WTH is economics?

[Yusuf]

if you can tell me what return you are looking at, i could then look at a few things. do let me know. if i forget checking out this thread, PM me.

Or he can give it to me!'

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Or he can give it to me!'

infact i had a similar thing in mind though he is asking for way too much. reasonable return and i could look at it .

what's the market lending rate yusuf these days. market as in local market.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Inversely the high external debt ration also positively on the economic dynamism of Industrialized west.Whatever capital the economic outside the industrialized world managed to generated was invested in the west,hence generated more capital in the west,non industrialized economy simply didn't,most still dont,have enabling economic environment to where these limited capital could be profitably employed.While the the much needed capital desperately required by the developing world flowed to the west,most developing countries themselves became indentured to an economic system, where huge debt serving, left very little for development.

A debt ridden economy is not any sign of economic decay,most of the global economy runs on the back of huge and ever increasing size of borrowed capital ,but what we do with it.West produced an economic class,including entrepreneurs,who helped build a growth oriented and self sustaining economy,the developing world ended producing economic elites,whose prosperity was directly proportional to the amount of capital they directed from the developing world to the industrialized west.

Capital,accumulated over many decades of dynamic economic growth,will not flee the west because they are having a crisis of confidence,most of the developing world,with odd honorable exceptions, is riddled with political instability and resultant economic uncertainty,capital is much safer invested in entities which may lack economic confidence,than where uncertainty rules.

Japan is dormant,SE Asia has slacked off,India and China are doing better,but their overall dynamism comes from very limited sectors of the economy, which cannot generate more than what it already is doing.The money is going nowhere,west is still the best bet.

So basically they will be working to end their debt and their economies will stagnate or shrink because everything they work for will go for debt re-payment and that would mean slow GDP growth.

Also the west does not lack economic confidence, what it lacks is money which means capital accumulated over decades is under debt and longer exists.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

50% return means what?

50% return yearly, ie is 16.67% or 150% annualized?

given the present market situation, you are expecting way too much. give me a more realistic figure. do you run a bisuness, generally asking.

I am not giving my money to either of your scum Hawala scamsters cases.

What returns can i expect and do you suggest an MF right now?

 

[tarunraju]

Last time they started WW2 over it, just destroy the nations you owe money to.

Thats not why WW-2 happened, that happened because Hitler wanted to rule Europe.

The whole point here is someone has to make sense to me here. How will they bail themselves out or does it mean USA and EU will end up like Somalia?

You are both right. Hitler went to war because he wanted to destroy the countries Germany owed money to, after WWI.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

I am not giving my money to either of your scum Hawala scamsters cases.

What returns can i expect and do you suggest an MF right now?

lol, no nothing man.

rest assured it will be a all clean deal, and on the paper.

MFs really depends. for short term completely equity based is the best option and or commodity related. do a medium chip-blue chip fund.

returns - cant say, if the global uncertainties continue, the market can tank, though things look to have stabilized. mind you indian market this year has under performed so far, so it might remain the same way as well, which means no returns as well.

 

[S.A.T.A]

West will have to continue to work hard,not just to service debts,but to rebuild a economy that makes servicing such a huge debt sustainable.Debt is not so much repaid as it is owed,capital is never left idle,that would be a calumny,it must remain invested where the best returns and reliable,sustained growth for the capital can be ensured.This is where industrialized west,particularly USA,exercise their advantage.

Take for eg China and the large investments it has sustained in US govt bonds,even if China suspected America's ability to service the debts owed to it or even repay,if it came to that,what can they do.Where else can can China invest this capital,not at home for the fear of triggering a inflation crisis,which will just make the capital vanish.Not in Europe,Europe is in much greater liquidity crisis than US,and this is just the beginning.If it resorted to buying commodities,how much gold for example could it buy(couple of tens of billions at best)

While the industrialized west needs to get back to profitable ways,there is no real fear among them about likelihood of any fear of flight of capital,given its vast industrial-technological innovation base,economic dynamism sustained by a consumerist population,west is still the very last place on earth from where to pull your money out off.

 

[Armand2REP]

Just look at the debt level of each country in this index!!!

US has 97% of its GDP in Debt
UK has 400% of its GDP in debt!!
List of countries by external debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So theoretically it is impossible for the west to recover. So what are they going to do? How will they pay China? and if USA is not paying China for all the goods it exported then China is going bankrupt too?


Also how did they allow this debt to raise so high, has this been wantedly and consciously done so as to slow the developing economies?

Please explain this freaknomics to me.

You have to understand what consists of external debt. The majority of it is foreign liabilities of the banks which are backed by an equal value of foreign assets. That is why economists don't freak out about it.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

You have to understand what consists of external debt. The majority of it is foreign liabilities of the banks which are backed by an equal value of foreign assets. That is why economists don't freak out about it.

I dont get the foreign assets part, what constitute as being foreign assets?

 

[Armand2REP]

I dont get the foreign assets part, what constitute as being foreign assets?

Most of it is loan swapping like a French bank swapping a fixed-rate loan for a floating German loan. All the countries with huge external debts also have the largest banking sectors which are backed up by collateral whether it be mortgage based or monetary based. So the real debt minus assets is hardly worth getting worked up about.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Most of it is loan swapping like a French bank swapping a fixed-rate loan for a floating German loan. All the countries with huge external debts also have the largest banking sectors which are backed up by collateral whether it be mortgage based or monetary based. So the real debt minus assets is hardly worth getting worked up about.

So Is there any statics or report on real debt minus assets? How much does it work up to in that case?

It appears the west is in danger mark even if you do consider it that way?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_international_investment_position

 

[Armand2REP]

Considering most of the advanced countries are in the black, I don't see how you see it that way. Looking at 2009 will be worse than it is this year.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Considering most of the advanced countries are in the black, I don't see how you see it that way.

No, It shows most of the advanced countries are in the red. Which means their debt is higher than their assets. Unless you show some sources which tell me other wise.

 

[Armand2REP]

Like I said before, 2009 is worse than this year and most banks and companies sold liabilities since then. Most advanced countries are in the black, you will just have to wait for a current NIIP account. Whether it is a little in the Red or nothing but black, it is not a financial collapse as you think with all the naysayers who know nothing about economics.

 

[The Messiah]

Like I said before, 2009 is worse than this year and most banks and companies sold liabilities since then. Most advanced countries are in the black, you will just have to wait for a current NIIP account. Whether it is a little in the Red or nothing but black, it is not a financial collapse as you think with all the naysayers who know nothing about economics.

The euro is in shambles. If germany opts out then you'll all go down the shitter.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Like I said before, 2009 is worse than this year and most banks and companies sold liabilities since then. Most advanced countries are in the black, you will just have to wait for a current NIIP account. Whether it is a little in the Red or nothing but black, it is not a financial collapse as you think with all the naysayers who know nothing about economics.

Again i am asking you statics and sources and your throwing rhetoric. We are trying to learn here not embarrass each other.

 

[pack leader]

in the long run europe is doomed and america needs restructuring

i don't care what some economist writes this is the reality :
aging and shrinking indigenous population + low birth rate +state sponsored socialism + economically useless politically unstable Islamic immigration= complete destruction
one can claim this to be suicide by homosexuality and condoms
i thank god America and Israel chose another path

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Its not all that bad, the Americas net worth in assets like houses, factories, roads etc., is 70 trillion dollars. Their debt is some where around 14trillion dollars but its larger than their GDP. Even then they can pay it off either with derivatives or other instruments!

Instead of rambling on the silly uneducated superficial level of birth rate and Islam, its better to read deeply to get an picture.
Financial position of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[pack leader]

Its not all that bad, the Americas net worth in assets like houses, factories, roads etc., is 70 trillion dollars. Their debt is some where around 14trillion dollars but its larger than their GDP. Even then they can pay it off either with derivatives or other instruments!

Instead of rambling on the silly uneducated superficial level of birth rate and Islam, its better to read deeply to get an picture.
Financial position of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1) i was referring to Europe
2) try to refute my claim by any means !!!

 

[Godless-Kafir]

1) i was referring to Europe
2) try to refute my claim by any means !!!

WTH!! You mean Europe's debt crises is because of Islam and stagnating population? We are discussing how present debt crises has occurred and your talking of social issues of the future not economics. Dont say next that both are linked, the current problem has nothing to do with Islam or population.