Stand-Off Between Indian, Chinese Troops; September 2015

[Anikastha]

Nathula in 1987. 400 Chinese troops were killed due to the murderous Indian artillery fire which destroyed dozens of Chinese bunkers, pillboxes, gun positions and headquarters. The Chinese thought enough was enough and begged for a ceasefire.

Our artillery OPs did a fantastic job by directing accurate fire from mountain tops like Camel's Hump which dominated the entire area by fire and observation.

Were manage to kill some chinks there since we had an advantage: higher position...I think it would be bit difficult for our forces because these retards are backed heavily by armour, sams ,surface to surface missiles and heavy guns( guns which we use during kargil to pound PA which was enjoying picnic over there)

 

[Blackwater]

.Looks something interesting ...No idea why no media cover this issue

Because they are busy in inderani mukerjee ass

 

[bengalraider]

See the Chinese troops making monkeys out of themselves in the video below. LoL! Being chased away by Indian troops. The Chinese are acting like gays. Check it out......


These turds were even warned by their president 'Eleven Xingping' recently to improve their standard of training as it has hit new lows! And that's quite discernible in this video!

The Problem with the Chinese is that most of these men are "Han" Chinese who have been posted to Tibet.They see a deployment to the borders as simply a job ,for them it is not home, they do not feel for the land and the people ,they never will. For the Ladhakis, Dogras,Sikhs, Gurkhas and others deployed on our borders and the ITBP men it's the opposite they feel the soil and see the Ladhakis as their own people . This feeling of belonging makes a hell of a difference in the way one fights.
The Pakistanis on the other hand are quite the opposite there we have "sons of the soil" facing "sons of the soil".

I personally feel the PLA will try to start a short vicious war within the next few years to try and wrest some territory from us before our economy truly matures and our military buildup starts to build strength. Never forget that while we have the luxury of devoting almost all our forces to a fight on our eastern border the Chinese do not have that advantage. They understand that a future Sino-Indian conflict will be bloody and will have grave repercussions for them at home and abroad. The prospect of an energized Taiwan,Vietnam and Japan openly defying the writ of a weakened and bloodied China is what haunts them most.
For all the military buildup in Tibet we have some home ground advantages
1) Our air force shall be able to fly with full loads compared to the PLAAF which shall have to operate from high altitude bases with minimal combat loads.
2) The locals in both disputed regions(Arunachal and Ladakh) are completely Pro India while the Tibetans are not, the role the SFF shall ply in such a conflict shall be decisive.
3) As of now we hold the advantage in the IOR and are in a place to impose it.
4) Local and International opinion( with the notable exception of the Pakistanis) remains in favor of India. the Entire west and Russia would love us if we managed to contain and defeat any Chinese adventurism. the Prospect of an emboldened PLA using the morale gained after a victory in India to physically capture the Spratleys, Scarborough Shoals,Paracel islands,Zhenbao and Taiwan scares the Russians and the Americans alike.

 

[amoy]

The watch tower is being built on the Chinese side of the LoC, close to the mutually-accepted patrolling line.

Don't try to distort the fact.

 

[DingDong]

The watch tower is being built on the Chinese side of the LoC, close to the mutually-accepted patrolling line.

Don't try to distort the fact.

Neither side will allow the other side any advantage. Hence construction of any structure is a big NO.

 

[hit&run]

Neither side will allow the other side any advantage. Hence construction of any structure is a big NO.

He doesn't know how things work on borders like that. He only knows China is big and can do anything to upgrade its side of the border. This is what they have been doing BTW. And such way of thinking is justified to Chinese posters as Indian reaction has been always meek and cowardly that it is now mainstreamed into them.

On the other side, every time when India tries to improve infrastructure we are told off and their propagandist military professionals on different forums call it provocation.

We have been crying all the time to be assertive for many years now but Indians understand only in paradoxes. Either they call us warmongers or preach us restrain. This is what happen when you act cowardly for so many years that every thing is permissible as it is usual facing each other but not stand off.

Chinese are grabbing your land inch by inch and yet we do not have one single minded policy to confront this bully.

 

[SajeevJino]

The watch tower is being built on the Chinese side of the LoC, close to the mutually-accepted patrolling line.

Don't try to distort the fact.

Indian media quoted that it was built inside the Indian Land ..!! that's why our forces destroys your watching hut

There's no way of Indian Soldiers cross the border and destroys your construction, before destroying your piece our Army field Commanders messaged about Flag meeting, Chinese officials didn't came, then only our team took down your construction

Even still now no info about the third proposed flag meet about the incident .. means China once again skipped the meet

 

[amoy]

Indian media quoted that it was built inside the Indian Land ..!! that's why our forces destroys your watching hut

There's no way of Indian Soldiers cross the border and destroys your construction, before destroying your piece our Army field Commanders messaged about Flag meeting, Chinese officials didn't came, then only our team took down your construction

Even still now no info about the third proposed flag meet about the incident .. means China once again skipped the meet

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman denies there's even a standoff, saying "everythin's normal."

So what is true? Another Indian media fuss? Or PLA hawks suddenly became pushovers in front of Indian dismantling the watch tower?


~~Still waters run deep. ~~from my MiPad using tapatalk

 

[rohit.gr77]

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman denies there's even a standoff, saying "everythin's normal."

So what is true? Another Indian media fuss? Or PLA hawks suddenly became pushovers in front of Indian dismantling the watch tower?


~~Still waters run deep. ~~from my MiPad using tapatalk

That statement from your Foreign Ministry is just a face saving gesture.
As far as media fuss is concerned, Indian media does not run on government propaganda unlike state controlled media in CCP China.

 

[SajeevJino]

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman denies there's even a standoff, saying "everythin's normal."

So what is true? Another Indian media fuss? Or PLA hawks suddenly became pushovers in front of Indian dismantling the watch tower?

~~Still waters run deep. ~~from my MiPad using tapatalk

From our side, Army didn't denied the Media statement, and It's clear IA and ITBP destroys a Chinese structure inside Indian Land, and they retrieved Camera's and some other equipments

lets wait we can get more info about this in coming days

 

[Rushil51]

Hmmm lot of confusion going around here

 

[SajeevJino]

.
India, China diffuse tensions at Burtse in Ladakh after flag meetings

India and China held flag meetings along the line of actual control in Ladakh on Tuesday afternoon to diffuse tensions at the high-altitude Burtse region, where a military stand-off had erupted on Friday evening after Indian troops demolished a watchtower-like structure built by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) there.

The flag meetings between the rival commanders were held at the border personnel meeting (BPM) points at Daulat Beg Oldi and Chushul from 3pm to 5pm, with the two sides deciding to "maintain peace", said sources.

As earlier reported by TOI, the two sides on Monday had somewhat moved back their troops from their forward positions at the incident site located at an altitude of 17,000 feet in the Depsang plains. Both sides had earlier rushed additional troops to the Burtse area after Indian soldiers on Friday evening had demolished the watchtower, which consisted of a camera and solar-panel mounted on a hut's roof, after spotting it on the "border patrolling line".

Though both sides send patrols to this line as per their "perception" of where the un-demarcated LAC lies, the mutually-accepted principle is that no new construction should come up in the disputed stretches.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-after-flag-meetings/articleshow/48974023.cms

@amoy check it out

 

[Sylex21]

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman denies there's even a standoff, saying "everythin's normal."

So what is true? Another Indian media fuss? Or PLA hawks suddenly became pushovers in front of Indian dismantling the watch tower?

I had heard from a source that the deal with the outpost was that both sides had made an agreement not to build any permanent structures within some number of kilometers of the boarder. I highly doubt the Chinese have become push overs or anything like that. I haven't had time to research the deal I mentioned, but you could google it to confirm if interested in the details.

I've had a hard time understanding why the Chinese side hasn't wanted to settle the boarder with India. I was curious if you could provide some perspective from the Chinese side. I'm curious if it is just so that China can use it as leverage in case India becomes too pro American, if it is something to do with a city on the Indian side currently that the next Dali Lama could claim to be born in, or if it's mutual on both sides, or some hang up on India's part.

 

[pmaitra]

The PLA is creeping and looking for every opportunity to set up structures. India should pro-actively dismantle any construction by the PLA. They must not be trusted for one second.

 

[amoy]

I had heard from a source that the deal with the outpost was that both sides had made an agreement not to build any permanent structures within some number of kilometers of the boarder. I highly doubt the Chinese have become push overs or anything like that. I haven't had time to research the deal I mentioned, but you could google it to confirm if interested in the details.

I've had a hard time understanding why the Chinese side hasn't wanted to settle the boarder with India. I was curious if you could provide some perspective from the Chinese side. I'm curious if it is just so that China can use it as leverage in case India becomes too pro American, if it is something to do with a city on the Indian side currently that the next Dali Lama could claim to be born in, or if it's mutual on both sides, or some hang up on India's part.

Below Macartney–MacDonald Line shall help u understand, contrary to what most Indian jingoists claim --

William Johnson, a civil servant with the Survey of India proposed the "Johnson Line" in 1865, which put Aksai Chin in Kashmir. In 1893, Hung Ta-chen, a senior Chinese official at Kashgar, handed a map of the boundary proposed by China to George Macartney, the British consul-general at Kashgar.[1] This boundary placed the Lingzi Tang plains, which are south of the Laktsang range, in India, and Aksai Chin proper, which is north of the Laktsang range, in China. Macartney agreed with the proposal and forwarded it to the British Indian government.[2] The British presented this line, known as the Macartney–MacDonald line, to the Chinese in a note by Sir Claude MacDonald.[2] The Qing government did not respond to the note, and the British took that as Chinese acquiescence. Although no official boundary had ever been negotiated, China believed that this had been the accepted boundary.[2][3] The Macartney–MacDonald Line had been tacitly accepted by China [3] as the boundary until Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai confirmed the new Chinese claim line to his Indian counterpart, Jawaharlal Nehru in 1959.

The Macartney–MacDonald Line is a partial basis of the Sino-Pakistan Agreement. It has been suggested that a solution to the Sino-Indian border dispute could also be based on the Macartney–MacDonald Line.[3][4]

Use it as an leverage in case India becomes too pro American? How? Did it ever stop India from being pro Soviet Union?

Not sure about the next Dalai Lama. But Tsangyang Gyotso one of greatest Chinese poets, and the 6th Dalai Lama was born in India occupied Tawang.

 

[Sylex21]

Below Macartney–MacDonald Line shall help u understand, contrary to what most Indian jingoists claim --

Use it as an leverage in case India becomes too pro American? How? Did it ever stop India from being pro Soviet Union?

Not sure about the next Dalai Lama. But Tsangyang Gyotso one of greatest Chinese poets, and the 6th Dalai Lama was born in India occupied Tawang.

Ok I've heard Tawang mentioned as something China is interested in before, so it has to do with a Dali Lama being born there. I just noticed the Tawang area is pretty small, the town only having 10,000 people and the entire district being 49,000. So it seems less significant to India. Is China really that worried about a new Dali Lama from Tawang?

I didn't understand your point about the lines. I know that Tibet agreed to the Macartney-MacDonald line and I'm not really sure how China had anything to do with it, as Tibet was an independent nation at the time. But that's for another discussion. So the pink line you mentioned, is that what Chinese forces control today?

If that is the case, has the Indian side not been willing to just let the international boarder stand where the Line of Control is today? I'm trying to understand why they haven't been able to work out a compromise in all this time, as it seems to be one of the major causes of irritation between India and China, which gives India a more hostile tilt against China than it really needs to be.

As far as using it as leverage. You can't really compare the China of the time of the Soviet Union, with the current super power China. So you don't think it has as much to do with being a tool China can use to put pressure on India, if it feels India is being too pro-American?

 

[amoy]

@Sylex21 though not interested in further discussion with u on this I'd make a quick sum-up

1) The pretext of an independent Tibet gives no ground to nego. By your logic India even isn't a nego counterpart. Historically there was no single entity called India but rather various independent kingdoms Ladakh, Kashmir, Dorga etc..

2）how would Dalai Lama become a concern in the border spat? Theoretically it can reincarnate everywhere like the incumbent fm Qinghai.

3) Those lines form the basis for talks.

4) How would it leverage India in its overrated relations with US?

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

 

[Sylex21]

@Sylex21 though not interested in further discussion with u on this I'd make a quick sum-up

1) The pretext of an independent Tibet gives no ground to nego. By your logic India even isn't a nego counterpart. Historically there was no single entity called India but rather various independent kingdoms Ladakh, Kashmir, Dorga etc..

2）how would Dalai Lama become a concern in the border spat? Theoretically it can reincarnate everywhere like the incumbent fm Qinghai.

3) Those lines form the basis for talks.

4) How would it leverage India in its overrated relations with US?

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

Let's drop the side issues for a moment. Why do you think from a Chinese perspective, they have not come to a boarder agreement in so long? The perception in India is that China doesn't want a boarder deal so it can retain leverage with India by stirring up problems on the boarder or because it wants to see if India grows economically strong over the next few decades, so it can negotiate from a stronger hand if it does not.

I'm trying to better understand what people in China think.

 

[amoy]

Let's drop the side issues for a moment. Why do you think from a Chinese perspective, they have not come to a boarder agreement in so long? The perception in India is that China doesn't want a boarder deal so it can retain leverage with India by stirring up problems on the boarder or because it wants to see if India grows economically strong over the next few decades, so it can negotiate from a stronger hand if it does not.

I'm trying to better understand what people in China think.

Frankly it's me who doesn't get the point u try to make.

On the contrary, Chinese "stirring up problems" as u accused, would LOGICALLY further push India away (possibly to US) instead of leveraging... Hence counterproductive isn't it?

Again any deal entails ...possibly trade-offs or mutual compromises. But all yours seems to hinge on dim hope of unilateral compromises by China.

India / GoI has always painted India as a 1962 victim. But more and more declassified docs show India as an ill-prepared aggressor back then.

How will an economically stronger India justify its border position?

 

[Yumdoot]

How will an economically stronger India justify its border position?

Your guess is as good as mine .