MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[MirageBlue]

Wait and see.... Nothing is so easy with India.

Yes, they haven't quoted any source. It seems to be more of a speculation.

It is the most common sense scenario though, given the 36 Rafale F3Rs already in IAF service with ISE and air base infra plus training in place. But if it happens, it'll only be possible after the general elections in 2024 are done and if PM Modi comes back to power.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

That was before the Gripen E was available. Today, I would take the Gripen E over the Eurofighter.

My list would be:

1- Rafale F4 (best fit, IAF loves it)
2- F-15EX (very capable, but also the most expensive)
3- Gripen E (most capable 4.5 gen single engine fighter in the world)
4- Eurofighter (suffers from being a multi-national program where all the core nations have differing requirements and budgets/priorities. Leads to essential capabilities being neglected, such as AESA radar, which is now being fielded for the first time on Kuwaiti Eurofighters. Will also work out costlier than Rafale since the Rafale's have been fielded by IAF with ISE and air base infra already set up.)
5 - F-21 (capable but can't see the IAF flying F-21s in 2075)

Russian fighters will most likely not even make the cut due to lack of a production AESA radar plus the threat of sanctions due to Russia-Ukraine war.

1. Ideal.
2. No, because SU-30 MKI exists and is slated for modernization.
3. Will 100% kill Tejas Mk2.
4. No, because a Block 70/72 F-16V is better.

 

[The Maverick]

We better do something because Pakistan will.have fifth generation j31 soon by 2030 latest
We are screwed

 

[shade]

We better do something because Pakistan will.have fifth generation j31 soon by 2030 latest
We are screwed

That is a prototype, don't think its in serial production, even if it does, Chinki airforce uses the J-20 as its 5th gen stealth fighter mainstay, so this will be some shitty export version if it becomes reality.
To me this seems like a jhumla to cause dhoti shivering to us.

It's good however if this shivering leads them to fast track production of those Tejas variants and AMCA

 

[prateikf]

42 more Rafale F4 ordered for the French Air Force for $5.5 billion. Can we order a 100 for $12 billion ?

France Orders 42 More Dassault Rafale Combat Jets for $5.5B

The French Defense Procurement Agency has ordered 42 additional Rafale twin-engine fighter aircraft for the country’s air force.

www.thedefensepost.com

 

[IndianHawk]

42 more Rafale F4 ordered for the French Air Force for $5.5 billion. Can we order a 100 for $12 billion ?

France Orders 42 More Dassault Rafale Combat Jets for $5.5B

The French Defense Procurement Agency has ordered 42 additional Rafale twin-engine fighter aircraft for the country’s air force.

www.thedefensepost.com

We don't know what is included in that offer? Any Indian order will mean money for base infrastructure and weapons will be included.
Besides manufacturing in India will double the cost of rafale since all tools will have to be duplicated in India. Only assembly might take place .

 

[nongaddarliberal]

The most sensible decision is to immediately order 72 more rafales while keeping indigenous projects going. India can afford to shell out another 10 billion as an immediate measure given the air situation. Needs to be spearheaded by PMO and done on a G2G level.

Secondly there needs to be serious work with the French or Israelis on Air combat drones which can be produced relatively cheaply with decent stealth. That's the most straightforward way to augment numbers.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

All is OK with your post apart from the fact that 72 won't come for 10 billion

It would be "atleast" 72 × 225mn = 16.2 billion

225 million figure is high since we already paid most of the initial costs of simulators, SCALPs and infrastructure. Additional costs this time would be for more meteors and spare parts, 150-180 million per rafale should cover it.

 

[vin bharat mahan]

All is OK with your post apart from the fact that 72 won't come for 10 billion

It would be "atleast" 72 × 225mn = 16.2 billion

yeah...french weapons r too costly. dont know they justify their prices or France milking us too much.
2005 we make deal of making 6 scorpene class submarine in 3.7 billion dollars. that makes 616 million dollars per submarine. decent price for a 1800-2000 ton displacement submarine. but it delayed too much, nd take 18-19 years to deliver these 6 submarine.
now MDL is asking more than 3 billion dollars for 3 additional scorpene submarine. with additional of DRDO AIP. this is too much cost for a 2000 ton submarine. 1 billion+ dollar per submarine cost is outrageous. with their record of delays. same thing happened in mirage 2000 huge cost for upgrade.
france is reliable partner in geopolitics. but as weapon seller, their prices r very costly. they didnt provide any technology to us. their people r racists toward us. meanwhile indian singing best friend song, one sided. never find any common french talking positive about india. only their government is friendly to us.

 

[prateikf]

We don't know what is included in that offer? Any Indian order will mean money for base infrastructure and weapons will be included.
Besides manufacturing in India will double the cost of rafale since all tools will have to be duplicated in India. Only assembly might take place .

I think the $5.5 billion is for just 42 jets without armaments as the French govt would sign a separate deal later on with MBDA for missiles. But still a new deal will be cheaper as we have already paid for the India specific enhancements and for infrastructure at both bases to handle 72 jets.

 

[Super Flanker]

What is the aim of the IAF with respect to manufacturing of these jets? Do they want to manufacture them in India and have a maintenance and repair hub in India itself? How many numbers do we need to order in minimum to let the OEM to move the production line of their plane to India? I believe a minimum order of hundred will suffice.

My take: Just order 100 Rafales and be done with this Tender. Rafale is the most logical sense both from a geopolitical and economical POV. After a deal of hundred Rafales is signed, invest all the remaining cash into indigenous programmes such as the AMCA, TEDBF, Tejas Mk-2, etc. We should go for the latest Rafales of F4 standard, which is the variant I believe that the Indian Airforce is eyeing.

 

[NutCracker]

The most sensible decision is to immediately order 72 more rafales while keeping indigenous projects going. India can afford to shell out another 10 billion as an immediate measure given the air situation. Needs to be spearheaded by PMO and done on a G2G level.

Secondly there needs to be serious work with the French or Israelis on Air combat drones which can be produced relatively cheaply with decent stealth. That's the most straightforward way to augment numbers.

Most sensible decision would be 36+26, and be done with it. Transfer those 26 to airforce after 15 years once TEDBF tech has achieved parity with to Rafale.

 

[shade]

What is the aim of the IAF with respect to manufacturing of these jets? Do they want to manufacture them in India and have a maintenance and repair hub in India itself? How many numbers do we need to order in minimum to let the OEM to move the production line of their plane to India? I believe a minimum order of hundred will suffice.

They don't want to manufacture ANYTHING in India, screwdriver-giri assembly's extra charges have to be borne by GoI they don't give a shit.

I swear if there wasn't any pressure by the GoI over the Tejas these dalals would be pestering the GoI to purchase those Gripens to replace Mig-21 museum pieces.

 

[Super Flanker]

They don't want to manufacture ANYTHING in India, screwdriver-giri assembly's extra charges have to be borne by GoI they don't give a shit.

I swear if there wasn't any pressure by the GoI over the Tejas these dalals would be pestering the GoI to purchase those Gripens to replace Mig-21 museum pieces.

India won't import Gripen under any circumstances, India is already developing its own Desi Gripen in the form of Tejas MK-2 which will form a major part of the Indian fleet in the coming years. Importing Gripen or any single engine fighter would be as good as termination of the LCA programme. I don't understand why SAAB is still competing in this tender when they are obviously aware of the fact that their Gripen is simply not going to be selected as the finalist. Tejas Mk-2's specs are simply great, and it suits everything that the IAF would want in a single engine medium weight aircraft.

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

Apart from Super hornets(whose production will shut down within a year)... none of double engine jets are cheaper than Rafale. F-15 & Eurofighter are 10-15% expensive.

 

[prateikf]

Apart from Super hornets(whose production will shut down within a year)... none of double engine jets are cheaper than Rafale. F-15 & Eurofighter are 10-15% expensive.

Yes besides I don’t think IAF would want to add another fighter to it’s already long list of fighters.

 

[Hari Sud]

Speed up MMRCA acquisition quickly. The US is about to reward Pakistan with free military aid for opening a fight with Iran. That military aid will come in the form of upgrades for F-16; Patriot missiles (Chinese hardware is no good) and many more.

Hence it is urgent to bring the MMRCA into India sooner than later.

 

[shade]

India won't import Gripen under any circumstances, India is already developing its own Desi Gripen in the form of Tejas MK-2 which will form a major part of the Indian fleet in the coming years. Importing Gripen or any single engine fighter would be as good as termination of the LCA programme. I don't understand why SAAB is still competing in this tender when they are obviously aware of the fact that their Gripen is simply not going to be selected as the finalist. Tejas Mk-2's specs are simply great, and it suits everything that the IAF would want in a single engine medium weight aircraft.

They go by bribes and kickbacks and not reason.
Their patrons sitting in the US will cook up excuses to deny us the F404 engine needed for the Tejas, the same kind is also used for the Gripen.
Eventually the armed forces will be caught with their pants down for the #143515th time by either of our enemies and then they will go crying for those (((emergency procurements)))
SAAB knows this and is lying in wait for the "opportunity" to arise.

The AK-103 rifles which were to be produced in Amethi haven't turned up yet, so i've heard there is another (((emergency procurement))) of Sig 716 rifles, this is another example from the army but you get the point.

It is very ironic that these two forces are most likely to get in a fight with the enemy but they engage in all this for import and kickback maxxing, while the Navy is the least likely and yet makes a majority of it's ships domestically, and sources electronics domestically, while the missiles are developed in collaboration with Israel and Russia respectively, only (((imports))) are in the areas of submarines and LHDs( hope i got the acronym correct )

Also fuck pappu, if it wasn't for his barking, our Great Leader wouldn't have got scared and we could have got some more Rafales for the airforce in G2G mode, without this MMRCA 2.0 tender chutiyapa.

 

[Hari Sud]

They go by bribes and kickbacks and not reason.
Their patrons sitting in the US will cook up excuses to deny us the F404 engine needed for the Tejas, the same kind is also used for the Gripen.
Eventually the armed forces will be caught with their pants down for the #143515th time by either of our enemies and then they will go crying for those (((emergency procurements)))
SAAB knows this and is lying in wait for the "opportunity" to arise.

The AK-103 rifles which were to be produced in Amethi haven't turned up yet, so i've heard there is another (((emergency procurement))) of Sig 716 rifles, this is another example from the army but you get the point.

It is very ironic that these two forces are most likely to get in a fight with the enemy but they engage in all this for import and kickback maxxing, while the Navy is the least likely and yet makes a majority of it's ships domestically, and sources electronics domestically, while the missiles are developed in collaboration with Israel and Russia respectively, only (((imports))) are in the areas of submarines and LHDs( hope i got the acronym correct )

Also fuck pappu, if it wasn't for his barking, our Great Leader wouldn't have got scared and we could have got some more Rafales for the airforce in G2G mode, without this MMRCA 2.0 tender chutiyapa.

Your points make sense except the kickback angle. That angle is unlikely to be true with Modi around.

 

[prateikf]

They go by bribes and kickbacks and not reason.
Their patrons sitting in the US will cook up excuses to deny us the F404 engine needed for the Tejas, the same kind is also used for the Gripen.
Eventually the armed forces will be caught with their pants down for the #143515th time by either of our enemies and then they will go crying for those (((emergency procurements)))
SAAB knows this and is lying in wait for the "opportunity" to arise.

The AK-103 rifles which were to be produced in Amethi haven't turned up yet, so i've heard there is another (((emergency procurement))) of Sig 716 rifles, this is another example from the army but you get the point.

It is very ironic that these two forces are most likely to get in a fight with the enemy but they engage in all this for import and kickback maxxing, while the Navy is the least likely and yet makes a majority of it's ships domestically, and sources electronics domestically, while the missiles are developed in collaboration with Israel and Russia respectively, only (((imports))) are in the areas of submarines and LHDs( hope i got the acronym correct )

Also fuck pappu, if it wasn't for his barking, our Great Leader wouldn't have got scared and we could have got some more Rafales for the airforce in G2G mode, without this MMRCA 2.0 tender chutiyapa.

This govt doesn’t give a damn about Rahul Gandhi and his barking. He has been barking on a lot things and even on Ambani/Adani but that didn’t stop the govt from awarding contracts to them. I think there is no sense of urgency and no real desire to get the contracts inked. Even there has been no progress on ATAGS, MGS or Dhanush howitzer.