Who do Indians like: Russia or USA?

[ghost]

LOL, both of them sold India to China for Chinese support of Cuba Criss. You can call it "backstabbing".

USSR: stop aid to India, and Khrushchev " we cannot remain neutral...China is our ally".
US: forced Nehru not to use air force.

BTW, China did not support neither of them at that criss, so they started to aid India again after the criss.

The Soviet Union's strong relations with India had a negative impact upon both Soviet relations with the People's Republic of China, and Indian relations with the PRC, during the Khrushchev period. The Soviet Union declared its neutrality during the 1959 border dispute and the Sino-Indian war of October 1962, although the Chinese strongly objected. The Soviet Union gave India substantial economic and military assistance during the Khrushchev period, and by 1960 India had received more Soviet assistance than China had. This disparity became another point of contention in Sino-Soviet relations. In 1962 the Soviet Union agreed to transfer technology to co-produce the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 jet fighter in India, which the Soviet Union had earlier denied to China.

 

[CCP]

The Soviet Union's strong relations with India had a negative impact upon both Soviet relations with the People's Republic of China, and Indian relations with the PRC, during the Khrushchev period. The Soviet Union declared its neutrality during the 1959 border dispute and the Sino-Indian war of October 1962, although the Chinese strongly objected. The Soviet Union gave India substantial economic and military assistance during the Khrushchev period, and by 1960 India had received more Soviet assistance than China had. This disparity became another point of contention in Sino-Soviet relations. In 1962 the Soviet Union agreed to transfer technology to co-produce the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 jet fighter in India, which the Soviet Union had earlier denied to China.

Read my post carefully.

I said
"stop aid to India" - did I said USSR is not support India before 1962?

"started to aid India again after the criss" - did I said USSR is not support India after 1962?

and the Sino-Indian war of October 1962

Bu** sh*t.

Khrushchev " we cannot remain neutral...China is our ally". - Did I deny USSR declare neutral before 1962?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War
"Given his foreknowledge of the coming Cuban Missile Crisis, Mao Zedong was able to persuade Nikita Khrushchev to reverse the Russian policy of backing India, at least temporarily. In mid-October, the Communist organ Pravda encouraged peace between India and China. When the Cuban Missile Crisis ended and Mao's rhetoric changed, however, Russia reversed course."



Sino-Soviet split after USSR denied to transfer Nuclear submarine technology (1958).
But Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance and Mutual Assistance expired in 1979（which allowed China to attack Vietnam）

So, that is why Khrushchev still can call China as an ally (technically）....

Everything happened in just about 2 months.

 

[Pratap]

Read my post carefully.

I said
"stop aid to India" - did I said USSR is not support India before 1962?

"started to aid India again after the criss" - did I said USSR is not support India after 1962?



Bu** sh*t.

Khrushchev " we cannot remain neutral...China is our ally". - Did I deny USSR declare neutral before 1962?

Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Given his foreknowledge of the coming Cuban Missile Crisis, Mao Zedong was able to persuade Nikita Khrushchev to reverse the Russian policy of backing India, at least temporarily. In mid-October, the Communist organ Pravda encouraged peace between India and China. When the Cuban Missile Crisis ended and Mao's rhetoric changed, however, Russia reversed course."



Sino-Soviet split after USSR denied to transfer Nuclear submarine technology (1958).
But Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance and Mutual Assistance expired in 1979（which allowed China to attack Vietnam）

So, that is why Khrushchev still can call China as an ally (technically）....

Everything happened in just about 2 months.

Good that you gave a chinese perspective to all this.

 

[Pratap]

LOL, both of them sold India to China for Chinese support of Cuba Criss. You can call it "backstabbing".

USSR: stop aid to India, and Khrushchev " we cannot remain neutral...China is our ally".
US: forced Nehru not to use air force.

BTW, China did not support neither of them at that criss, so they started to aid India again after the criss.

You are right as the book I have tells me that Soviet spokesman supported Chinese claims on border somewhere around 29OCT. USA did not allow Nehru to use airforce for it knew that India would then be even more destroyed. JK Galbraith's advice was good and well intentioned for Indians. If Chinese could destroy so many combat aircrafts of US Airforce(korean war)what were chances of Indian Air Force resisting China? Not to forget, unlike today, industrial heartland of India lied in UP and Bengal both very close to Chinese airbases in Tibet and so in a matter of time, chinese could have destroyed our industries, pulverizing us completely.
USA as I said is also a cobra but it helped us during freedom movement and 1962( even if marginally) unlike USSR so when we compare them, we should keep this in mind.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I don't know how deep India and Russia military relations are? I cannot find one example
Of Russia assisting India during a war bay of Bengal is claimed by Russia to be a routine
Sub tour during 1971 war. India did not assist Russia during Afghanistan invasion. Even
More than USA or Russia India has deeper military relations with Israel. Kargil war and
Sar satellites,phalcon awac some good examples.

 

[jmj_overlord]

I don't know how deep India and Russia military relations are? I cannot find one example
Of Russia assisting India during a war bay of Bengal is claimed by Russia to be a routine
Sub tour during 1971 war. India did not assist Russia during Afghanistan invasion. Even
More than USA or Russia India has deeper military relations with Israel. Kargil war and
Sar satellites,phalcon awac some good examples.

india has good military relations with israel. But israel being a US ally, just in case a situation like as in the past occurs(maybe a war) during the present time and US imposes sanctions against India.......will israel succumb to US pressure or will help us like during kargil war ?

 

[prohumanity]

What I meant from degenerate culture is: (1) Killing a 16 year old girl(classmate) by 17 year old boy because she refused to prom with her.
(2) recurrent school shootings by high school kids to kill their own schoolmates with deadly weapons.(3) a woman drowning her own babies so that she can go and live her new boyfriend.(4) Acceptance of carpet bombing on other countries because oil/gas is needed to keep Hummers and trucks moving.
(5)teenage pregnancies by teens to teach "parents a lesson"(6) Marijuana legalization so that a billion dollar profit making industry can be created as people found out cigarettes are bad and don't buy them (7) creating civil war and strife in opposing nations and having no feelings for thousands of deaths due to this. (8) choking opposing nations economies with sanctions leading to food shortage and thus, murder of thousands of human beings.
I can give 789 more examples .Your darling West is just greedy,inhumane and selfish...BUT rich materially. Bankrupt spiritually.
AND..by the way...spying on its own citizens without letting them know that phones,e mails etc are being monitored.

 

[Ajesh]

I being an indian like Russia because Unlike USA Russia has ideals , whether right or wrong, thats debatable but it has ideals and principles which the Americans lack. America supports Pakistan, is against it, supported Mujhahideen, and then went against it and so on. It is just not a dependable entity.

 

[mikhail]

Why are so many people liking Russia ?

It's quite simple Singh saab,the common DFI Indians are still in love with Russia

 

[mikhail]

Depends on the way questions are framed.

Would you like to emigrate to USA ? Yes
Would you like to emigrate to Russia ? No
Do you prefer capitalism ? Yes
Do you prefer communism ? No
Do you prefer Russia or USA ?

==

As a whole I think Indians have a natural affinity towards Anglo-Saxon countries. Russia is a good srategic friend.

Sir,given a chance i would love to immigrate to Russia but then again i have always been quite biased towards the Russkies

 

[W.G.Ewald]

I have been thinking of a question involving "alternate history", specifically what if it was Imperial Russia rather than British East India that entered the subcontinent in 1612 and Russia rather than British Raj that ruled in India from 1757 to 1947? What would Indian society be like today? Russia as victor in Crimean War and against Japan in 1905 would have to be assumed, I think.

 

[Kaalapani]

I have been thinking of a question involving "alternate history", specifically what if it was Imperial Russia rather than British East India that entered the subcontinent in 1612 and Russia rather than British Raj that ruled in India from 1757 to 1947? What would Indian society be like today? Russia as victor in Crimean War and against Japan in 1905 would have to be assumed, I think.

Exactly .

 

[TrueSpirit1]

We have to take care of our own interests. When I say I am pro US, it means we can gain from a close relationship with the US in the medium term. We can get investments, technology and I mean civilian tech in industry which can directly help in defence,

India shares a far greater composite relationship with the US than with Russia. Far greater people to people contact with the US. Far greater institutional convergence. In the Indo-Pacific,shared perception of threat.

Russia apart from supplying weapons has nothing going for it. Even we are tired of the Russians in their supply of weapons and looking for more sources. It is firmly with China against the US. Russia too follows what suits its interest and won't do India's bidding if it doesn't suit it.

Putin for long has been wanting to start selling arms to Pak. It may be to push India into more deals with it to not do so.

Nobody has a halo in international relations. Everyone guards their own. We have to ours. My only point is that we can get a lot going for us if we play it well to get the US invest in us.

Russia can provide us complete energy security for next several centuries, provided an India-China-Russia detente can be formed (tricky part). If USA pivot is rendered out of equation, the level of mistrust between the India & China can be curtailed to a great extent. Not sure, if USA or its proxies/satellite states can do the same for us. The best than US can done so far is becoming energy-independent (very recently) but still its meddling in Gulf & Afro-Asia has not lessened one bit.

You can go back to India's Tibet policy in the 1950's & CIA collusion episodes' to understand this aspect better. Sleeping with China' enemy for getting little-to-nothing in return was not the most prudent of policies.

In fact, it was USA due to which China is where it is or else USSR would have contained China for perpetuity. If you think from perspective of "counterfactual history", USA has been the proverbial nemesis for us from the creation of Pakistan to nuke & delivery systems transfers to Pakis, to creation of Mujahid & Talibani extremism in India's backyard to fomenting all the trouble in the NE states, USA alone is single-handedly responsible.

 

[Pratap]

@TrueSpirit1

In fact, it was USA due to which China is where it is or else USSR would have contained China for perpetuity. If you think from perspective of "counterfactual history", USA has been the proverbial nemesis for us from the creation of Pakistan to nuke & delivery systems transfers to Pakis, to creation of Mujahid & Talibani extremism in India's backyard to fomenting all the trouble in the NE states, USA alone is single-handedly responsible.

USSR was an artificial entity and it containing China is a joke. China built its nuke bomb by 63 and had a much larger industrial potential .
USA or Britain did not create Pakistan, it was Islamic refusal to live with polytheist Hindus that was culprit, British would not have made it if Congress did not approve in 1946, blaming british for partition is where Hindu nationalists and secular fanatics come together.
Read about violence of 1950 in East Bengal and then talk about USA propping up Mujahideens, they were always there, muslims are fanatic, full of hatred but they have a cause unlike Indians and so when Soviets started brutality in Afghanistan, it was inevitable that they would make jehadis.
USA did ignore nuke transfer to Pak by China but then that is easily matched by USSR supplying arms to China in early 50s.
NE states are fanatic christians and so they want separation, you might imagine Hindi NE bhai bhai but they do not and again there should be limit to conspiracy. US was not there when Syrian christians betrayed the king of Calicut and asked help from Vasco De Gama.

Finally, USA is responsible for Indians living in free country, if it had not dismantled British empire and had promised aid to British in case of their war with India, we would have still been ruled by British till today.
You can live in your dream of "SC Bose freeing India or Indian army was rebellious" thing. If British could defeat Germans and Japanese, to think that they feared Indians who had zero military of their own is nohing but nationalistic stupidity.

You know I enjoy debates done in civil manner so feel free to refute me without abusing as I have touched raw nerves of Indians by telling the truth.

 

[Kaalapani]

USSR was an artificial entity and it containing China is a joke. China built its nuke bomb by 63 and had a much larger industrial potential .
USA or Britain did not create Pakistan, it was Islamic refusal to live with polytheist Hindus that was culprit, British would not have made it if Congress did not approve in 1946, blaming british for partition is where Hindu nationalists and secular fanatics come together.
Read about violence of 1950 in East Bengal and then talk about USA propping up Mujahideens, they were always there, muslims are fanatic, full of hatred but they have a cause unlike Indians and so when Soviets started brutality in Afghanistan, it was inevitable that they would make jehadis.
USA did ignore nuke transfer to Pak by China but then that is easily matched by USSR supplying arms to China in early 50s.
NE states are fanatic christians and so they want separation, you might imagine Hindi NE bhai bhai but they do not and again there should be limit to conspiracy. US was not there when Syrian christians betrayed the king of Calicut and asked help from Vasco De Gama.

Finally, USA is responsible for Indians living in free country, if it had not dismantled British empire and had promised aid to British in case of their war with India, we would have still been ruled by British till today.

@pmitra check this guy is duplicate account of Happy

 

[Pratap]

I have been thinking of a question involving "alternate history", specifically what if it was Imperial Russia rather than British East India that entered the subcontinent in 1612 and Russia rather than British Raj that ruled in India from 1757 to 1947? What would Indian society be like today? Russia as victor in Crimean War and against Japan in 1905 would have to be assumed, I think.

Indians would have spoken Russian then and even after freedom , There would have been no India, 20 different nations.

 

[Pratap]

@pmitra check this guy is duplicate account of Happy

Not at all, I am one who abused happy. You guys are hilarious.

Check my posting history, I picked up fight with happy and we both were warned to ignore each other.
BTW, this forum allows a man to return with new account.

 

[Kaalapani]

Not at all, I am one who abused happy. You guys are hilarious.

Check my posting history, I picked up fight with happy and we both were warned to ignore each other.
BTW, this forum allows a man to return with new account.

I think you are crossing few limits be careful.

 

[Pratap]

I think you are crossing few limits be careful.

I have not abused anyone, do not insult anyone and so where I am crossing limits? Not praising Russia is a crime? Bashing west for sake of inferiority complex is impartiality?

 

[Kaalapani]

I have not abused anyone, do not insult anyone and so where I am crossing limits? Not praising Russia is a crime? Bashing west for sake of inferiority complex is impartiality?

You are calling India artificial entity and praising islamic Extremism.Trying to justify terrorism.so.