Whose Chinese Military Is It?

Kunal Biswas

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Whose Chinese Military Is It?

Hu Jintao's seeming lack of control over the PLA should worry Washington.
Chinese President Hu Jintao has completed his state visit to Washington, having received the welcoming ceremony and state dinner that he is said to have long sought. But the "deliverables" from the visit seem scant -- a few trade deals and some bland remarks promising better cooperation. If little was expected and even less delivered at the summit, it may be because Hu lacks the authority to produce significant results from his own government. On the eve of Hu's arrival in Washington, aNew York Times article questioned the Chinese president's authority over a wide range of controversial issues, including China's exchange rate policy, its trade barriers, and its influence over North Korea.

If that is so, does the Chinese president's weakness extend to his control over the military? There have been numerous instances over the past 15 years of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) running on a seemingly very long leash. In 1995 and 2005, Chinese generals made specific threats, in the presence of the U.S. ambassador to China and to foreign journalists visiting Beijing, of nuclear attacks against U.S. cities. In 2001, when a U.S. patrol plane made an emergency landing on Hainan Island after colliding with a Chinese fighter, China's military leadership did not cooperate with its civilian counterparts in quickly resolving the incident. And the PLA's destruction in 2007 of a weather satellite using a ground-launched missile took the government by surprise and left the Foreign Ministry unable to respond to international concerns for 10 days. These cases of apparently roguish behavior by the PLA are most likely the result of the military's bureaucratic independence. But they are also carefully calculated attempts to bolster the credibility of China's military deterrence.

This seeming lack of control was worryingly highlighted last week when China conducted an unusually public test flight of its new stealth fighter during U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates's visit to the country, an action some considered to be a rude provocation. The affront was compounded when it became apparent that Hu was kept in the dark about the test. Later in Tokyo, after himself listing several incidents that raised more questions about who in China is in charge, Gates asserted that "there is no doubt in my mind that it is President Hu Jintao and the civilian leadership of that government." But merely having to address such a question seems to be evidence of an unsettling problem.

A 2009 research paper by Andrew Scobell, a China scholar then at Texas A&M University, discussed the apparent gap that exists between the country's civilian and military leadership. Scobell attributes this gap to differences in the culture and experiences of China's military and civilian leaders. For China, this divergence is a relatively recent phenomenon. Mao Zedong and Deng Xiaoping, who led the People's Republic from its founding into the early 1990s, had very deep experience in both military and civilian political roles. The recent generations of Communist Party leaders have, for the most part, lacked much if any military experience. As a result, according to Scobell, the PLA has achieved a large measure of bureaucratic independence compared with the Mao and Deng eras. It doesn't help that the staffing of the supervisory Central Military Commission is composed entirely of senior military officers except for Hu and, very recently, his likely successor, Xi Jinping.

Although the incidents cited above are indications that the PLA occasionally operates under very loose control from civilian leaders, there is, according to Scobell, a large portion of premeditation in this arrangement that seems to suit both the military and civilian leadership ranks. Scobell asserts that PLA leaders have delivered seemingly bellicose remarks and used incidents such as the 2001 Hainan Island patrol plane incident and the 2007 anti-satellite test in a calculated manner to bolster the PLA's authority and display its determination to use force when it considers it necessary to defend China's interests. Most notable in this regard is the PLA's displays of determination to use force if necessary to establish China's sovereignty over Taiwan, in the hope of deterring U.S. intervention should a crisis over the island occur. But even if the PLA's leaders display bellicosity and independence, the ends they are attempting to achieve match those of the civilian leadership.

Should a military crisis occur, ambiguity over who controls the Chinese military could increase the risk of miscalculation and miscommunication for diplomats scrabbling to avoid a war. China's leaders may hope that their calculated ambiguity will deter a U.S. response during a crisis. But if this gambit fails, such a crisis might end up messier than it would need to be.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/01/21/this_week_at_war_whos_chinese_military_is_it
 

Tshering22

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Thanks for the topic Kunal. You know, This is what I was arguing with kickok1975 dude. He and most Chinese people in general seem to be nice and normal; even Hu and Wen keep praising in soft tones, and keep harping about peace and harmony and respect and do all the trade and stuff. But for some reason, the PLA does the opposite:

-Gobbling down other's territories
-Threatening other nations
-Ramming boats into other nation's territories and staking claims
-Claiming totally unrelated islands as their territory.

I even asked this question to a lot of Chinese members who seem to be confused themselves or don't wish to share the concern: is CCP really in control of PLA or not? Because both of them are doing opposite of each other. Because trust me, if tomorrow PLA becomes too hard to control and if it ends up becoming a coup, We will have to dethrone MMS and Co. as a response and press hardline right wing into action too as a safety precaution.
 

JustForLaughs

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this is basic good cop bad cop. or rather hawks and doves. how funny people think its weak internal function.
 

houde10000

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It is too silly to argue about CCP control PLA

Thanks for the topic Kunal. You know, This is what I was arguing with kickok1975 dude. He and most Chinese people in general seem to be nice and normal; even Hu and Wen keep praising in soft tones, and keep harping about peace and harmony and respect and do all the trade and stuff. But for some reason, the PLA does the opposite:

-Gobbling down other's territories
-Threatening other nations
-Ramming boats into other nation's territories and staking claims
-Claiming totally unrelated islands as their territory.

I even asked this question to a lot of Chinese members who seem to be confused themselves or don't wish to share the concern: is CCP really in control of PLA or not? Because both of them are doing opposite of each other. Because trust me, if tomorrow PLA becomes too hard to control and if it ends up becoming a coup, We will have to dethrone MMS and Co. as a response and press hardline right wing into action too as a safety precaution.
you image the world how look like, then you believe it. If you know a little history about CCP,

"Hu doesn't know J20 maiden fly", all chinese know it is just a joking, PLA is not a national amry, it is mostly a CCP army. China is stable because Chinese communist party can firmly control PLA.
 

Kunal Biswas

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China is wealthier and mightier than before, The product of all those decades of nationalist education and teaching kids "national humiliation" has meant that China see Asia as its sphere of influence and will not accept other wise.
 

redragon

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China is wealthier and mightier than before, The product of all those decades of nationalist education and teaching kids "national humiliation" has meant that China see Asia as its sphere of influence and will not accept other wise.
Obviously, you can't tell between your own delusion and truth.
 

pmaitra

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The outside garb of CCP notwithstanding, there are many in PRC who have this nationalistic feeling which have been nurtured by quite a few and the comments of some members, especially the glorifying references to earlier Chinese Empires, like the Qing Dynasty etc., does indicate the possibility of the PLA not necessarily toeing the CCP line. Whether PRC is losing control of its PLA or not is a matter of speculation right now, but we know what happened when the USSR was collapsing.
 

civfanatic

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The outside garb of CCP notwithstanding, there are many in PRC who have this nationalistic feeling which have been nurtured by quite a few and the comments of some members, especially the glorifying references to earlier Chinese Empires, like the Qing Dynasty etc., does indicate the possibility of the PLA not necessarily toeing the CCP line. Whether PRC is losing control of its PLA or not is a matter of speculation right now, but we know what happened when the USSR was collapsing.
The Qing was a foreign dynasty. Feeling proud of territorial conquests made by a foreign government whose territorial conquests happened to include your own home seems rather stupid to me.
 

houde10000

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Manzhou was Ming (Han) dynasty subsidiary, Qing Empire regarded themself as chinese

The Qing was a foreign dynasty. Feeling proud of territorial conquests made by a foreign government whose territorial conquests happened to include your own home seems rather stupid to me.
Mr. civfanatic,

It is nothing stupid, you know nothing about chinese history. Manzhou was a part of Ming dynasty, the first empire of Qing dynasty was also Ming's local officer, Manzhou was chinese Ming Empire subsidiary. And Qing Empire regards themself as chinese.

Today, there are still 8 million Manzhou people living in China, and they are all chinese citizen, there is no Manzhou or Qing country in world today!!! But there is a UK in the world.
 

kickok1975

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These belong to our "mighty" Chinese PLA. They are as corrupted as their master CCP. I don't know if they can regain some "Glories" soon



 
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p2prada

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Because trust me, if tomorrow PLA becomes too hard to control and if it ends up becoming a coup, We will have to dethrone MMS and Co. as a response and press hardline right wing into action too as a safety precaution.
If a coup happens, we will not have to do anything. Sanctions and stopping FDI will automatically disintegrate the nation.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Obviously, you can't tell between your own delusion and truth.
Isn't PLA is a self-managed organization with its own finances(PLA owns lots of corporations) ?
Isn't Within PLA, there are several PLA regional division leadership struggling for power. ?

You believe, what u see..
 

tony4562

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Isn't PLA is a self-managed organization with its own finances(PLA owns lots of corporations) ?
Isn't Within PLA, there are several PLA regional division leadership struggling for power. ?

You believe, what u see..
The PLA was ordered out of the money-making business long ago in the 90's, that's why money PLA-owned businesses like United Airlines had to cease their operations.

But PLA has since been compensated very well, and its officers too, from top to bottom, are being paid very well as well these days.

However its just outsider's wishful thinking that there is any discoehesion between the PLA and the CCP top. Any officer of the PLA must be a member of the CCP, and there is party organization on every level and in every unit of the PLA. Every general owes their stars to either Jiang or Hu, no exception. There is however, very possible that there exists factions within the PLA.

China today is run, in all practical sense, by a collection of around 500 powerful families, mostly descendants of the old revolutionaries.
 

badguy2000

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The PLA was ordered out of the money-making business long ago in the 90's, that's why money PLA-owned businesses like United Airlines had to cease their operations.

But PLA has since been compensated very well, and its officers too, from top to bottom, are being paid very well as well these days.

However its just outsider's wishful thinking that there is any discoehesion between the PLA and the CCP top. Any officer of the PLA must be a member of the CCP, and there is party organization on every level and in every unit of the PLA. Every general owes their stars to either Jiang or Hu, no exception. There is however, very possible that there exists factions within the PLA.

China today is run, in all practical sense, by a collection of around 500 powerful families, mostly descendants of the old revolutionaries.
it reminds me of the conspracies such as Skull and Bones,Rothschild Family........etc..
 

badguy2000

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If a coup happens, we will not have to do anything. Sanctions and stopping FDI will automatically disintegrate the nation.
Under current Chinese system, the possiblity of a successful military coup is zero
 

nimo_cn

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If people knows about the story between 项英(Xiangying) and 叶挺(Yeting), they will know how tight CCP has been controlling PLA.

I believe Hu will be most amused by the rumor that he had no idea about the maiden flight of J20.
 

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