ISRO's Reusable Launch Vehicles

[karn]

good but expensive

Really ? Ive never seen a cost quote of the ce 200 vs vikas ? Have it handy ?

 

[AnantS]

Really ? Ive never seen a cost quote of the ce 200 vs vikas ? Have it handy ?

Cryos Are complicated and expensive to manufacture. You need stronger tanks for storage of cryogenic fuel At high pressure. Even production of cryogenic fuels is expensive - remember you need Liquid Oxygen and Liquid Hydrogen to be stored as propellant in those tanks.Low temp and high pressure need to be maintained in those tanks. Even cryos can be health hazard - if high density fuel leaks, they can become a dense gas which if inhaled can lead to Asphyxia.

In case of Vikas: You dont need that much special care for handling fuel as in cryo. And given we are manufacturing Vikas for decades - there is economy of scale advantage here. I dont have Figure myself, maybe you may find the cost figure in one of the RTI's/Audit or Parliament questions.

Inhouse SME on Audits and Capital Expenditures @Chinmoy or @WARREN SS maybe able to point out cost figure in actual.

 

[karn]

Cryos Are complicated and expensive to manufacture. You need stronger tanks for storage of cryogenic fuel At high pressure. Even production of cryogenic fuels is expensive - remember you need Liquid Oxygen and Liquid Hydrogen to be stored as propellant in those tanks. Even cryos can be health hazard - if high density fuel leaks, they can become a dense gas which if inhaled can lead to Asphyxia.

In case of Vikas: You dont need that much special care for handling fuel as in cryo. And given we are manufacturing Vikas for decades - there is economy of scale advantage here.

The fuel that Vikar uses is called the devils venom . If you breath it in the nitrous compounds will react with the moisture in your lungs and form HNO3 .. which will in turn dissolve your lungs. The safety aspect is not less for the vikas.

 

[AnantS]

The fuel that Vikar uses is called the devils venom . If you breath it in the nitrous compounds will react with the moisture in your lungs and form HNO3 .. which will in turn dissolve your lungs. The safety aspect is not less for the vikas.

True - so how many accident like quoted have happened in ISRO in last 50 years? Or why do you think ISRO shall forgo of its established safety protocols during ADMIRE testing?

 

[Rudrayan8920]

Do you guys have any updates on the current status of SCE200 engine ? Has the Ukraine Russian war affected it's time line. Considering it was to be tested in Ukraine.

 

[Rudrayan8920]

Can we use SCE200 engine to develop our own Reusable Launched Vehicle like Falcons 9 ?

Or do we need a Methalox engine for that.

 

[karn]

True - so how many accident like quoted have happened in ISRO in last 50 years? Or why do you think ISRO shall forgo of its established safety protocols during ADMIRE testing?

No clue .. It is just a concern that I have . Atleast if a LOX / Kerosene /Hydrogen rocket crashes . It will harmlessly dissipate.. Not so for the UDMH and N204 combo.

 

[AnantS]

No clue .. It is just a concern that I have . Atleast if a LOX / Kerosene /Hydrogen rocket crashes . It will harmlessly dissipate.. Not so for the UDMH and N204 combo.

so shall UDMH and N204 combo. You are missing point here - Vikas Engines are regularly ground tested. All rocket launches and retrieval happen while ensuring ground staff are at safe distance. Do you think propellant used in defence rockets are all green?

 

[karn]

so shall UDMH and N204 combo. You are missing point here - Vikas Engines are regularly ground tested. All rocket launches and retrieval happen while ensuring ground staff are at safe distance. Do you think propellant used in defence rockets are all green?

Its not about ground testing or how good ISROs safety standards are. Its about how to deal with the inevitable crashes that will happen during landing attempts.

This is what a crashed hypergolic rocket looks like .. notice the yellow smoke. Most of those poor cheens will be having breathing problems for the rest of their lives. As you can see it is not dissipating so fast .. And this is a spent casing .. Admire can crash with a lot of its fuel still not used.
As opposed to a hydrogen / kerlox crash . Hydrogen is even better as it will dissipate harmlessly in seconds .

 

[AnantS]

A) TVP is no STARSHIP. Its even shorter than your PSLV and comparable to SSLV. The amount of fuel carried is low. They shall be doing launch hover and landing tests. Our testing grounds are near to sea, so chances of falling onto Populated area is low.. Even if it falls - the aftermath shall not be as big as the Big chinese rockets or starship you posted. plus GSLV MK2 Boosters fall back in sea everytime it launches.

B) ISRO shall be moving to green fuels once they have that tech ready. Its in their roadmap. Go through this:

C) Given Rate of Failure are high in VL. ISRO cant afford to pay and wait on CE 20 to be churned and burned. Aim in testing would be to fail fast and Try again fast for quick learning and correction.

My last thoughts on this topic

 

[karn]

Do you guys have any updates on the current status of SCE200 engine ? Has the Ukraine Russian war affected it's time line. Considering it was to be tested in Ukraine.

Check in the ISRO thread . There was detailed update a few days back.

 

[TopWatcher]

A) TVP is no STARSHIP. Its even shorter than your PSLV and comparable to SSLV. The amount of fuel carried is low. They shall be doing launch hover and landing tests. Our testing grounds are near to sea, so chances of falling onto Populated area is low.. Even if it falls - the aftermath shall not be as big as the Big chinese rockets or starship you posted. plus GSLV MK2 Boosters fall back in sea everytime it launches.

View attachment 199188

B) ISRO shall be moving to green fuels once they have that tech ready. Its in their roadmap. Go through this:

C) Given Rate of Failure are high in VL. ISRO cant afford to pay and wait on CE 20 to be churned and burned. Aim in testing would be to fail fast and Try again fast for quick learning and correction.

My last thoughts on this topic

But where is the budget ? do we achieve these with tiny budget ?

 

[AnantS]

But where is the budget ? do we achieve these with tiny budget ?

What do you want to achieve which is not work in progress?

 

[TopWatcher]

What do you want to achieve which is not work in progress?

I am talking about timeline given in tweet. Look at RLV it itself takes 20 years to runway.

 

[AnantS]

I am talking about timeline given in tweet. Look at RLV it itself takes 20 years to runway.

oh Timeline.. is simply decorators used in Presentation slides. Think that those timelines have same value as timelines in "Future technology" books published in 1970s. Some technology did get realized but not as fast as they had envisaged.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

RLV Lift off and drop video on Chinook

https://www.isro.gov.in/media_isro/video/RLV_LEX_MISSION.mp4

 

[SavageKing456]

 

[Indx TechStyle]

RLV-ORV seems to have a 300-400kg payload capacity to 350km LEO and can stay in orbit for 1 month.

 

[Varoon2]

Totally unpowered . This is all about finally flying back from orbit and landing on a runway. The full scale version of whatever the RLV TD represents is a mystery.

Backing up a few months, a lay person can understand the concept of gravity, but how would the unpowered RLV safely and accurately reach the runway/ landing site, solely by guidance and navigation? The same lay person would think, that such unfuelled, unpowered flights, would then have implications for other such flights, and not just of RLVs. I know I'm missing something here, what is it?

 

[Varoon2]

Looking at the schematic, I do see that the RLV has thrusters and batteries. And the speed attained would be way too slow for a missile.