Indian Army 155mm Gun Acquisition

[aditya g]

Trying to get my head around the maze of 155mm arty guns in service, on order and under process. There are just too many different tenders, vendors and programs ongoing.

Part-I: Guns which are in service, on order or very close to be ordered:

Even today I would say ~950 guns is a damn good number. While media was busy with hai tauba we quitely inducted 180 M-46 guns which was a good move.

Notes:

1. Highly doubtful that all 410 Bofors guns are still under service. Exact number is a secret i suppose.

2. Assumed 18 guns per regiment and rounded off.

3. "In service" to me means they are inducted into a field regiment of the Army.

 

[aditya g]

Part-II. Guns in pipeline. The acquisition is at a fair stage but no definite orders placed yet.

Notes:

1. Mounted Guns. At this moment we do not even know the winner of the competition so expect this to take 5-10 years at least. The 2 Pinaka regiments ordered in Nov-16 were approved in 2012. That is how long MoD takes to place an order.... so 5-10 years is a reasonable estimate.

2. Dhanush. 300 gun order is a possibility but it is not clear if it is for 52 caliber specifically. For the mean time we have to be content with Dhanush 155/45 which is a superb system as per all available accounts.

3. More M-46 upgrades. It should be OFB but at last news Army issued 1 M-46 to 4 different companies who are officially in the fray.

 

[Hari Sud]

With M777 acquisition and handed over to the strike Corp under preparation, I suggest that China watch out. Chinese capability to get a 1962 type walkover got another setback. There is no need to send IAF, now the M777 can do the job and chop off Chinese advance very quickly.

 

[tejas warrior]

Part-II. Guns in pipeline. The acquisition is at a fair stage but no definite orders placed yet.

View attachment 12082

Notes:

1. Mounted Guns. At this moment we do not even know the winner of the competition so expect this to take 5-10 years at least. The 2 Pinaka regiments ordered in Nov-16 were approved in 2012. That is how long MoD takes to place an order.... so 5-10 years is a reasonable estimate.

2. Dhanush. 300 gun order is a possibility but it is not clear if it is for 52 caliber specifically. For the mean time we have to be content with Dhanush 155/45 which is a superb system as per all available accounts.

3. More M-46 upgrades. It should be OFB but at last news Army issued 1 M-46 to 4 different companies who are officially in the fray.

Saurav jha had twitted this:

414 Dhanush,
1580 ATAGS,
814 MGS,
40 Arjun Catapult,
280 other SPH.
300 + 162 M-46 155 mm

 

[aditya g]

Saurav jha had twitted this:

414 Dhanush,
1580 ATAGS,
814 MGS,
40 Arjun Catapult,
280 other SPH.
300 + 162 M-46 155 mm

Thanks

414 Dhanush, => matches with tables above. 114 Dhanush 155/45 + 300
1580 ATAGS, => Noted
814 MGS, => match
40 Arjun Catapult, => OK, these are 130 mm guns
280 other SPH. => Of these 100 are K-9s. What about 180? Follow on orders for K-9?
300 + 162 M-46 155 mm => match

 

[aditya g]

Updated table incl Part-III

 

[HariPrasad-1]

In discussion of big guns, people forget to remember baba kalyani foel gun. We used to use field gun weighing 4.1 ton having a range of 17 KM. BABA kalyani made light field gun with 900 KG weight and having a range higher than our old field gun. This is a gig plus. It can be air lifted anywhere and can be deployed in no time. We need such innovation.

 

[tejas warrior]

Updated table incl Part-III

Bharat52 is dead. ATAGS has been selected as the way forward.

 

[tejas warrior]

Thanks
280 other SPH. => Of these 100 are K-9s. What about 180? Follow on orders for K-9?

100 tracked self-propelled guns is K9 Vajra. There is a clause of 50 more in contract.

180 wheeled self-propelled guns will be different.. but not decided which one.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/ne...step-towards-meeting-army-s-needs/258123.html

 

[India22]

We got DRDO 155mm 52 Cal gun. We can also upgrade D 30 guns to 155mm. We have currently 200 FH-77B left in service. I dont think India should invest too much on towed Howitzer instead should be on Rocket Artillery, a new 155mm Rocket Artillery is required. But that is different topic.

 

[India22]

Also Dhanush 1 and Dhanush 2 are different with a range gap of 4 kilometers. I dont know how many Dhanush 2 will be ordered.

 

[aditya g]

Thanks. The wheeled SP program is the most confusing.

I would question why you would need a wheeled SP gun if you have both Mounted and Tracked guns in your inventory.

100 tracked self-propelled guns is K9 Vajra. There is a clause of 50 more in contract.

180 wheeled self-propelled guns will be different.. but not decided which one.

View attachment 12092

http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/ne...step-towards-meeting-army-s-needs/258123.html

 

[tejas warrior]

@ kunal-biswas

This thread should be merged with older one.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/indian-army-artillery.5115/page-139#post-1240010

 

[Brij Ray]

In discussion of big guns, people forget to remember baba kalyani foel gun. We used to use field gun weighing 4.1 ton having a range of 17 KM. BABA kalyani made light field gun with 900 KG weight and having a range higher than our old field gun. This is a gig plus. It can be air lifted anywhere and can be deployed in no time. We need such innovation.

I posted the same news in a different thread and I am very keen to know if these breakthroughs have been presented before the defense ministry?

 

[aditya g]

Updated table - comments and corrections welcome:

 

[ezsasa]

Updated table - comments and corrections welcome:

View attachment 12137

will you be able to add the existing ones to your list...
not sure how accurate wiki numbers are regarding existing inventory.

 

[aditya g]

will you be able to add the existing ones to your list...
not sure how accurate wiki numbers are regarding existing inventory.

That's very difficult - the numbers are basically secret and nobody really knows. Since 105mm guns are locally produced by OFB, there is very little press coverage. Even as recently as an year back I recall reading new orders placed for 105mm guns.

Army also apparently imported 130 mm guns in bulk.

 

[Adioz]

will you be able to add the existing ones to your list...
not sure how accurate wiki numbers are regarding existing inventory.

That's very difficult - the numbers are basically secret and nobody really knows.

I read on bharat rakshak site that there are 200 artillery regiments. 1 regiment has 18 guns. So we should have a total of 3600 artillery pieces. Wikipedia puts number of field guns and howitzers at 4250. Army arty rationalization plans also put the number to be somewhere between 3000-4000. I don't understand that 7000 arty pieces figure found in some sources.
(Assuming the number of arty regiments on bharat rakshak site is for field gun and howitzer units and does not include tube and missile arty)

Since 105mm guns are locally produced by OFB, there is very little press coverage. Even as recently as an year back I recall reading new orders placed for 105mm guns.

Army also apparently imported 130 mm guns in bulk.

105 mm guns are also used by BSF. Maybe it was for them?

Also, in your table, you mention 410 Bofors Fh-77Bs, but i read that only 200 are in active service now.
And in your table, you put some round figures on Dhanush 1/2 and M-46 models. IMHO they need to be in multiples of 18, 'cause that is the standard size of a regiment.

Great work BTW, I was looking for this info all over the place and then you summarised it beautifully. Thank you.


Edit: does a tracked SPG regiment have the same organisation and size (18 guns) as a field gun regiment?

 

[Adioz]

@ kunal-biswas

This thread should be merged with older one.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/indian-army-artillery.5115/page-139#post-1240010

@Kunal Biswas Plz do not merge this thread, that indian artillery thread has a much wider discussion scope and people do not read previous posts. So this table would be lost in older pages. Let this one specifically deal with updating @aditya g 's table.

 

[aditya g]

1. 105 mm ordered by Army in 2010;

The Gun Carriage Factory (GCF) at Jabalpur has bagged an order to supply over 150 units of 105-LFGs to the Army over a period of three years starting from May 2010. A source in the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), who was part of the deal, said the order has been hiked on account of increased deployment on the eastern front
....
A senior official at GCF Jabalpur said that the order was received in 2010 and so far 100 pieces have been delivered. Another 50 are expected to be dispatched this year. The source confirmed that this was the biggest order in the recent past......​

2. Various quotes say 50% availability, but there are other sources which quote OFB having maunfactured spares for original Bofors. We simply do not know the exact figure though safe to say that after 3 decades of service number cannot be same. Difficult to estimate what figure to put there.

3. The quantities are as published. The orders will not be exactly multiples for 18 as Army would order some for training establishments & attrition replacements as well.

Thank you for appreciation sir!

......

105 mm guns are also used by BSF. Maybe it was for them?

Also, in your table, you mention 410 Bofors Fh-77Bs, but i read that only 200 are in active service now.

And in your table, you put some round figures on Dhanush 1/2 and M-46 models. IMHO they need to be in multiples of 18, 'cause that is the standard size of a regiment.

Great work BTW, I was looking for this info all over the place and then you summarised it beautifully. Thank you.


Edit: does a tracked SPG regiment have the same organisation and size (18 guns) as a field gun regiment?