 type of different fighter in our IAF...its good for zoo not for any airforce.
5:- F15 EX still very costly than rafale nd typhoon. u can check. america valued their 24 F15 EX to indonesia in near 13.9 billion dollars..."sun ke hi pichwada fat jayega".

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/indonesia-boeing-sign-deal-sale-f-15-fighter-jets-2023-08-22/

 

[johnj]

lower acquisition and flying costs.

Against what ??????

and most expensive to operate and fly

 

[BON PLAN]

BREAKING: India finalizing 114 MRFA+26 Rafale-M deals with France !

Wait and see.... Nothing is so easy with India.

 

[BON PLAN]

The F15EX does make a strong case for itself.

Huge missile load, a very capable airframe, lower acquisition and flying costs.
But again, youre adding yet another type to the IAF so the Rafale makes more organic sense.

India already have a "F15EX like" bird : Su30 MKI
And Indian air force clearly has a nightmare to manage with too many differents aircraft on duty, it's not ta add another one when Rafale is already in the arsenal.
=> There will be at least another Rafale deal for IAF. The sole question remaining is "how many?" 36 ? 72? 114?

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Wait and see.... Nothing is so easy with India.

Total amount will be 30billion
It can work if we abandon mk2 program and focus on amca.
Mk2 is completely unnecessary anyways.
Also not sure why mk2 was proposed when tedbf is clearly much superior

 

[Blademaster]

Total amount will be 30billion
It can work if we abandon mk2 program and focus on amca.
Mk2 is completely unnecessary anyways.
Also not sure why mk2 was proposed when tedbf is clearly much superior

totally disagree with you. Mk2 is very necessary to keep the aeronautical industry in India alive. It’s a stepping stone to AMCA and we cannot get to AMCA without Mk.2.

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

I think this may happen

114-26 = 88 for IAF & 26 is for navy

This way price for IAF 225mn × 88 = ~20 billion

& for navy 26 × 225 = ~6 billion

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

totally disagree with you. Mk2 is very necessary to keep the aeronautical industry in India alive. It’s a stepping stone to AMCA and we cannot get to AMCA without Mk.2.

That will be true if were getting only 83 mk1a.
But now we are getting 83+97, it will be enough to keep production line running for till 2030 atleast.
By then tedbf will be ready for production and amca should be in in prototype stage

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

I think this may happen

114-26 = 88 for IAF & 26 is for navy

This way price for IAF 225mn × 88 = ~20 billion

& for navy 26 × 225 = ~6 billion

Why 88?
Iaf requirement is for 114 and navy requirement is different

 

[MirageBlue]

No It can not be because it was the finalist of MMRCA. Rafale won on the basis of price.

That was before the Gripen E was available. Today, I would take the Gripen E over the Eurofighter.

My list would be:

1- Rafale F4 (best fit, IAF loves it)
2- F-15EX (very capable, but also the most expensive)
3- Gripen E (most capable 4.5 gen single engine fighter in the world)
4- Eurofighter (suffers from being a multi-national program where all the core nations have differing requirements and budgets/priorities. Leads to essential capabilities being neglected, such as AESA radar, which is now being fielded for the first time on Kuwaiti Eurofighters. Will also work out costlier than Rafale since the Rafale's have been fielded by IAF with ISE and air base infra already set up.)
5 - F-21 (capable but can't see the IAF flying F-21s in 2075)

Russian fighters will most likely not even make the cut due to lack of a production AESA radar plus the threat of sanctions due to Russia-Ukraine war.