In torpedo delay lies opportunity to build domestic industry

[Kunal Biswas]

In torpedo delay lies opportunity to build domestic industry

The ceremony on Monday marking the "undocking" --- or completion of work --- on India's first Scorpene submarine should have occasioned relief. Yet, naval headquarters faces the lingering question: how will the navy's six Scorpenes fight, when their primary weapon --- the Black Shark torpedo --- is blocked by a ministry of defence (MoD) ban on the company chosen to supply them: Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subacquel (WASS) of Italy.

Although the MoD has formally banned only AgustaWestland, all Finmeccanica companies effectively came under a shadow. Amongst the procurements stalled was the purchase from WASS of 98 Black Shark heavyweight torpedoes for six Scorpenes, for about Euro 300 million.

This requires the navy to make do with 64 old SUT torpedoes that were bought a quarter century ago for its four German Shishumar-class submarines.In July 2013 German company, Atlas Elektronik, was contracted to upgrade the SUT torpedoes and to extend their service life by 15 years. Even so, the SUT would retain their old copper wire-guidance systems that are inferior to modern torpedoes

Underwater systems experts, including serving Indian Navy admirals, say WASS' Black Shark torpedo --- now banned --- was always a poor choice. They say the better solution, both tactically and strategically, was the Seahake torpedo that Atlas Elektronik offered, but was controversially pushed down to second place.

Seahake advocates argue that even the Italian Navy rejected the Black Shark, instead choosing Atlas Elektronik torpedoes. As its next-generation choice, Italy has plumped for the F-21 Future Heavyweight Torpedo, that Atlas Elektronik is co-developing with French company, Thales. France too rejected the Black Shark.

The MoD's department of defence production knows that this large customer base allows Atlas Elektronik to maintain cutting-edge capability in all seven torpedo systems --- the homing head; explosive warhead; battery; electronic systems; propulsion system; wire guidance system and propellers.In contrast, WASS outsources entire torpedo systems: Atlas Elektronik supplied the Black Shark's wire-guidance system; a French company supplied the battery. Therefore, a question mark hangs over WASS ability to transfer technology for manufacturing torpedoes in India. In contrast, Atlas Elektronik, which owns 99 per cent of the intellectual property (IP) in its torpedoes, is in a position to transfer technology to India for building torpedo sub-systems and integrating them into complete torpedoes.

India is poised to be the world's biggest torpedo buyer, requiring an estimated 400-600 torpedoes for six Scorpenes being rolled out, six Project 75I submarines on the anvil, and 4-6 nuclear-powered submarines planned.

Instead of issuing piecemeal tenders for small batches of torpedoes, such as the 98 currently being bought for the Scorpene, the MoD can deploy an irresistible strategic offer to induce a full-spectrum vendor like Atlas to "Make in India", in partnership with domestic high-technology companies.

"In the automotive sector, India's massive demand for cars induced international vendors to establish manufacturing facilities here, which then became global hubs. Similarly, our torpedo requirements would surely induce Atlas Elektronik to establish major facilities in India for its global supply chain", says an Indian defence company CEO.

Such a strategic approach would greatly benefit the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO), which is developing an indigenous heavyweight torpedo, named the Varunastra. A strategic relationship with Atlas Elektronik would help resolve technological roadblocks in the Varunastra.

While WASS is an Italian company, Atlas Elektronik is Franco-German. It is 51 per cent owned by ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, with the remaining 49 per cent owned by Airbus.

The United States does not supply torpedoes, while the navy is apprehensive about Russian torpedoes, especially after the sinking of a submarine, INS Sindhurakshak, on August 14, 2013, which sources say was caused when its torpedoes exploded after a battery fire.

Source : Broadsword: In torpedo delay lies opportunity to build domestic industry

 

[Zebra]

Torpedo 2000

As the main armament for submarines, or supplementary armament to missiles on surface attack vessels, Saab offers the Torpedo 2000 – a dual-purpose torpedo system.

New and revolutionary

The new heavyweight, high-performance Torpedo 2000 represents a revolution in terms of tactics, strike probability, flexibility and low life-cycle cost.

 

[Zebra]

Torpedo 617

Torpedo 45

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Varunastra : It is a ship launched heavy weight torpedo(aka Takshak) with enhanced endurance and ranges. BDL has been identified as the production agency and is involved in concurrent engineering mode from design stage. Active homing development is completed and partially proven in field Trials.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/strategic-forces/55-drdo-psu-news-discussion-30.html#post143842

==============

Varunastra is design for ship based torpedo, If asked then DRDO could devlop a Submarine version of Varunastra ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Some pictures i took during DEFEXPO-2014 .. >>

ATLAS SeaHake Torpedo

The German torpedo is chosen as primary torpedo for all Submarines

Rear view

Water Jet and Fiber optic cable

Water Jet and Fiber optic cable

Description

Description

================

Its worth reading the material ..

 

[power_monger]

@Kunal_biswas
But is varunastra Inducted? AFAIK only two test have been conducted and it has not yet been sucessfull. I do not think this weapon is anywhere near completion leave alone modification for submarine based.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Varunastra tests prove torpedo, more soon

February 02, 2015: The DRDO's user evaluation trials of the Varunastra heavy weight torpedo (UET-09, UET-10 & UET-11) that were conducted in Nov 2014 went off successfully, but an intended second round of immediate tests was stalled by an unusual development -- the loss of one of the development torpedoes at sea. During Torpedo Recovery Vessel had sunk in the recovery operations. that's the reason why the Varunastra prototype was lost as well. The Indian Navy and DRDO enlisted the services of survey vessel to provide imagery of the sea bed in the area where the torpedo was believed to have gone down. After several days of scouting for the weapon system, the team had nearly given up hope, though the idea of abandoning the lost Varunastra was not considered given that the unit would contain crucial and indispensable performance data that would facilitate the next round of trials. Finally on December 23 last year, more than a month after the torpedo was lost, it was located and then fished out from the sea bed using a wire mesh mechanism that was extremely difficult to carry out. Sources say summer trials of the Varunastra are slated for April 2015, before final confirmatory trials towards the end of the year, before deployment in service and configuration for surface platforms.


Varunastra tests prove torpedo more soon - SP's MAI

====================

User trails are done, These test are probably validation Trails after that it will entering service ..

@Kunal_biswas
But is varunastra Inducted? AFAIK only two test have been conducted and it has not yet been sucessfull. I do not think this weapon is anywhere near completion leave alone modification for submarine based.

 

[Zebra]

Torpedo 2000

SAAB Bofors underwater systems : Torpedo 2000 Dual purpose torpedo

Published on May 29, 2014, by cloundy078

 

[LETHALFORCE]

What acquisition aside from USA has there not been a delay? There has not been 0ne indigenous development from it.

 

[syncro]

Underwater systems experts, including serving Indian Navy admirals, say WASS™ Black Shark torpedo --- now banned --- was always a poor choice. They say the better solution, both tactically and strategically, was the Seahake torpedo that Atlas Elektronik offered, but was controversially pushed down to second place.
Click to expand...

Seahake advocates argue that even the Italian Navy rejected the Black Shark, instead choosing Atlas Elektronik torpedoes. As its next-generation choice, Italy has plumped for the F-21 Future Heavyweight Torpedo, that Atlas Elektronik is co-developing with French company, Thales. France too rejected the Black Shark.

Source : Broadsword: In torpedo delay lies opportunity to build domestic industry

The article is full of bullshit and FUD.

The BlackShark is widely regarded as superior to SeaHake and the the new BlackShark Advanced (BSA) is clearly better of the BlackShark.

The Italian Navy has only WASS torpedos ( A184 mod. 3, BlackShark and BlackShark Advanced).

The French F-21 torpedo is basically a BackShark (for example DCNS for the F-21 build, under WASS license and TOT, the electric motor and the aluminium silver-oxide battery of first generation BlackShark), with part of the electronic co-developed by Thales and Atlas Elektronik.

The BlackShark Advanced has a new more powerfull Lithium-Polymer battery... so licensed the tech of aluminium silver-oxide battery to a close partner as DCNS is not a problem for WASS.

Taught me that when you see false information to try to sell or advertise a product, it means that that product sucks. (and in any case we italians pay better bribe of the Germans).

 

[Assasincreed7]

Varunastra tests prove torpedo, more soon

February 02, 2015: The DRDO's user evaluation trials of the Varunastra heavy weight torpedo (UET-09, UET-10 & UET-11) that were conducted in Nov 2014 went off successfully, but an intended second round of immediate tests was stalled by an unusual development -- the loss of one of the development torpedoes at sea. During Torpedo Recovery Vessel had sunk in the recovery operations. that's the reason why the Varunastra prototype was lost as well. The Indian Navy and DRDO enlisted the services of survey vessel to provide imagery of the sea bed in the area where the torpedo was believed to have gone down. After several days of scouting for the weapon system, the team had nearly given up hope, though the idea of abandoning the lost Varunastra was not considered given that the unit would contain crucial and indispensable performance data that would facilitate the next round of trials. Finally on December 23 last year, more than a month after the torpedo was lost, it was located and then fished out from the sea bed using a wire mesh mechanism that was extremely difficult to carry out. Sources say summer trials of the Varunastra are slated for April 2015, before final confirmatory trials towards the end of the year, before deployment in service and configuration for surface platforms.


Varunastra tests prove torpedo more soon - SP's MAI

====================

User trails are done, These test are probably validation Trails after that it will entering service ..

I was a member of the torpedo recovery team.....

 

[LETHALFORCE]

It always puzzles me how small nations like Sweden, Israel etc have indigenous capability with their small populations and how India with one million engineers has trouble with weapons that are 100 years old. I am speculating it is the result decades of rampant corruption.