Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[militarysta]

in the last war there were situations that Finnish tank division had more captures russian T34s and Klims than original german and british bought tanks.

I have read a lot about Finnish tank division under Ruben Lagus command. Amazing -especialy greate battle under Ihantala-Tali.

 

[jouni]

I have read a lot about Finnish tank division under Ruben Lagus command. Amazing -especialy greate battle under Ihantala-Tali.

Yes at Tali-Ihantala Finnish troops managed to stop Russian attack, it opened way to peace talks and the country was saved. Those veterans are remembered yearly, especially this year with 70 years from the battle.

 

[militarysta]

More or less in Poland - in specialist journals and on military academy (all of them) Tali-Ihantala battle is well described and well known. Mostly as amazing example how one battle whit incredible hight losses can save country in some way.
And as only sucesfull known use Panzerfaust when fast deliver "new" weapons become operational sucess, etc
More or less all 1944 fight are amezing -especial when we focus on finnish tank division.

 

[Damian]

Great camouflage, almost identical to Finnish one. We just bought over 100 2A6´s from Netherlands. This puts our Leo force to over 200. Thats good, in the last war there were situations that Finnish tank division had more captures russian T34s and Klims than original german and british bought tanks.

Hey, if you are interested, I will post photos in this thread: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/land-forces/62788-15-august-polish-army-holiday-defilade.html

There is allready some photos and a video from rehearsal.

 

[jouni]

More or less in Poland - in specialist journals and on military academy (all of them) Tali-Ihantala battle is well described and well known. Mostly as amazing example how one battle whit incredible hight losses can save country in some way.
And as only sucesfull known use Panzerfaust when fast deliver "new" weapons become operational sucess, etc
More or less all 1944 fight are amezing -especial when we focus on finnish tank division.

Yes, thanks to German weapon supply with panzerfausts and air support "Detachment Kuhlmey", that came from Estonia to give air support in the battle. Kurt Kuhlmey received after the war medal from Finnish state and a memorial stone close to the airport where they operated. It would be interesting to know if anywhere else in the world has similar recognition given to German soldiers after the war. Our history in the WWII was quite tricky: we were fighting BOTH the allies ( SU & GB ) and Germany! After peace treaty with the allies we had to chase 200 000 strong Wehrmacht Lapland army out of Finland with 90% of the infrastructure of the north Finland being destroyed when they retreated.

 

[Damian]

US Army battle group will visit Poland for excerises.

1st Cavalry soldiers headed to Poland, Baltics - News - Stripes

WASHINGTON — Approximately 600 soldiers from the Army's 1st Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division will deploy to Poland and the Baltic states to help reassure European allies who feel threatened by Russian military moves, the Pentagon announced Wednesday.

The troops and their equipment — which include M-1 Abrams tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, and armored personnel carriers — will go to Europe in October for a three-month series of training exercises.

The soldiers, based at Fort Hood, Texas, are replacing about 600 paratroopers from the Army's 173rd Airborne Brigade, which is based in Vicenza, Italy. The "Sky Soldiers" have been conducting exercises with Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia since April as part of ongoing Operation Atlantic Resolve.

"These land training exercises "¦ help foster interoperability through small unit and leader training," Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren said.

In addition to ground forces, the U.S. has also sent F-16 combat aircraft to Poland and participated in NATO air policing missions over the Baltics.

The exercises came at the request of host nations that fear a resurgent Russia, which annexed the Crimea region of Ukraine earlier this year and continues to support a pro-Russia separatist movement in eastern Ukraine.

For months, the Russian military has massed forces along the border with Ukraine and provided advanced weaponry and other assistance to the rebels. In recent days, Moscow has announced its intention to send a convoy of trucks into Ukraine to deliver what it says is humanitarian aid to separatist-held areas under pressure from Ukrainian government forces.

Kiev has said it will allow Russian humanitarian aid into the affected region, but only if it is delivered by the International Red Cross. Russia wants to deliver the supplies directly.

Ukrainian and Western officials are concerned that the alleged humanitarian mission might be a ruse to enable Russia to provide more military help to the separatists.

On Tuesday, Warren warned that Russian aid convoys could be a "Trojan horse."

I suspect that this battle group will be battalion sized, which means 2x tank companies, 2x mechanized infantry companies and 1x 155mm SPH battery + logistics and maintnance.

So IMHO we will have nearly a full NATO armored brigade, simply because US Army armored brigade have 3 combat battalions + artllery battalion + HQ and logistics.

So US Army battalion sized battle group + British Army battalion sized battle group combined creates nearly brigade sized battle group.

Also recently USMC also shipped equipment for their battle group to Norway, which seems to also be battalion sized.

IMHO that US Army battle group will be what is currently stationing in Germany and participated in "Combined Resolve II" excerises.

And hey, might be opportunity to see M1 tanks and M2 infantry fighting vehicles in person!

 

[jouni]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2crAx8kibis

Promo video of FDF combat skills regarding destroying enemy tanks

 

[jouni]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=51d3s9FevyY
New finnish anti tank weapons

 

[jouni]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUxaJ5ogrq4
Finnish AMVs, rock on!

 

[militarysta]

T-72M1 armour layout:

turret:

Protection for 0. degree (530mm LOS):
410-420mm RHA vs APFSDS
500mm RAH vs HEAT

for 30. degree protection is mucht smaller of course...

hull:
(PT-91, but PT-91 - ERAWA-2 armour = T-72M1 hull)

Protection:
460mm RHA vs APFSDS (including added 16mm HHS plate)
560mm RHA vs HEAT ( including added 16mm HHS plate)


For compare re-draw T-64B from BTVT and A.Tarasenko draw:

Turret:

Protection for 0. degree:
420-450mm RHA vs APFSDS
550mm RHA vs HEAT


hull:

Protection:
~430-440mm RHA vs APFSDS
~ 510mm RHA vs HEAT

 

[militarysta]

btw: for indian friends:
yours T-72M1 Aleya have the same turret layout and hull as T-71M1
So protection is the same as T-71M1.
Shitty...

 

[militarysta]

Finnish AMVs, rock on!

AMV - very good vehicle, Poland is using above 690 AMV in local version (Rosomak aka Wolverwine) most whit Hitfist-30P turret - as IFV not APC.
Greate vehicle - firepower is bigger then in BMP-2.

 

[militarysta]

Next gorgeus photo from yesterday Polish Army parade

visble Leopard-2A5 wedges armour cut-viev on one of the polish Leo-2A5.
Seriously greate photo:

IMHO NxRA or SLERA. The coulour of the intrlayer is showing (IMHO) rubber whit something (Dottikon?) so propably SLERA armour.

oh, orginall photo:

and as addon:

ERAWA-2 and ERAWA-1 ERA casettes on polish PT-91 tank:

 

[hitesh]

@Damian , @militarysta

sir can you give your comments regarding the sight used by these T55 tanks

 

[militarysta]

Added on PT-91M external HHS/RHA plate have not 16mm like in T-72M1 but twice as that -32mm...

It mean that layout is not: 16mm RHA/HHS + 60mm RHA + 105mm STEF + 50mm RHA but:

32mm RHA/HHS + 60mm RHA + 105mm STEF + 50mm RHA, so for LOS thickenss it give completly diffrtn value of the protection:
~500mm RHA vs APFSDS
~600mm RHA vs APFSDS
im confused by this values, but there is no other option - for frontal hull plate we have (for LOS) +85mm RHA/HHS so value is as given above
Interesting.
More or less 3BM42 Mango will not pass. Not even mentioned ERAWA-2 on front hull..

 

[Damian]

@Damian , @militarysta

sir can you give your comments regarding the sight used by these T55 tanks

You mean the box over gun mantled? It's just a laser range finder, perhaps with additional thermal (?) sight.

Oh and by the way, this might actually be T-54's, I can see in glacis plate opening for hull machine gun, T-55's does not have it.

 

[militarysta]

NxRA or SLERA armour on polish Leopard-2A5:

-----------------------
photos:








[/quote]

 

[methos]

According to KMW's official website, there are no radiating or explosive elements in the Leopard 2's armour. So probably no SLERA, but NERA/NxRA with highly optimized materials (like the materials developed by IBD).

 

[militarysta]

According to KMW's official website, there are no radiating or explosive elements in the Leopard 2's armour. So probably no SLERA, but NERA/NxRA with highly optimized materials (like the materials developed by IBD).

if it's true info, not disinformation, then indeed - what more - metarial used as interalyer is resistant for wather and cold weather.

I'm thinking that it's not pure NERA couse rather diffent layout used in NERA armour: thicker RHA plate - thin rubber/elastomer layer - thin RHA plate.
In those armour we have something pretty close to M.Held thesis, so rather NxRA?

 

[Dazzler]

Added on PT-91M external HHS/RHA plate have not 16mm like in T-72M1 but twice as that -32mm...

It mean that layout is not: 16mm RHA/HHS + 60mm RHA + 105mm STEF + 50mm RHA but:

32mm RHA/HHS + 60mm RHA + 105mm STEF + 50mm RHA, so for LOS thickenss it give completly diffrtn value of the protection:
~500mm RHA vs APFSDS
~600mm RHA vs APFSDS
im confused by this values, but there is no other option - for frontal hull plate we have (for LOS) +85mm RHA/HHS so value is as given above
Interesting.
More or less 3BM42 Mango will not pass. Not even mentioned ERAWA-2 on front hull..

i remember once you compared ERAWA-2 with Kanchan composite armour, what was the basis of this comparison, Kunal provided good details about Kanchan but it was not the most recent version IMHO. Where do you thnk Kanchan and ERAWA are similar and what is your estimation on their functionality.

Thanks