Four years, 33 combat plane crashes, 27 MIGs lost

[JAYRAM]

Published March 19, 2012

The Indian Air Force (IAF) lost 33 combat jets in the last four years, 27 of them MiGs of various variants, parliament was informed Monday. Ten helicopters also crashed during this period.

Twenty-six defence personnel, including 13 pilots, lost their lives in these crashes, Defence Minister A.K. Antony told the Lok Sabha during question hour.

From April 1, 2008 to March 13 this year, 27 MiGs – 16 of them MiG-21s – three Sukhoi SU-30s, two Mirage-2000s and a Jaguar had crashed, he added.

Ten helicopters had also crashed during this period.

Six civilians were also killed in the crashes.

"From 2008-09 to March 13, 2012, 33 fighter aircraft including a Jaguar, two Mirage-2000, three Sukhoi-30 and 27 MiG series aircraft (including 16 MiG-21 series) and 10 helicopters of IAF have crashed. In the above accidents, 26 defence personnel, including 13 pilots have lost their lives. In addition, six civilians have also lost their lives," Antony said.

He also noted that a majority of the accidents were on account of human error and technical defects.

Every IAF aircraft accident is thoroughly investigated by a court of inquiry (Col) to ascertain its cause of accident. Remedial measures are taken to prevent their recurrence in future, he added

"However, improvement of skills of pilots is a continuous process. Several steps have been taken by the government in this regard," Antony said.

These include increased use of simulators to practice procedures and emergency actions, focused and realistic training with additional emphasis on the critical aspects of mission, introduction of crew resource management and operational risk management to enable safe mission launches, aviation psychology courses and introduction of aerospace safety capsules in the initial phases of training of aircrew.

"The decisions to phase out aircraft are taken based on various factors including residual life of the aircraft and operational considerations and is reviewed by the government from time to time. This is a continuous process," Antony added.

Four years, 33 combat plane crashes, 27 MIGs lost | idrw.org

 

[Armand2REP]

That's nearly enough equipment to outfit an African air force.

 

[Vishwarupa]

Published March 19, 2012
He also noted that a majority of the accidents were on account of human error and technical defects.[/I][/B]

Is IAF training so bad?

 

[Blackwater]

Published March 19, 2012
He also noted that a majority of the accidents were on account of human error and technical defects.[/I][/B]

Is IAF training so bad?

what u expect when they get flying training on surya kiran a 40 yrs old plane and then they move to mig-21 or 27. they can not handle the speed. It's like u learn how to drive car on ambassador and then give u Ferrari to drive

 

[satish007]

what u expect when they get flying training on surya kiran a 40 yrs old plane and then they move to mig-21 or 27. they can not handle the speed. It's like u learn how to drive car on ambassador and then give u Ferrari to drive

I don't like this comparison. i like Ambassador but how can I image Ferrari, I have not idea what's skill I need to drive it.
share with us blackwater.

 

[lcatejas]

Its sad that its was not crashed on any ministers or babu's house...

 

[agentperry]

training to indian armed forces is more of a physical training session. they are given good physical fitness training but not what a professional army, air force or navy requires. an army, airforce and navy of a nation are the services where mistakes are not allowed and hell with mistake these forces are known for making blunders on daily basis.

 

[jackprince]

training to indian armed forces is more of a physical training session. they are given good physical fitness training but not what a professional army, air force or navy requires. an army, airforce and navy of a nation are the services where mistakes are not allowed and hell with mistake these forces are known for making blunders on daily basis.

And how did you come to know about this enlightening fact? Have you been through any of them?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

And how did you come to know about this enlightening fact? Have you been through any of them?

"Dont you know, Indian navy is a port navy and Indian Army shoots catapult.. "

By agentperry

 

[Tshering22]

Is IAF training so bad?

It is not about training. It is about getting equipment that is of the right timespan in. YOu fly a jet bought in 60s now, naturally it will crash. Our MOD needs to be changed.

 

[Sunder singh]

most of them r due to human error

 

[W.G.Ewald]

most of them r due to human error

From the article:

...a majority of the accidents were on account of human error and technical defects. Every IAF aircraft accident is thoroughly investigated by a court of inquiry (Col) to ascertain its cause of accident.

There seem to be detailed information here:

Warbirds of India - [Air Crash Listings of the Indian Air Forces]

 

[pmaitra]

GirishBharath, BlackWater, Satish007:

When you open a quote using opening tags, please take care to close them using closing tags.

[ Q U O T E = <username> ; <postnumber> ]
Quoted text.
[ / Q U O T E ]

< remove the spaces in the square brackets>

 

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

training to indian armed forces is more of a physical training session. they are given good physical fitness training but not what a professional army, air force or navy requires. an army, airforce and navy of a nation are the services where mistakes are not allowed and hell with mistake these forces are known for making blunders on daily basis.

any strong evidnce to support these absurd these statements. or u are one of those who pass judgements without a proper trial.


on another note, in my interactions with IAF officers i have been able to bring out some problems which have not been rectified:

1. lack of simulators : there is acute shortage of simulators in IAF in western forces simulator flying is essential before a pilot gets to fly in real aircraft. simulators are employed for "conversion to new plane" or "instrument flying" or "continuity flying". simulators can be used for variety of roles. unfortunately IAF has yet to realise the importance of simulators. the fact that a simulator is almost two to three times costlier than plane is an important fact. however in long run the cost hets nullified.

2. Lack of Advance Jet trainer: surely the Hawk has been pretty good service and bridging the gap between Kiran MK2s and Mig 21s but that has come too late. Mig 21 has one of the highest landing speed in the world even adequate flying on Kiran is sometimes not able to stop people from making mistake.

3. Age old planes : each plane has its calender and technical life. almost all migs except Mig 29 are way past their calender life. for how long can u hope to fly 30 year old planes in real time combat situations. latest mig aircraft Mig 29 is already 25 yrs old. and it is supposed to be the best Mig fighter in india. Jaguars are already touching 30yrs. Mirage is also touching 25. as the time period increase the technical defects increase.

4. review of operational/maintenance practices: i think it is time that IAF carries out a full review of operations and maintenance practices. i have heard IAF is facing severe shortage of technical manpower. these are the people who maintain planes. if there is shortage of them then clearly they r overworked and under pressure because the operations have to go on. it is not a healthy scenari i hope steps r being taken to rectify the problem but we should know that it takes years to train a person to carry out servicing/maintenance of these planes.

 

[ace009]

"Human error" is an euphemism - similar to "died because his heart stopped".
Most often Human error happens because of -

1. Lack of training or lack of understanding of training
2. Lack of procedures/ processes or not following existing processes
3. Lack of strategic/ tactical planning or inadequecies in such planning
4. Bad equipment maintenance giving rise to unpleasant surprises
5. Bad / outdated equipment

Now of these, the Pilots are at most at fault for only the first two, if at all. The supporting personnel will be responsible for 2 and 4, but only partially.
The leaders are responsible for each and every one of these mistakes. So, if ANY former or current (or future) Air-Chief points one finger to "Human error" then they should have 5 fingers pointed at them.

AFAIK, IAF has a real problem with equipment shortage - due to US bans, MoD/ GoI lack of vision, IAF leaderships inability to push for reforms in procurement and obviously HALs inability to deliver on time.
Blaming the personnel for all these crashes are typical of endemic problems in Indian organizations.

 

[p2prada]

"Human error" is an euphemism - similar to "died because his heart stopped".
Most often Human error happens because of -

1. Lack of training or lack of understanding of training
2. Lack of procedures/ processes or not following existing processes
3. Lack of strategic/ tactical planning or inadequecies in such planning
4. Bad equipment maintenance giving rise to unpleasant surprises
5. Bad / outdated equipment

In general terms as to what is defined as human error cover only the first two points. The rest are maintenance and obsolescence.

AFAIK, IAF has a real problem with equipment shortage - due to US bans, MoD/ GoI lack of vision, IAF leaderships inability to push for reforms in procurement and obviously HALs inability to deliver on time.
Blaming the personnel for all these crashes are typical of endemic problems in Indian organizations.

Neither the US nor IAF are to blame for the current shortage of aircraft. US can't do sh!t to us in this regard. IAF has been begging GoI for Mirage-2000s since 1999. HAL, you can say they are to blame but they are nowhere as compared to DRDO. HAL's delays are almost always rectified in a year or two. Even the difficult but robust MKI program is going to see a delay of one year. But DRDO's delays span generations.

LCA is to blame for the current shortage. ADA promised something and never delivered. GoI pressured IAF to keep waiting for ADA to deliver. IAF has never stopped laughing since. Today, IN has joined the chorus too.