Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Samej Jangir]

So Government shipyards underbid, take some fat commission and then sub-contract to L&T, is it?

They are just making absurd demands. L&T is also indirectly owned by govt. 24% share is owned by company itself. Among the 76% shares, govt has majority through LIC, PSBs etc. But it is considered private legally due to indirect shareholding. Giving orders to L&T will cost more due to its corporate governance structure but is being done as defence capabilities need redundancy so that if some units get destroyed, there are backups

 

[mamamia12]

They are just making absurd demands. L&T is also indirectly owned by govt. 24% share is owned by company itself. Among the 76% shares, govt has majority through LIC, PSBs etc. But it is considered private legally due to indirect shareholding. Giving orders to L&T will cost more due to its corporate governance structure but is being done as defence capabilities need redundancy so that if some units get destroyed, there are backups

Who are making absurd demands....also I had look at the past of L&T. Its like some sort of Apple in the Eye of Major Governments themselves.

 

[Samej Jangir]

Who are making absurd demands....also I had look at the past of L&T. Its like some sort of Apple in the Eye of Major Governments themselves.

Apple or not, it is indirectly controlled by govt and hence considered a reliable and non controversial corporation. As for absurd demands, it is the union who want HSL to have all the work without understanding the concept of redundancy & expansion of industry. The idea is to have multiple industry, SME units have the same capability so that during war times, production can be scaled up tremendously. Being short sighted and asking all work to be done by HSL may save cost but will cause serious problems in defence capability

 

[Dharani]

So Government shipyards underbid, take some fat commission and then sub-contract to L&T, is it?

Mostly yes, not ideal but still better than nothing. Atleast it builds cred & keeps the shipyard feasible. After executing these orders, atleast the export market would open up for them.

 

[mamamia12]

Mostly yes, not ideal but still better than nothing. Atleast it builds cred & keeps the shipyard feasible. After executing these orders, atleast the export market would open up for them.

But how can they improve without any profits? How can L&T improvise and invest in latest technologies and methodologies if they don't get substantial profits?

 

[Srinivas_K]

Don't think Ninda Turtle knows what an LPD is.

They are aircraft carriers only

but much bigger version than India currently have.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars how the things are growing wouldn't be suprised that the Next Generation Cruisers aka Super Destroyers will be equipped with the Beyond Horizon Radars and Mandatory ABM and BM systems onboard. Which will give the ships Beyond 5,000 K.M search and track capabilities and strike capabilities of 2,000 K.M + with current systems that are in development, note the Aegis Onahore ABM Radar An/SPY range is much lower than the Thaad's AN/TPY's 4,800 K.M+ and the numerous AN/SPY 1 radar range is even less in just few hundred K.M's the newer An/SPY will have range in thousand K.M. but still not near any over horizon capabilities. Currently only the dedicated SBX 1 with a single Unit has a range of 2,000 K.M. + , but this will change soon with more less power Hungry and more sophisticated radar that will emerge so the day is not far when a Naval ship based Over the Horizon radar with strike capabilitiesof thousands of K.M's.

(NOTE: The Renders is for representing only and not related to any ABM ships.)

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

Hey guys just sharing an interesting doc of 2004 about the vikramaditya what's interesting is that vik was delivered in 2013 so it shows a prospective of 10 years before that date

 

[shade]

India’s submarine project battles hurdle amid rising China, Pakistan pressures

Foreign contenders for the Project 75 (India) submarine programme have hit a critical obstacle over the air-independent propulsion clause in the deal

www.indiatoday.in

Per this article, they will delay procurement of Project 75i submarines to prevent a single vendor situation since only the German vendor has PrOvEn AiP but the Spanish one doesn't

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

India’s submarine project battles hurdle amid rising China, Pakistan pressures

Foreign contenders for the Project 75 (India) submarine programme have hit a critical obstacle over the air-independent propulsion clause in the deal

www.indiatoday.in

Per this article, they will delay procurement of Project 75i submarines to prevent a single vendor situation since only the German vendor has PrOvEn AiP but the Spanish one doesn't

"at this point why even have a project is oNe VeNdOr sItUatiON is present lets delay it by 10 years !!!!"

-random govt babu

 

[jai jaganath]

India’s submarine project battles hurdle amid rising China, Pakistan pressures

Foreign contenders for the Project 75 (India) submarine programme have hit a critical obstacle over the air-independent propulsion clause in the deal

www.indiatoday.in

Per this article, they will delay procurement of Project 75i submarines to prevent a single vendor situation since only the German vendor has PrOvEn AiP but the Spanish one doesn't

So we have to import
Even if no competitors left we will wait for them to develop and then import
While having a home grown aip and all the necessary building blocks for submarine

Par nahi we will import even if we have to wake up western or Israeli companies from coffin

If we concentrate we can build p-76 faster than this p-75i

 

[shade]

"at this point why even have a project is oNe VeNdOr sItUatiON is present lets delay it by 10 years !!!!"

-random govt babu

It is ironic that the Germans wanted a G2G deal to sell the subs like France got for the 36 Rafales.
But in chutiyo ko contract, tender, single vendor ka khel khelna tha

 

[Mr.Evil007]

India’s submarine project battles hurdle amid rising China, Pakistan pressures

Foreign contenders for the Project 75 (India) submarine programme have hit a critical obstacle over the air-independent propulsion clause in the deal

www.indiatoday.in

Per this article, they will delay procurement of Project 75i submarines to prevent a single vendor situation since only the German vendor has PrOvEn AiP but the Spanish one doesn't

Are they actually serious about this cause if this is true someone gotta be a chinese or paki agent there is no way they don’t know the importance of this deal

 

[mamamia12]

Are they actually serious about this cause if this is true someone gotta be a chinese or paki agent there is no way they don’t know the importance of this deal

What's with IN and its buffoonry on Sub-Surface Combatants?

 

[shade]

Are they actually serious about this cause if this is true someone gotta be a chinese or paki agent there is no way they don’t know the importance of this deal

This single vendor meme has happened before
Because of the PrOvEn AiR InDePnENT PrOpULSiOn requirement.

French, Korean, Russian all backed out and even the German shepherds did

So we have to import
Even if no competitors left we will wait for them to develop and then import
While having a home grown aip and all the necessary building blocks for submarine

Par nahi we will import even if we have to wake up western or Israeli companies from coffin

If we concentrate we can build p-76 faster than this p-75i

With the amount of delays currently it will be better to actually build our own subs with DRDO AIP

 

[jai jaganath]

This single vendor meme has happened before
Because of the PrOvEn AiR InDePnENT PrOpULSiOn requirement.

French, Korean, Russian all backed out and even the German shepherds did




With the amount of delays currently it will be better to actually build our own subs with DRDO AIP

But we will not
We won't even go for G2G deal too
We will sit on files make us more vulnerable and when war comes we can cry and enemy can take it's pound of flesh easily
And some say our organizations are not compromised but rather visionary

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

This single vendor meme has happened before
Because of the PrOvEn AiR InDePnENT PrOpULSiOn requirement.

French, Korean, Russian all backed out and even the German shepherds did




With the amount of delays currently it will be better to actually build our own subs with DRDO AIP

Construction for an additional 3 Scorpene subs has already received AoN and these subs will be equipped with DRDO's PAFC AIP from the get-go.
Agreement for integration of DRDO's AIP on INS Kalvari during MLU has already been signed, why do people keep forgetting that?

Project 76, although not yet officially cleared is chugging along with MDL to present the design of an indigenous SSK by 2028.

Germany will extract an arm and a leg if the program goes into a single vendor scenario, and they aren't exactly trustworthy as seen in the recent past.
Also, their Type 212CD offering carries a massive hydrogen tank onboard, not exactly the safest of options.

 

[jai jaganath]

All we need is will
But also a person like manohar parrikar who can tutor armed forces

 

[shade]

All we need is will
But also a person like manohar parrikar who can tutor armed forces

Perhaps it may also be the "safed-posh afsaran" like a member here calls them, are desperate for even a crumb of pussy kickbacks like their brother-officers in the other two wings of the armed forces enjoy.

 

[Azaad]

Construction for an additional 3 Scorpene subs has already received AoN and these subs will be equipped with DRDO's PAFC AIP from the get-go.
Agreement for integration of DRDO's AIP on INS Kalvari during MLU has already been signed, why do people keep forgetting that?

Project 76, although not yet officially cleared is chugging along with MDL to present the design of an indigenous SSK by 2028.

Germany will extract an arm and a leg if the program goes into a single vendor scenario, and they aren't exactly trustworthy as seen in the recent past.
Also, their Type 212CD offering carries a massive hydrogen tank onboard, not exactly the safest of options.

The entire reason behind getting Navantia to participate was to pressurise ze Germans to be more flexible.

Navantia's participation is a mere formality as they'd be eliminated in the technical round itself. That's the reason we got DSME to withdraw as they were involved in espionage activities plus their sub construction program for the Indonesian Navy turned into a huge mess with TKMS threatening to sue them for IPR infringement apart from other issues.

We didn't want Naval Group to participate as their behaviour during the entire Scorpene design & construction episode left a bitter taste in the mouth which is the reason IN drafted the tech specs the way it did insisting on a working model of the Fuel Cell AIP which NG lacked.

Kockums backed out which we were fine with & we didn't want the Amurs.