US forces had orders to target Indian Army in 1971

[sayareakd]

thanks Rahul-M, this link is interesting,

Office of the Historian - Historical Documents - Foreign Relations of the United States, 1969–1976, Volume XI, South Asia Crisis, 1971 - South Asia Crisis, 1971

 

[Adux]

Mesiah

A six-page note prepared by India's foreign ministry holds then American president Richard Nixon responsible for the pro-Pakistan tilt during India's 1971 war with her neighbour.

"The assessment of our embassy reveal (sic) that the decision to brand India as an 'aggressor' and to send the 7th Fleet to the Bay of Bengal was taken personally by Nixon," says the note. The note further says, the Indian embassy: "feel (sic) that the bomber force aboard the Enterprise had the US President's authority to undertake bombing of Indian Army's communications, if necessary

US forces had orders to target Indian Army in 1971 - The Times of India

 

[Yusuf]

Nixon worked a deal with china to attack India. Soviets got a whiff of it and amassed 3 divisions on its border with China to make sure china didn't interfere.

 

[nrj]

Thank you Russia for aligning with us against US in '71.

btw also thank you for opposing Indian military action in East Pakistan.

It takes a lady like Indira Gandhi who did not succumb to anyone's pressure, be it USSR or US.

 

[pmaitra]

btw also thank you for opposing Indian military action in East Pakistan.

Was that a typo?

 

[nrj]

Was that a typo?

No.

Russia didn't like anyone else re-drawing maps in asia. They opposed such unilateral action. I believe this was posted sometime back.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

This incident led to the 1974 smiling Buddha test. Some would say it was China but this may have been the catalyst since China already had nuclear weapons for a decade before smiling buddha.

 

[sayareakd]

interesting document

246. Central Intelligence Agency Intelligence Information Cable

6 December 1971

SUBJECT
Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi's Briefing [less than 1 line of source text not declassified] on the IndoPakistani War

2. As far as China is concerned, said the Prime Minister, she had expected it to take a more balanced view, even though Chinese support to Pakistan in the United Nations was a foregone conclusion. The Prime Minister stated that she hopes the Chinese do not intervene physically in the North; she noted, however, that the Soviets have warned her that the Chinese are still able to "rattle the sword" in Ladakh and Chumbi areas. If they should do so, she said, the Soviets have promised to counter-balance any such action.

Office of the Historian - Historical Documents - Foreign Relations of the United States, 1969–1976, Volume XI, South Asia Crisis, 1971 - Document 246

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I doubt the validity of these reports Soviet union supported the creation of Bagladesh in the UN.


http://defenceforumindia.com/military-history/5943-1971-war-how-us-tried-corner-india-7.html

POST#62

 

[pmaitra]

No.

Russia didn't like anyone else re-drawing maps in asia. They opposed such unilateral action. I believe this was posted sometime back.

AFAIK, USSR supported Indian military action in East Pakistan and moreover, stopped USA and PRC for intervening and increased weapons supply to India. Once Indian military action was over, USSR recognised independent Bangladesh and not only that, they got the whole Warsaw Pact to recognise independent Bangladesh.

What are your sources?

 

[nrj]

This incident led to the 1974 smiling Buddha test. Some would say it was China but this may have been the catalyst since China already had nuclear weapons for a decade before smiling buddha.

Indians knew about chinese nuclear bomb in advance. The CIA-RAW joint ELINT operations in Himalaya after '64 made it clear that Russia was helping without any hesitation to complete chinese nuclear program.

Afterwards US succeeded in developing high resolution SAR imaging satellites which could tap chinese activity without physical operations like in himalaya hence no longer needed India.

With stand-off in '71, India buried hatchet of suspicion on Russia & confronted US. 1974 test was most important & very timed opportunity because of growing hostility with US while asia was heating up and not to forget Russia had already armed China with nuke development.

--

AFAIK, USSR supported Indian military action in East Pakistan and moreover, stopped USA and PRC for intervening and increased weapons supply to India. Once Indian military action was over, USSR recognised independent Bangladesh and not only that, they got the whole Warsaw Pact to recognise independent Bangladesh.

What are your sources?

Thats true.

But there was Russsian opposition before war. After the military action was triggered, Russia came in open support because it could not risk US supported Iran/Pak war against India. Nixon by that time directed china to help Pakistan with arms while asking Iran to send supply & fighters to Pak. Source was posted sometime back. I will get it to you once I search it. This was one of the reason which led to both sides signing Friendship & co-operation treaty in '71.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

CROSS POSTED

1971 India Pakistan War: Role of Russia, China, America and Britain | The World Reporter: News Opinion and Analysis

Americans returned and couldn't do anything. Soviet Union had also threatened China that, if they ever opened a front against India on its border, they will receive a tough response from North.

The war ended with the surrender of Pakistani army as they missed American help due to quick Russians who blocked both America and China from preventing India to advance. With this, a new country named Bangladesh was formed, which was recognized by the whole world and by Pakistan next year on Shimla Agreement.

Source: 1971 India Pakistan War: Role of Russia, China, America and Britain | The World Reporter: News Opinion and Analysis 1971 India Pakistan War: Role of Russia, China, America and Britain | The World Reporter: News Opinion and Analysis

 

[Adux]

Indians knew about chinese nuclear bomb in advance. The CIA-RAW joint ELINT operations in Himalaya after '64 made it clear that Russia was helping without any hesitation to complete chinese nuclear program.

Afterwards US succeeded in developing high resolution SAR imaging satellites which could tap chinese activity without physical operations like in himalaya hence no longer needed India.

With stand-off in '71, India buried hatchet of suspicion on Russia & confronted US. 1974 test was most important & very timed opportunity because of growing hostility with US while asia was heating up and not to forget Russia had already armed China with nuke development

Nrj,

I think you are analysis is a bit flawed here. There is a reason why the 1964 Chinese ally Soviet Union became a Chinese foe in 1971, So what happened in the span of 7 years? Why did the Soviets agree to raise ante with the Chinese, to physically stopping them from confronting India. The reason is 1969 Soviet-China border conflict. Sino–Soviet border conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is why India buried the hatchet, this is the reason for Soviet Support. Question is, The Soviets, Americans, Russians, Chinese, Pakistani's all seem very pratical and rational, while I see most Indians still supporting the Russians when they are fvcking us over for the Chinese. And people still harp about American support to Pakistan(when they are themselves being fvcked by them) and their past misdeeds.

If Indians were intelligent, they wouldnt care about the past, and only take lessons learnt from it. That is how we should be.


Americans left India for many reasons,
1. India was not ready to confront the chinese threat seriously , you could even say that now
2. We may be India focused, US isnt. There is a reason for them why CENTO existed
3. When Soviets-Chinese were fighting, Soviets are Americans biggest threat, why wouldnt they want to side with Chinese
4. Indians were never really serious about Tibet
5. Indians were never serious about Socialism or Communism
6. And our seriously atrocious moral grandstanding, V.K.Krishna Menon types, I cant stand that idiot.
7. We are not even ready to fight our own wars, nor are we ready to support anyone with anything real, just farts mostly. Why should people give you value?
8. Ask yourself this, after all the Soviet Support for us in 1971? What did we do for them in Afghanistan? Ziltch. We could have made it easier for them, by putting pressure on Pakistan, our arch enemy!

What is that we offer?

 

[nrj]

Nrj,

I think you are analysis is a bit flawed here. There is a reason why the 1964 Chinese ally Soviet Union became a Chinese foe in 1971, So what happened in the span of 7 years? Why did the Soviets agree to raise ante with the Chinese, to physically stopping them from confronting India. The reason is 1969 Soviet-China border conflict. Sino–Soviet border conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is why India buried the hatchet, this is the reason for Soviet Support. Question is, The Soviets, Americans, Russians, Chinese, Pakistani's all seem very pratical and rational, while I see most Indians still supporting the Russians when they are fvcking us over for the Chinese. And people still harp about American support to Pakistan(when they are themselves being fvcked by them) and their past misdeeds.

If Indians were intelligent, they wouldnt care about the past, and only take lessons learnt from it. That is how we should be.

Yes I did not mention but Sino-soviet split played a vital role. Also change in soviet leadership leading to Russia advocating its neutral role in SA & Tashkant pact hurt Indian posture in unprecedented magnitude. Sino-soviet conflict also made US to get close to China. Russians have always played cunning with us. It is said that the food aid provided by russians to India during drought of '63-'66 was of far worse in quality than that of US provided us. Its different matter that later in exchange US wanted Indian political support for vietnam war.

Americans left India for many reasons,
1. India was not ready to confront the chinese threat seriously , you could even say that now
2. We may be India focused, US isnt. There is a reason for them why CENTO existed
3. When Soviets-Chinese were fighting, Soviets are Americans biggest threat, why wouldnt they want to side with Chinese
4. Indians were never really serious about Tibet
5. Indians were never serious about Socialism or Communism
6. And our seriously atrocious moral grandstanding, V.K.Krishna Menon types, I cant stand that idiot.
7. We are not even ready to fight our own wars, nor are we ready to support anyone with anything real, just farts mostly. Why should people give you value?
8. Ask yourself this, after all the Soviet Support for us in 1971? What did we do for them in Afghanistan? Ziltch. We could have made it easier for them, by putting pressure on Pakistan, our arch enemy!

What is that we offer?

Agreed. If I may add in last point, we didn't even support Russia in Georgia war.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

In 1962 Kennedy offered to airlift weaponry to India against China but some say Nehru rejected the offer??

 

[nitesh]

Have you heard this?

Nations don't have friends, they have interests.

This pretty much nails the discussion, in 1971 it was in US interest to save the genocidal regime of pakis (little odd though, how come freedom loving loving America supports the genocidal pakis). They tried there level best to do it. Fortunately they were unsuccessful, and we are seeing an independent Bangladesh.

But I agree with others who say let's forget the past, and move ahead to an extent. No we should never forget the history as a nation. We should be careful in forming an alliance.

 

[Yusuf]

In 1962 Kennedy offered to airlift weaponry to India against China but some say Nehru rejected the offer??

Nehru wanted fighter aircrafts. It was denied.

 

[pmaitra]

Nrj,

I think you are analysis is a bit flawed here. There is a reason why the 1964 Chinese ally Soviet Union became a Chinese foe in 1971, So what happened in the span of 7 years? Why did the Soviets agree to raise ante with the Chinese, to physically stopping them from confronting India. The reason is 1969 Soviet-China border conflict. Sino–Soviet border conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think your dates are flawed here. Sino-Soviet split happened in 1961 while in reality the cracks started to emerge since 1956.

Therefore, in 1962, USSR was not an ally of PRC; and neither in 1964.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Nehru wanted fighter aircrafts. It was denied.

From what I have heard the offer was mostly artillery but long range latest artillery at that time.

 

[Tshering22]

You are running away my friend!

1)USA can't declare war on every nation it hates, including Palestine, especially since most middle east countries support it.

If it truly hated Palestine, Palestine would have ceased to exist no matter how much the Islamic world wails and bawls. So put on your thinking cap and think again regarding what you said, mate.

2)They don't recognise Kashmir as Indian territory, only as disputed territory!

EXACTLY THAT! Make something as imaginary "disputed" between two states, then support one and arm another. That's what is called foreign policy and weapons profiteering. My friend, you've much to learn in this area.

3)Nuclear North Korea could mean disaster, besides UN will not vote against it in the first place

Remind me when was the last time US gave a damn about UN resolutions....

4) Germans , I don't think Europe will allow the Germans to re-group as before, IMO those days are way back in the PAST.

NATO's dark side that idealists don't want to see and the curious-yet-ignorant never get to see. Germany is virtually in a golden cage by NATO countries. Think about it; do you seriously think Germans can't develop something like or better than F-22, Minuteman ICBMs or THAAD? 80 years ago, they had the technology what US had in early 80s.

Even if Nazi supporters vanish today, US will never allow Germany to be independent; simply because Germans will overshoot US in a matter of less than a decade if left alone.

What about the current Indo-US relations. Will they be able acknowledge and take action against Pukistan's so called non-state actors, will they stop selling sensitive arms(like Haroon missiles, meant for Taliban) to Pukestan and ask us to buy Aegis system.

No they won't. Hillary will say some words, Obambam will shout some anti-Paki words; and our ministers will get their ego satisfied and forget the real implicit meaning of it. Think about it; if Pakistan vanished today and POK returned to us without any problems, what would happen to our already growing economy? At least 4% more growth will automatically channelize into focus and ALL the military focus will be on CCP--- US's largest economic partner. You know what that means? CCP has big money and big guns, but not big will in a war. And the yanks and the Reds know it well. That's why they rely on media warfare.

What will their response be towards China, if hostilities brake between India and China.

If China screws up, they're dead. So do the math and see for yourself.

Also how long will Indo-Us marriage last ?

There's no marriage; it is just strategic partnership where both USA and we are getting benefits now.